Seat belts for rear seat, anyone done this?

Looking for a better setup for the rear seat for the kids. Right now I just have lap belts back there, so I am using their old "harness" style child seats secured in with the lap belt. So, they have "harnesses" on, but they are sitting up rear high in the Jeep and I'm afraid they are too high for the stock roll bar to be any help if there was an issue.

I'd like to get them down lower in the seat, and secured with more than the lap belt. So, I was thinking of something like this setup I found on the interwebs. It's a 4 strap belt, with 3 connection points. It seems like it would keep the kids nice and tight in the seat, and I think they would like it better than their old car seats.

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/am4point.html


Anyone done anything like this? Got any feedback on this setup?

Thanks in advance.

I think "mysunshine"did-something to secure his two young boys in the back of his scrambler

In my build thread you can see some pictures of what I did for my 2 boys-

https://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthread.php?39628-It-s-time-to-start-making-some-changes/page5

Putting shoulder belts in the back of a CJ is a pretty involved task... at least it should be. I'm no expert (by a loooooong shot), but I've read/heard from a couple and remember a few key points:
- The harness or shoulder belt has to be mounted within a few inches up or down from the occupants' shoulders - something about a risk of compressing the spine if they're too low (like on the floor behind the seat)
- For most low-moderate speed, e.g. street vs. race, crashes, a 3-point is safer than a 4-point - something about giving the body more distance/time to decelerate
- Mounting locations are key - the rollbar that the shoulder harness connects to can be as deadly as not having a belt - side impact = head to rollbar contact; This one hit home... my buddy Mike was killed in his CJ, when hit from the side. The trooper told me his head hit the rollbar - that was his only significant injury.
- Low-back seats are, by today's standards, considered very unsafe - no neck and upper back support.

All the sudden, putting the kids in the back got complicated and expensive.

So this is what I did -
- CJ fold-n-tumbler with headrests
- Cage designed, and rear seat located to eliminate head-to-rollbar contact
- Hoop behind the rear seat to mount 3-point belts

Manhattan said:

Putting shoulder belts in the back of a CJ is a pretty involved task... at least it should be. I'm no expert (by a loooooong shot), but I've read/heard from a couple and remember a few key points:
- The harness or shoulder belt has to be mounted within a few inches up or down from the occupants' shoulders - something about a risk of compressing the spine if they're too low (like on the floor behind the seat)
- For most low-moderate speed, e.g. street vs. race, crashes, a 3-point is safer than a 4-point - something about giving the body more distance/time to decelerate
- Mounting locations are key - the rollbar that the shoulder harness connects to can be as deadly as not having a belt - side impact = head to rollbar contact; This one hit home... my buddy Mike was killed in his CJ, when hit from the side. The trooper told me his head hit the rollbar - that was his only significant injury.
- Low-back seats are, by today's standards, considered very unsafe - no neck and upper back support.

All the sudden, putting the kids in the back got complicated and expensive.

So this is what I did -
- CJ fold-n-tumbler with headrests
- Cage designed, and rear seat located to eliminate head-to-rollbar contact
- Hoop behind the rear seat to mount 3-point belts

Click to expand...

So that's YOUR Scrambler, sweet. I have that photo saved on my phone for when I have the money to do a full cage.

For many of the reasons you stated, that is why I am not considering the shoulder belt style. Also, instead of doing a true 4-point, where I could see the shoulder straps spreading too far for both my kids if they were getting bounced around, I like the idea of the pictured 3-point "V-style" strap over the top of them. This should eliminate many of the issues you stated with doing the shoulder strap incorrectly.

mysunnshine said:

In my build thread you can see some pictures of what I did for my 2 boys-

https://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthread.php?39628-It-s-time-to-start-making-some-changes/page5

Click to expand...

That's awesome. If I had your skills and experience, I wouldn't be asking the questions. Very nice work.

I'll add another point to that 2nd bullet - why 4-point harnesses are not recommended for street cars... Unless there's a substantial roll cage - beyond the factory roof on a hard top car/truck, you run the risk of remaining upright, as the roof collapses. Race cars have full-on roll cages - way stronger than the factory A-B-C pillars. So, the drivers are safe remaining pinned to the seat. Apparently, we - in "regular" cars/trucks - are better off not pinned perfectly upright.

As I understand it, those types of belts - that mount over the seat back and to the floor (and not over a harness bar behind the seat back), put the load on the seat and the occupant, in a front impact.

If you imagine the occupant moving forward (as the CJ stops), the belt has nothing keeping it "up". Its only anchors are on the floor. The occupant's shoulders and/or the seat back become a fulcrum. The force is now both forward (their momentum) and down - as the belt "tries" to create a straight line from the point of impact to the mounting bolt. Again, the occupant's shoulders and/or the seat back - whichever is higher - is forced down to allow that line to straighten.

But again - I'm far from an expert, and could be wrong on any or all of these points. The punch line: do a bunch of research or consult with someone who is an actual expert.

Yeah, I get that the back of the seat will be what is keeping their shoulders from going forward as opposed to a solid bar (like one of the pillars where shoulder straps typically mount). I also understand the issue of them being held "up" as opposed to being able to "lay down".

The way I view both of these "issues" is that the current situation is worse than either of these issues. Currently they are in their car seats mounted to the bench seat. If we were in accident, they would be held "up" way higher than they would be if I could strap them down in lower in the seat. Secondly, comparing these belts to just the lap belts, this style belt at least provides "some" upper body restraint for them.

Am I looking at this the wrong way? I understand it's not the perfect scenario, but it's better than the current one and I don't have a few grand to do a full custom cage and fancy seats.

I replaced my original roll bar with one from a 93 YJ. It has the shoulder belt mounts built in to the roll bar. The height was taller and would need to be modified with a full length hard top but fit fine with the Postal top which is a bit higher. I'm not sure with a soft top.

jpdeuce said:

The way I view both of these "issues" is that the current situation is worse than either of these issues. Currently they are in their car seats mounted to the bench seat. If we were in accident, they would be held "up" way higher than they would be if I could strap them down in lower in the seat. Secondly, comparing these belts to just the lap belts, this style belt at least provides "some" upper body restraint for them.

Am I looking at this the wrong way? I understand it's not the perfect scenario, but it's better than the current one and I don't have a few grand to do a full custom cage and fancy seats.

Click to expand...

That's the same issue that I had. I started off with a car seat mounted on the rear seat. I welded some loops on the rear fixed seat frame to attach the car seat straps to. It was secure but no room for two of them safely in my opinion. That's why I went thru the work to build the kids seat frames and belt mounting. I added the rear halo to the existing roll bar because I was not ready to commit to bilding an entire cage yet because I'm going to build a new dashboard eventually. But, I did need to add something for protection for the kids in the back in the meantime. For me it was a cheaper and easier alternative. For me it was the "cost of doing business" to safely have the kids enjoy the Jeep with me.

Bugman said:

I replaced my original roll bar with one from a 93 YJ. It has the shoulder belt mounts built in to the roll bar. The height was taller and would need to be modified with a full length hard top but fit fine with the Postal top which is a bit higher. I'm not sure with a soft top.

Click to expand...

Bugman, do you have any pics of your cage?

I'll take some but the real challenge will be trying to post them to the thread. Lol!

Bugman said:

I'll take some but the real challenge will be trying to post them to the thread. Lol!

Click to expand...

Any luck with those pics?

Yeah, just busy. I'll post em up this weekend.