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Thread: walkerhoundvm's rebuild thread

  1. #1
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    walkerhoundvm's rebuild thread

    Ok, this seems to be the thing to do, and 5 years from now it would be nice to look back and see just how far I've come.

    First I wanted to thank the moderators for having such an awesome site that serves as a huge resource and forum for keeping a lot of people entertained with pictures, stories, and heartaches.

    Let's start with some pictures...First, the old and the new (you decide which one's which, the bike's a year old, the CJ8 is obviously a bit older - an '81; though I've had the bike longer and it has been my primary means of fun and headaches for the past year)



    Next up, the rust that is going to have to be repaired:







    Barely get her home and already she's marking:



    Up next, the first week of work on her!

  2. #2
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    First week's projects

    For the first week, I wanted to start out slow and easy. Took some advice from a few people on the site and picked up a decent tool set, an off-road jack that will hopefully serve me well in the garage and on the trail, some jack stands, and a creeper.

    For the first task, I went after the emergency brake. The PO at least let me know the original was rusted solid, though he had picked up a spare that he never got around to replacing. That came with the Jeep, and it was the first sort of confidence booster I went after.

    The old: the fulcrum mechanism was rusted solid, and the lines were more or less frozen as I later found out as I was trying to release the cable to get the lever out



    I'm pretty good with routine unbolting and swapping out, the only trouble here was trying to get the cable loose. It finally came unhitched at the splitter halfway under the body, and I was able to get the new one in:



    After reattaching the cable at the splitter with a little elbow grease, it was in! A little more elbow grease and foot stomping, and the cables unfroze and we now have working e-brakes!


    OK, that was simple enough, let's try something a little more tough. Remember that nasty leak she developed on the way home? (see pics above). I narrowed it down to the RMS. The leak was coming right behind the shield for the bell housing (just to the right of the exhaust pipe):



    The distributor had just had some work done, but was clean as a whistle. The oil filter was leaking a bit, as was some area just off the side of the oil pan. The valve cover and every inch behind it was dry as a bone. With the amount of oil it was throwing, and from every thing I've read, it had to be the RMS. No problem, there's a ton of information on the web about replacing it in a CJ. Simple, starter off, passenger side body mount off, oil pan off, rear main cap off, replace and work backwards, simple...right? Well notice that exhaust pipe running across the area I need to get to with a good wrench to apply some serious torque. That was a problem.

    Fortunately, I did some work, some necessary (like breaking down the pipes, pulling the headers), some unnecessary (pulling both headers and the manifold) and we're cooking with grease.

    Headers and manifold out:



    The header that was not coming out either way unless I took off a body mount:



    How the heck did I get it out of the way, I'd have to in order to get at the RM area, you ask? A little ingenuity and a tie-down strap that I used to compress the headers to make them just narrow enough to squeeze down enough to pull the cross-pipe out of the way.

    Once that was done, I went after the seal like nobodies business. After I found it, of course, which is where I'm at now.

    Pic from another desperate thread, showing where exactly the upper seal is located:



    Hopefully I'll have the whole thing back in one piece here in the next couple days, then on to the next project - retuning the carb and waiting for some cash for a working battery! (the key comes out real easy when the ignition is turned, I ended up killing the battery in the first 3 days because I hadn't realized it was still turned!)

  3. #3
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    Way to go jumping in with a build thread I love white Scramblers, you don't see them enough.

    That's a handy picture on the RMS replacement, good find.

    Keep the pictures coming.

    '84 Alaskan Postal CJ-8: Right-hand drive, World Cab, 35s, outboarded BDS 5" CJ-to-YJ lift with add-a-leafs, XD9000i, PSC armor, Waggy 44/HD20, 4.0/AW4, KC HiLites reverse LED kit, Runck bumpers
    '05 Rubicon LJ: Magnum Powers Supercharger, MCE Fenders, JCR sliders, BDS belly-up skidplate, Borla headers & exhaust, , chromoly axleshafts, OR-FAB bumpers, WARN Zeon, JKS JSPEC 3" lift & ACOS Pro front spacers/bumps, 315/75 Duratracs, GR8TOPS Exogate and Safari Cab top, Kleinn OBA, PIAA RF3 cube lights, Inspired Engineering LED headlights, 6-speed, CB, GR8TOPS Safari Cab
    '77 Cherokee S 4-door "Mater": Aero Tank aux gas tank, part time kit in tcase, Warn lockouts, 360 with goodies, saggy springs, loads of patina
    '08 JK Unlimited: Stock, auto, heated seat
    '99 Ford E350 "the bus": Redneck camper/tow rig conversion

    All of the pics from the trip | Rockcrawler.com story of bringing the postal home from AK to NC


  4. #4
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    Thanks Eric,
    A color change will happen sometime down the road. She was originally a cream color - cameo tan maybe? I'm thinking of going with a dark brown metallic, but that's the end of the road. There's plenty to do between now and then.

    The desperate thread I pulled the picture off of was one of my own. I'll post some more pics on the ebrake swap because I know now that it'll be pretty useful for anyone else in my boat (people with little to no mechanical experience who own one of the worlds most mechanically demanding vehicles).

  5. #5
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    Maybe you should consider painting it like a Walker Hound !

    For those of you who don't know what a Walker Hound is ,they are a cold trailing hounds that look like a really big Beagle. Used for Lion and Bear hunting mostly.

    Many people think they are the same as American Fox Hounds but they are a much stockyer build and bigger overall 70-90lbs and bread specifically for hunting lions and bears.

    On the Ted Nugent show recently he was hunting Black Bears in Idaho over a pack of Walker Hounds. It was quite a sight to see 9 dogs in the back of a John Deere ATV with 4 on each side and the head dog in the middle in the front. 9 tails sticking straight up, in perfect formation.

    They went 20 yards down the dirt road before somebody got a whiff of bear and off they went. They had the bear treed in less than 20 seconds !!! This all took place exactly 2 minutes out of the pickup truck!

    BA-Roooo

    I do love the hounds, in fact of all animals I am most like them.

    Randy

  6. #6
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    Dodged a bullet

    There's something to be said for being patient and taking your time. After the frustration of finding the rear main seal and finally getting the new one in, I wanted to get her closed back up so I could work on other problems. Haste makes waste, so they say, and while torquing the main bolts I ran into this:



    If you haven't run into this problem, trust me, you don't want to. I thought I was going to be sick and just about every curse word I could think of came out of my mouth. Remember Ralphie's dad in "A Christmas Story?" I would've made him blush. A broken main bolt. I figured I was screwed, kinda literally.

    OK, take some time to calm down and think about it. Google search yielded a few ways to get this bugger out. The easiest, cheapest, and something I could possibly do was drill and try an EZ-out. So I tried to calm down. For 5 days. Calm now...went to Ace to pick up the tools and look to see if they had spare bolts. Turns out they had everything I needed, from reverse drill bits to the right size EZ out, and surprisingly enough, a pair of bolts that matched my main bolts identically. That was huge because I can't seem to find those anywhere! Jeepdoc has used ones, but after the luck I was having, I wanted as new as possible, and these were just the fit.

    I get home and am dreading what I'm going to have to do. The first hurdle was pulling the oil pump, the collection tube was right in the way of where I needed to drill. Check. Next, start drilling, as slow as possible, and plan on this taking hours. The drill started, and the bolt started turning with it! That sucker was loose the whole time! I stuck my pinky up there and twisted it out.



    How a main bolt is NOT supposed to look.

    The best news is now I can take these extra tools I don't need back to Ace so I can use the money for something I actually do need, like a new battery.

    The replacements went in quick and easy, and I retorqued the remainders up to 80# like the good book says and am now finishing up this headache of a project. Of course, now it will turn out to be something else, like the tranny seal, but I've learned a lot so far and hopefully this is the ticket.

    What a week...

    Oh, and a picture just for W.R. :



    A little out of place for a Walker, but she loves it here.

  7. #7
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    That's a good lookin' hounddog !!!

    You got very lucky on the main cap bolt. I am a machinist and I can assure you that I do know how to get them out but,,, Even for me with all the tools, and supposed know how, it is about a 40% shot.

    Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

    Good thing to know is that many times just using a fine sharp punch and a 4oz ball peen hammer, you can massage the thing out. The only thing usually stopping that is either corrosion, or the bolt being bottomed out in the hole (torqued into the bottom). Then your screwed, and have to drill it out.

    The hardest thing is to get the drill in the center of the bolt,(use the bearing cap and a transfer punch for best results) and like you found out left hand drills are the best way as most times the heat from the drill will break the remnant loose, and spin it out for you.

    You should breath a great big healthy sigh of relief any time you succeed removing a busted bolt, because you just got lucky!

    Randy

  8. #8
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    The good luck continues

    So I finally got her all sewn up (sorry, but being a vet that's how we talk), went out and got a new battery and plugged it in. To my surprise, just the act of attaching the leads made her want to start...not sure what's up with that, no key in the ignition, ignition locked off, the only thing I could think of is that she had some pent up energy from manually turning the crank or something that she needed to release.

    Anyways, I hopped in the seat and gave a little gas, and presto! She's running again. I let her idle a little while, then tried dinking with the carb a bit but I just can't seem to get it right. Any closing of the choke beyond halfway and she putters out. When she's warm any opening beyond halfway and she putters out and spits junk everywhere from the tail. Maybe the sweet spot is normal operating choke for her? That's a problem I'll get tackling this week, but now that she's back running again I couldn't be happier. Best news is that I let her run for 20 minutes or so with occasional idle acceleration, and all I got was a single drip of oil that looked old and probably outside of the block and just got going with a warm engine. We'll check again in the morning and fire her up and see what happens. I completely expected a leak to show up somewhere from the take down.

    Ultimately, I think I'd like to sell off the 4bbl carb (Edelbrock) and Clifford 6=8 manifold and go back to stock. I think I'll have to do something anyways when it comes time for emissions testing next year, maybe something like a Howell fuel injection system. What I do know is that it's near impossible to tinker with the carb without a helper or some fundamental knowledge of what the heck I'm doing. Each individual aspect - controlling idle speed and air/fuel mixture I get, but it's a brain teaser when you put them all together and try to tune it... Back to learning about how engines work for now!

  9. #9
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    Actually: You should dump the Carb, Keep the Clifford Manifold, and install a Howell FI set up.. The 258's run really well with that system, and the only one I have seen that is better is the MOPAR FI system which is essentially the system off a 4.0 but calibrated for the 258. It's about twice as much as a Howell system, but includes ignition timing in the package..

    The reason I say keep the manifold is because it is made from aluminum, and as a result comes to engine temp sooner than a cast Iron one. What this does for you is makes the mixture settle down sooner, and prevents spitting back thru the carb, which can cause damage to the carb..

    Your existing carb has a Automatic Choke which is controlled by heat. It probably is not set up right, and a result the thing won't come off idle very well.

    Fuel Injection cures all of your running and drivability issues. It is night and day difference. Like driving a new car. You just get in, start, and go. It is especially well suited to High Altitude where you live, much better than any carb.

    Mr Howell is the guy that designed all of the early GM Fuel Injection systems from about early 90's on. I've seen literally hundreds of them on Jeeps and they work well. Parts are all stock GM parts and are available anywhere.

    Do you have a Haynes Manual for your Jeep yet? If not, you need to get one. It will explain virtually every aspect of Jeep maintenance in step by step detail. If you can follow instructions, you can do anything to your vehicle with tools and a Haynes manual. Their step by step proceedures are the best I've seen, and have worked perfectly for me on a variety of cars and motorcycles that I've owned over the last 40 years. Available at most good auto parts stores, or Amazon.com.

    Avoid at all cost. Get educated first, before you make things worse.. Think like a Vet, it works on cars too.

    See pic below!

    Good Luck

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-03-2010 at 11:48 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Do you have a Haynes Manual for your Jeep yet? If not, you need to get one. It will explain virtually every aspect of Jeep maintenance in step by step detail. If you can follow instructions, you can do anything to your vehicle with tools and a Haynes manual.
    I agree a Haynes is good to have, but also get the Chilton's and check out this link for the best manual you can have: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7131692/Jeep-FSM

    In my experience, I have found Haynes lacking in many cases and having the Chilton's often helps when there's an issue, also vice versa other times. I generally read through any procedure in both because they'll often differ slightly and you may find one way better than the other.

    Auto Zone has an online repair manual/instruction section that is actually quite good too in the few times I've tried it (when dealing with my swapped axles mostly).

    The factory service manual is great for complete and total detail, but isn't so good for routine maintenance like Haynes/Chilton.

    '84 Alaskan Postal CJ-8: Right-hand drive, World Cab, 35s, outboarded BDS 5" CJ-to-YJ lift with add-a-leafs, XD9000i, PSC armor, Waggy 44/HD20, 4.0/AW4, KC HiLites reverse LED kit, Runck bumpers
    '05 Rubicon LJ: Magnum Powers Supercharger, MCE Fenders, JCR sliders, BDS belly-up skidplate, Borla headers & exhaust, , chromoly axleshafts, OR-FAB bumpers, WARN Zeon, JKS JSPEC 3" lift & ACOS Pro front spacers/bumps, 315/75 Duratracs, GR8TOPS Exogate and Safari Cab top, Kleinn OBA, PIAA RF3 cube lights, Inspired Engineering LED headlights, 6-speed, CB, GR8TOPS Safari Cab
    '77 Cherokee S 4-door "Mater": Aero Tank aux gas tank, part time kit in tcase, Warn lockouts, 360 with goodies, saggy springs, loads of patina
    '08 JK Unlimited: Stock, auto, heated seat
    '99 Ford E350 "the bus": Redneck camper/tow rig conversion

    All of the pics from the trip | Rockcrawler.com story of bringing the postal home from AK to NC


  11. #11
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    Thanks for both your posts. I've had a Chilton in my library for a while, since I was looking at a CJ-6 about 10 years ago, and I'm using it pretty regularly. Thanks to the internet, too, which fills in a lot of blanks (like trying to diagnose temperature probe problems...still working on, need to get a voltmeter to test it right, but it's probably something simple). The learning curve here is amazing.

    As far as the carb - it came with a manual choke, which I kinda like. I stripped it off this weekend and went with the Motorcraft 2150 based on recommendations here and elsewhere. My main motivation was to have something simple for me to adjust, and something affordable. The Edelbrock in actuality wasn't that difficult to adjust, I just think it needs a rebuild, and if I'm going to do that I may as well sell it and put something a little more suited for the 258. I am keeping the manifold, though. I think that is a good call.

    I'm also prepping for the TFI upgrade, again based on recommendations here and elsewhere. Not trying to restart a debate on HEI vs. TFI, I just think this is an easy place to start and the cost has been low so far. Went with all the recommended parts and I'm in at around $100, including cables and plugs. I'll include a write-up as soon as I get it connected and running again. I think the timing may be a little off, so I'm going to have to learn how to do that, too. I've already gotten a timing light, which may or may not be helpful! As a side note - the chain was a little slack when I did the RMS, so may need to be replaced sometime in the next year or so. I want to enjoy her before I get elbow deep in another engine project, though.

    Parts are coming in this week, I hope, so later this week looks like it will be the first trial run. I got her registered last week - very expensive since CO collects sales taxes on cars when you register - near 7% so that was a bit of a shock. At least I can legally take her for a spin around the block, now! I'll have a write-up as soon as I get it done!

  12. #12
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    I've done the manual choke thing too. the problem is that if you drive enough to get the engine to op temp, (choke open) and then you shut it off for like 30 minutes then restart you should have some choke or else you'll get spitback thru the carb. Very annoying! It's very difficult to keep up with this function, that's why they came out with automatic ones. The heat controlled automatic choke does this for you and really works well.

    EFI does all of this automatically, and works so much better than a carb it is redic. Look around you might be able to find someone who has a Howell for sale. Also the really cool way to go is the MOPAR system, and these show up on Ebay and on the Jeep Forums from time to time. Your 258 will run exactly like a 2006 4.0 with this set up.

    But for close to as much money, Another way to go is to just buy a whole 4.0 and 5 speed Auto from a wrecked 04+ Grand Cherokee. Alittle more involeved but really worth it in the end. You could also swap in just the engine.

    I saw a CJ 7 F/S on ebay a couple of years ago. It was ground up restoed on a Wrangler frame with hardtop etc. It had the engine and trans mentioned above, and was absolutely beautiful. It went for $6900 and I kick myself in the A%& everytime I think about it ,cuz it was one of, if not the, best CJ7 I have ever seen. The poor guy literally gave it away.

    Do give some consideration to the complete engine swap as it is far easier and cheaper in the long run than completely upgrading what you've got. It's a bit more committment but that's what Jeepin is all about.. Committment! Especially with Scramblers.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-04-2010 at 08:18 PM.

  13. #13
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    I switched to a manual choke on my Motorcraft 2100 and it served me well.

    If you're staying with something close to stock-ish height and tires, I'd say you have a great plan with the 2150, manual choke and TFI. Until I got to the 35s and 4.56 gears, my 2100/man choke/HEI setup was great. Simple as can be and never let me down. Even then, the only real problem was on the highway and if I wasn't always planning on an engine swap (always dreamed of a stroker straight 6), I could have done 4.10 gears and probably have gotten by ok, but I went ahead and geared for the current 4.0/dream 4.7 as a part of the "plan" when I stepped up to the D44/HD20 axle combo

    I'd definitely just drive it like you have it for a while and enjoy it while you work on the other things on the list. You can always do the 4.0 or EFI later if you feel the need, everyting Randy is saying about how nice a 4.0/EFI can be is true , but you pay a price in complication and the time/effort/$$$ it takes to do it (worth it, but it's still a price to be paid).

    '84 Alaskan Postal CJ-8: Right-hand drive, World Cab, 35s, outboarded BDS 5" CJ-to-YJ lift with add-a-leafs, XD9000i, PSC armor, Waggy 44/HD20, 4.0/AW4, KC HiLites reverse LED kit, Runck bumpers
    '05 Rubicon LJ: Magnum Powers Supercharger, MCE Fenders, JCR sliders, BDS belly-up skidplate, Borla headers & exhaust, , chromoly axleshafts, OR-FAB bumpers, WARN Zeon, JKS JSPEC 3" lift & ACOS Pro front spacers/bumps, 315/75 Duratracs, GR8TOPS Exogate and Safari Cab top, Kleinn OBA, PIAA RF3 cube lights, Inspired Engineering LED headlights, 6-speed, CB, GR8TOPS Safari Cab
    '77 Cherokee S 4-door "Mater": Aero Tank aux gas tank, part time kit in tcase, Warn lockouts, 360 with goodies, saggy springs, loads of patina
    '08 JK Unlimited: Stock, auto, heated seat
    '99 Ford E350 "the bus": Redneck camper/tow rig conversion

    All of the pics from the trip | Rockcrawler.com story of bringing the postal home from AK to NC


  14. #14
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    It's aliiiiive!



    So I got the new (rebuilt) Motorcraft 2150 carburetor in today, and went and checked on the remaining TFI parts I had on order - they were in!

    Randy - should also note I'm not ignoring your advice, it's great advice for when the time comes. But I think the time is a ways off for me, hopefully - the engine is a recent rebuild (<6000 miles at this point, according to the PO), so I figure I may as well milk it for what it's worth.

    The carb was a butcher to put in, it came with some hardware (mostly excess), but I had to run to Ace again to pick up hardware that actually worked with my manifold and adapter, as well as a gasket to mate them properly at the parts store. It took me a while and some jerry-rigging I'm a little uncomfortable with for the long run, and I ended up making another trip to the parts store when I realized the gas input nozzle didn't match the size of my incoming fuel line! Picked up the correct size fuel line and another fuel filter that worked with that ID line size, and got her hooked up. I admit, I was a little nervous firing her up again, but after some pedal pushing and cranking, she roared right up. I backed off the choke, and she kept running! Awesome. The idle speed was a little high, so I adjusted and checked the timing - which was off by about 4 clicks BTDC (@12+ or so). Hard to say, but that was likely a co-conspirator, along with the butch Edelbrock carb, draining mileage and producing a poor burn. I was happy, so I shut her off and went to work on the TFI.

    The TFI was amazingly easy. The hardest part was making sure I had the firing order right. (I know, that's not very hard, but compared to every other aspect of the mod it was the hardest) Then, I reset the idle speed and checked the timing again, and set it to 9 degrees BTDC. Easy peasey. I'm quite happy with the set-up now, she idles well and isn't tossing black soot everywhere anymore. I'll be heading to bed soon with some self-satisfaction to help me along.

    I'll post pics tomorrow of the work-up, after her maiden voyage!
    Last edited by walkerhoundvm; 05-07-2010 at 08:33 PM.

  15. #15
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    Maiden voyage

    Well, it finally happened. After a month sitting in the garage, I took her out to Fort Collins (20m round trip) to put the first tank of gas in and pick up a new length of vacuum advance hosing. After some trial and error, she's idling around 1000, timing is in order. If I back up off the idle, she dies at intersections (but runs fine in the garage). I found that I either have to up the idle or choke it a bit when I come to a slowdown, then open it back up to run. There's something to be done here, just not sure what.

    The carburetor came from the guy in Colorado Springs. If I had it to do over again, I probably just would have bid him out of an old one and rebuilt myself, but time is money and the frustration of having to dial it in was worth having someone else do it for me. I'll be selling an Edelbrock 1404, manual choke, freshly rebuilt with a new length of manual choke cord on eBay here in a bit.



    Nice and shiny. Just the work that went into it as far as sandblasting and painting and jet adjustment I think saved me a lot of time and work in getting it functional, so maybe it was worth it.



    If you look closely, you'll see the ghetto choke restraint I have bolted on the choke adjust. I'm going to have to find a 2" piece of metal I can drill and manipulate to make that look a little better.



    Your basic TFI upgrade. I'd post part numbers or detailed images, but this stuff is all over the internet. Just search "Team Rush Definitive" and you'll find what you need. Lots of places recommend the e-core coil, which I had bought at first. Turns out JeepHammer over at JeepForums has seen enough ignition modules burn out that he isn't recommending it anymore - I asked him. I just replaced the stock and put it in. To be honest, I'm not sure I can tell the difference, though hadn't had the carb running long enough on its own to compare before/after TFI. It's in now and hopefully it's doing some good. I'll consider an upgrade module and the e-core at some point, but I'm just happy she's running again! I'll post later on mileage when I come up with some data.
    Last edited by walkerhoundvm; 05-07-2010 at 08:35 PM.

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