My Scrambler Substitute

As many of the Mid-Atlantic Scrambler crowd know I built my 81 Scrambler for the beaches and will not take it in the woods/rocks to trail ride (there are no trees on the beach!). Late last fall I bought a substitute to build as my trail rig; a 1969 Jeep Commando.





Since then I have joined a Commando site and have begun posting progress reports and pictures (and many questions) on that site.

However, several of you have asked about the project and how it is going so I am going to post the link to the "Blue Goose" build here.

http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1550839/an/0/page/0#Post1550839

I will update this post from time to time to let you know how it is going.

One thing I have found very surprising is the similarities between the Commando and the Scrambler.
My Commando is the Kaiser version or C101 (101" wheelbase). The AMC version has a 104" wheelbase like the Scrambler but was given a Bronco or "bullnose" in an attempt to compete with the Ford Bronco. Like the Scrambler body design, the Bullnose Commandos were not popular and they disappeared within a couple of years (fewer of them than Scramblers).

A lot of the Commando guys trim the lower bodies on the bullnose Commandos and put a CJ front clip on them. The result looks a heck of a lot like a Scrambler.

Richard

Very cool! Hopefully we'll see future installments of this build.

You're doing it just the opposite of me- My Jeepster is the mild/keep it nice rig, my Scrambler is going to be the rock crawler!

Your Jeepster progress looks great!

I brought my Scrambler out of New Mexico and it was pretty much a mint, unmodified 81 (only mod was flush mounted tail lights). So many of the Scramblers in the east and north have severe rust issues I decided I would not cut/modify one it such good shape. All the mods I have done are bolt-on and the Scrambler could be taken
back to stock very easily.

The Commando is a different story. The PO spent a lot of money having new sheetmetal made, repairing rusted areas and a new paint job. It looks pretty good and is solid - just not original. Therefore, I don't feel bad making more mods to it. I got the Bushwacker YJ flares on it yesterday and really like the way it is beginning to look. Once the Dana 44's with 35x12.50's are under it and the 4.3/999/300 drivetrain are in I think it's going to be able to run with the big boys, on road and off.

If it turns out too nice there is always the bullnose partster and the CJ front clip I have...

Make me feel bad...

I bought my Scrambler form the original owner, with all the original paperwork, in almost mint rust free condition. It had 265,000 miles on it though, and looked like it. An anemic 4 cylinder was the first thing to go, and the small block I installed has since pointed out the rest of the weak links. A couple of deer made sure the OE fenders were unusable, and adding a new dash, seats, top, ect made future modifications "less painful". I still wonder if I shouldn't return it to stock, sell it, and find one more suitable to modifying. But then I'd have to deal with rust, ect...so I'm forging ahead. I am considering selling my cherry oem frame so I can buy an AFW frame.

My Jeepster has some rust, unverifiable mileage, and really wasn't worth restoring. But, my wife and I both enjoy car shows, and locally I can enter anything 74 and earlier. So...the Jeepster gets the "Restification", the Scrambler gets the Modification.

I wish my Jeepster rockers looked as good as yours!

Nice, Richard! Looking forward to seeing the end result!

Grantshire said:

The PO spent a lot of money having new sheetmetal made, repairing rusted areas and a new paint job. It looks pretty good and is solid - just not original. Therefore, I don't feel bad making more mods to it....

Click to expand...

That's the same story I have with the first cj8 that I bought...the one that I'm building up bigger.

Grantshire said:

All the mods I have done are bolt-on and the Scrambler could be taken back to stock very easily....

Click to expand...

This is what I'm doing with the other cj8...even though I bought it with a chevy drivetrain (engine, tranny, t/c). It would be pretty easy to get this one back to stock if somebody wanted to.

another commando!

Looks good! I have a 71 commando but it is in really rough shape. My 8 yr old son has claimed it as his though and doesn't want us to part with it. So, I am planning on turning it into my beach/surf buggy. I may have to bug you fellow commando owners for advice cause I think it is going to be a lot of work. Are there any commando sites kinda like this site? Also have you lifted your commandos and if so how? i haven't seem many/any aftermarket parts for them.

tom

i dont have one..but i want one...dont have much to say..guess i am just padding my post count...look out eric

Willys Jeepster

I'm a big fan of Commandos.
Since we're on the Jeepster topic, here is mine of a little older generation....

CJ8LVR said:

I'm a big fan of Commandos.
Since we're on the Jeepster topic, here is mine of a little older generation....

Click to expand...

I love the way that one looks!
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Oh, yeah, and your garage is WAAAAYYY too clean!!!

-Mike W

Looks can be deceiving!

Those pics were taken not too long after we moved into this house. Trust me - there is a lot more junk in there now!

SurfnCJ8 said:

LAre there any commando sites kinda like this site?

tom

Click to expand...

Here's two of them-

http://www.jeepstercommandoclub.com/

http://www.americanjeepsterclub.org/

Both good sites, the first one is the closest to this one, the second one has a great readers rides section and a lot of helpful stuff. I'm a member of both of them, same screen name.

thanks,
you helped me w/ a couple jeepster questions before, but I haven't really done anything to it. The scrambler is the one I drive around in.

I tend to lose focus a little..........I like all this stuff so much that I get a couple project things going, then I get a little done on everything but never spend enough time on the same thing to actually finish it........

guess I could have worse problems than that though

I like Commandos and would love to own one someday.

There's a SWEET Commando build thread on Pirate that I was watching, haven't checked it in a long time though...

Thanks for posting on this one Richard, builds are builds and we love seeing em!

Hey Randy, not trying to make you feel bad and don't think I have not done the same. If you look in my signature you'll see a 62 Willys SW listed. I bought it completely orignial, almost rust free, running, and it was one of the last of the Willys (had some Kaiser parts on it). My goal was/is a modified vehicle (Dana 44's, 4.3, 700R4, custom interier, etc...) but, again, I wanted start with a really nice vehicle. Anyway, i joined the Yahoo Willys Tech group and posted looking for information. When they found out what I was going to do and what I started with they flamed me worse than anything you'll see on Pirate. Needless to say, I don't post there any more (but do monitor the site for the info) and I am careful about how much I say/post on any of the sites where the pure restoration guys hang out.

All of my Jeeps are modifed in some manner, but I rarely do surgery on the sheetmetal and/or frames.

"I'm a big fan of Commandos. Since we're on the Jeepster topic, here is mine of a little older generation...."

I love the early Jeepsters and one of the magazine articles I clipped back in the 70's as a "some day" project was a Jeepster put on a Wagoneer frame. It was done right and was an awesome looking off-road vehicle. Don't have it yet but I do have the 62.

I also have too many projects (Jeep and otherwise). Both the 62 Willys SW and 74 Wagoneer Custom were running vehilces when I brought them home (they were going to be married into one) and are now completely disassembled and under tarps. The 4.3 I had built for the Willys is about to go into the Commando. The 79 Chief move in front (Hey, Smurf is Miss October in the FSJ Calendar!!!) as did the Scrambler and now Commando. The M715 is also waiting.

I will second Randy's suggested Commando sites. The guys at American Jeepster Club on Off-Road.com have been super and are very much like they guys here.

As far as lifts go its the same old story SOA or custom SUA springs. Mine will be lifted and I have been back and forth trying to decide which way I am going to go. After a great deal of study I have decide SOA will be the best for my Commando. I am going to install new spring hangers in front and use YJ springs (1" shorter than Commando springs) but stay stock Commando in back. The front springs on the commandos are 46" but narrower (1 3/4") than even a CJ (2"), the rear are 2 1/2" but really long (56") and offset to the front. From past project building experience I believe wider (2 1/2") spring give a better ride and flex than narrow width springs.

My other alternative was/is to go with custom made Alcans like I did on my Scrambler (I had CJ length, 2 1/2" wide 4" lift springs made). I love the Alcans but figure either way its going to take some engineering. One down side of this latest direction change is I have to go find a Chevy front Dana 44 (they are SOA) instead of using the FSJ Dana 44 I had been saving (SUA). Oh well, I need another axle at home; yeah, right, I have over 20 now!!!

I've been a scrambler admirer and owner for years. I just bought a 71' jeepster. I wasn't going to mention it on this board until I saw this thread. I felt like I had gone to the darkside or something. It's being shipped. I'll post some pics later.

fishdad said:

I've been a scrambler admirer and owner for years. I just bought a 71' jeepster. I wasn't going to mention it on this board until I saw this thread. I felt like I had gone to the darkside or something. It's being shipped. I'll post some pics later.

Click to expand...

Cool! we gotta see some pics! And be sure to check out the two BBS's that I posted links to earlier.

Sounds good fishdad, would love to see some pictures. There are more Commando guys lurking on the Scrambler board than you might think. I am in the early stages of mine but am amazed how much AMC pulled from the Commando platform to the Scrambler (after their initial Ford Bronco nose Commando blunder). Many of the CJ parts and upgrades work for the Commando and their unique styling and short wheelbase make them a cool, capable trail rig.

Update on the "Scrambler Substitute"

The Blue Goose project, my "Scrambler Substitute", took a big leap forward on Saturday. I brought my enclosed trailer loaded with engine, transmission, engine hoist and a bunch of other parts over to Ted Wendel's , ace Jeep builder, house and the fun began...

What is going in the Commando is a hopped up Chevy 4.3 V6, CJ TF999 automatic and CJ Dana 300. I am SOA with identical axles to my Scrambler (narrowed WT FSJ front Dana 44, NT GW centered Dana 44 in back) geared r3.73.

After studying the stock 69 Buick 225 engine frame mounts Ted determined that they could be used with the Chevy engine mounts (70 Chevelle 307 mounts from CarQuest) with a little "massaging". He ground out the crush tubes on both sides; cut about 1.5" off the passenger side; ground the angle taper back in so they did not hit the engine mounts; and installed new crush sleeves (original were real cheezy):



The result is a centered motor that sits about 2" further down in the mounts than a stock 225. It appears more than that (about 3.5") in the pictures because I have a 1.5" body lift. I am SOA so lowering the engine actually helps my center of gravity. Centering the motor also helped clear the Advanced Adapters headers (driver's side would not have cleared otherwise):



I am not impressed with the Advanced Adapters. First off, they were welded wrong; the notches for engine plug clearnace on flanges were upsidedown and Ted had to nick them with his torch and the smooth it out with the grinder. The collector on the passenger side was pinched slightly closed behind the connector.



More in the next post...

When Ted figured out how to use the stock mounts I decided not to push the engine forward. Here is a shot that shows how the engine sets down in the frame with lots of room to spare:



A couple of thing worth noting here. First, notice that the engine actually sits slightly behind the front axle so the front springs are not carrying all the engine weight. Secondly, at this point the TF999 and Dana 300 are in and you can see where the 300 hangs down with stock 300 rotation. Hanging down is relative; I measured the clearance from the bottom of the case to the ground at 19" (and this is without the 35" tires, or maybe 37").

We believe, with some modification, that a stock Commando crossmember will work to support the transmission/transfer case. Another bennefit of not pushing the engine forward is it looks like the 300 twin stick shifter will come up through the stock Dana 20 shifter opening.



You can see we bolted a piece of angle iron across the frame to hold the transmission up while Ted modifies the real crossmember. The angle iron will be used with straps to hold my gas tank in.

We have the high steer tie rod (custom made by Bull Gear, Inc) in as well. The Bull Gear high steer system uses Chevy 1 ton tie rod ends. I cannot get the drag link yet because I do not know where we will put the steering box yet.



Speaking of steering, the body lift may be just enough to give me steering shaft clearnace without having to notch the driver's side engine mount (mine is a 69 and had Ross steering so it does not have the Saginaw clearaned engine mount).

Still have the Chevy hydraboost to adapt and get on along with my Truck Avenger carb, AGR box, Star Shifter for the center console, Super Wagoneer column and a ton of other stuff. I decided to hold off on rewiring until we have everything mounted to the firewall so I can figure out where the best place is for the fuse box.

My engine builder ordered a custom distributor for me today from DUI and a marine fuel pump that will bolt to the block (my engine does not have the holes for a mechanical pump). My engine builder likes to use marine electric fuel pumps mounted in the same location on the block as a mechanical. He says they are very rugged and are puller pumps not pushers like most ohter electric fuel pumps.

All in all, it was a big weekend; Ted and I did not make as much progress as we would have liked but I sure am glad to have the engine, transmission and transfer case in.

BTW, even though we centered the 4.3 there is still plenty of clearance between the transmission and front driveshaft so no worries there.