Shackle lean?

My shackles have always leaned but have been brought back to my attention with the addition of some new ones. Does this seem excessive, or normal? And/or does it mean the spring perches are welded on in the wrong spot?
Also, the new shackles are Daystar, and to me they seem to be too wide. There's almost an 1/8" of extra space between the side plates and the bushings. That was while they were still hanging straight. Hard to see now with them leaning. Anyone else encounter that? I already double checked the part numbers with Daystar.

Hey Randy,

If you noticed on the passenger side, your spring and frame shackle mount arn't lined up. The driver side isn't near as bad. Not sure, but you might be able to loosen up the axle u-bolts and move the springs enough to line everything up. Just a thought.

Don

I have seen that on many Jeeps, including mine. Here's what I found on my Scrambler.

After measuring every way possible, I determined it was because my frame was somehow "pinched" together in the middle. I checked the skid plate which serves as the center crossmember and sure enough the bolts were at the innermost position of the slotted holes. I removed the crossmember (the engine and trans were already out) and the frame actually got closer by 1/8"! I had to spread the rails a bit just to get the crossmember bolted back in. I loosened all my body mounts and spread the frame (I was using a hi-lift gently) and got about 1/4" back, but it still didn't get back to the measurements I got from the frame specs in the owner's manual. My Scrambler has never been wrecked or even used hard, so I don't know how it happens. I can see from the design of the frame and the lack of any central crossmembers, that the natural direction for the frame to "migrate" with the weight of the body is inward. This would cause the springs to be closer together at the back, spreading the front.

My plan to fix this is to build a tubular crossmsmber similar to the AFW unit, with flanges on the inner edges of the mounting surfaces. This will cause the frame, once spread back to stock, to be held in place by the flanges instead of the bolts. The bolts will just hold the crossmember up in position. In turn, the front shackles should line up correctly.

I'll post pics once I get it built, but that might be a while...

mine does the exact same thing, i just thought my frame was a little twisted.

Mine does it too.

Not abnormal just looks weird.

Thanks, good to know it's not just mine.

Randdyzzz, do you remember what the distance is supposed to be at the center crossmember?

This diagram should help. It's measurement N from center of body mount to center of body mount.

thanks, now I'm depressed

I just realized that I am having the same problem. My drivers side leaf spring is catty-whompus this is more than likely the cause of my jeep sitting slightly higher on the passenger side. I'm sure the frame can be straightened and I can brace it some how. At least I know the root cause of this problem because of your post.....thanks

Oops! I fixed the above picture to include the measurements....sorry!

I know this is an old thread, but I want to know the outcome. My '81 also has really bad leaning shackles, and it seams to actually be getting worse over time as the rubber bushings wear. I know that I also have difficulting lining up the bolt holes in my transmission support plate. I also know that the steering is still giving me problems after spend a lot of $$$ trying to correct caster, drag link angles, slop in tie rod ends, alignments, etc.

Randy, did you ever add a brace? Did it fix your leaning shackles? Did it improve your steering?


Edit:
Found this, too...

https://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthread.php?37229-Anyone-ever-used-a-bottle-jack-to-spread-the-frame-rails-for-the-skid-plate-bolts

Would the metal rod that goes under the motor and bolts to the frame at the motor mount locations help to keep the frame in place? No one mentioned it in the thread. If it has been removed (as so many have) then that may contribute to the problem.

If the bushings are new and the bolt going through them is the right diameter it can only be a bent spring hanger or leaf springs that are twisted a little right?

DirtyB said:

Randy, did you ever add a brace? Did it fix your leaning shackles? Did it improve your steering?

Click to expand...

Simple answer- Yes, yes, and Yes.

I fabricated a tubular cross member with flanges like I described. I had to forcibly spread the frame to install it, but once installed it held the frame in the proper position/width. My shackles no longer lean, and I have head it well over 100mph without any instability (still kinda scary, though). But, it tracks perfectly at all speeds, 65mph with cruise on- drives just as well as our Silverado.

You can see the flange here if you look closely-

i really havn't been following but are the spring purch welded on straight? or the spring mounting area is really worn out? i had a center pin break and the pack moved like that... trying to figure out it simply...

Kim Dawson said:

Would the metal rod that goes under the motor and bolts to the frame at the motor mount locations help to keep the frame in place? No one mentioned it in the thread. If it has been removed (as so many have) then that may contribute to the problem.

Click to expand...

Mine is no longer installed, but I had the problem prior to removing it.

Randyzzz said:

Simple answer- Yes, yes, and Yes.

I fabricated a tubular cross member with flanges like I described. I had to forcibly spread the frame to install it, but once installed it held the frame in the proper position/width. My shackles no longer lean, and I have head it well over 100mph without any instability (still kinda scary, though). But, it tracks perfectly at all speeds, 65mph with cruise on- drives just as well as our Silverado.

You can see the flange here if you look closely-

View attachment 44161

Click to expand...

So the lean was because the frame was tweaked just a little? Maybe that is why YJ'S track down the road so much better. Stiffer frame, stiffer skid plate with cone shaped bolts and track bars...

LetchcoreCJ7 said:

So the lean was because the frame was tweaked just a little? Maybe that is why YJ'S track down the road so much better. Stiffer frame, stiffer skid plate with cone shaped bolts and track bars...

Click to expand...

I wouldn't doubt it. My frame is solid as a rock now.

I just took some relatively crude measurements and I'm very excited...

Center of left leaf spring to center of right leaf spring right under the rear spring hangers is approximately 26.5"

Center of leaf spring to center of leaf spring under front axle (or center of perch to center of perch) is approximately 27.5"

Center of leaf spring to center of leaf spring under front shackles is approximately 28.5"

I'm confident that Randy has discovered my problem for me. I hope to get some time to work on it this weekend. I'm not sure exactly how to fix it, but I'm imagining using a jack to spread the frame and then mount a brace just in front of the skid plate. I'm also going to purchase and install that rod under the motor mounts. I don't think that's going to do a whole lot, but putting it back on should only help (I'm assuming there was one there before and the PO took it off; my '84 has one).

So I dropped the skid plate and put a jack between the frame and spread it apart. I was able to to use the original holes in the skid plate when I bolted it back up. I also installed the rod that fits under the motor in between the motor mounts. In the end, I was able to achieve 27.5" inches at the tip of the springs next to the shackles. I have virtually no more shackle lean!!

One of the shackles looks a little twisted, but it's not too bad.

My steering issues seemed a bit better. It's still not as good as something like a modern truck, but it is an improvement. I think I've moved into the "close enough" category. Besides, I don't know what else to do. I'm running 33X12.5X15 tires, so I'm wondering if that makes it a little sloppy. Or maybe I'm keeping to much air pressure in the tire.

Also, these red bushings I got seem to not take up all the space like the black ones did. They are a harder plastic, too. Should I put some washers to fill the gap?

This is interesting because almost every cj I work on the skid plate is really hard to get back on because the frame seems like it needs spread out some. I always have to use something to pry the skid into place so the bolt holes line up.