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Thread: New evidence against Fiat/Jeep/Ram diesel fraud.

  1. #16
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    Aug 2016
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    Berthoud, Co
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    109
    Interesting to hear the view from someone who actually worked on the recall.
    And it is my opinion that Toyota paid their fines for one reason and one reason only.
    As a car company,you can't blame the dead drivers,even if it was their fault.
    Toyota handled a bad situation as best they could,they did not come out looking great,but they did not come out looking negligent either.
    What Fiat did with the emissions,was pre meditated-they sought out to defraud everyone that bought one.
    So one can think it does not matter but the owner is the one that ultimately pays for Fiat/Jeep/Ram fraud.
    Care to live in Beijing for a month and breath their air?

  2. #17
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    Aug 2016
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    Berthoud, Co
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    So Fiat has submitted a software fix to fed agencies to allow their diesels to comply with emissions regs.
    Fiat claims that the software update will not affect MPG or performance and will make their diesels comply.
    Well this just sounds like a magic bullet doesn't it?
    To me,it sounds like they just found a better way to hide that they are defrauding diesel customers.
    If this software update can make the diesels comply-why did they just not use it from the start instead of committing fraud?
    It makes no sense.
    If there is anyone out there that can explain it to me in a way that causes me to believe Fiat,please share.
    As far as opinions about this diesel issue in general-Gas 1/2 ton trucks can tow well over 10k LBS. and get over 20mpg when not towing-AND still comply with emissions.This in itself is amazing.I never thought it would be possible.
    Technology will fix this,and diesels can be made to comply-But fraud is not the way to do it.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    City/State
    Berlin, ct
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    1984 CJ8 / 1980 CJ5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis View Post
    So Fiat has submitted a software fix to fed agencies to allow their diesels to comply with emissions regs.
    Fiat claims that the software update will not affect MPG or performance and will make their diesels comply.
    Well this just sounds like a magic bullet doesn't it?
    To me,it sounds like they just found a better way to hide that they are defrauding diesel customers.
    If this software update can make the diesels comply-why did they just not use it from the start instead of committing fraud?
    It makes no sense.
    If there is anyone out there that can explain it to me in a way that causes me to believe Fiat,please share.
    As far as opinions about this diesel issue in general-Gas 1/2 ton trucks can tow well over 10k LBS. and get over 20mpg when not towing-AND still comply with emissions.This in itself is amazing.I never thought it would be possible.
    Technology will fix this,and diesels can be made to comply-But fraud is not the way to do it.
    Maybe they didn't have a solution before or they would have just used it. Maybe they have been working on it ever since and they finally figured it out and let the Fed's see it for approval. Technology changes daily and this is just another area that is still growing. This may not have been a solution 6 months ago but some young genius could have been hired and found a new why to handle the issue. The point is we do not know because we do not work for the engineering department that has to figure this all out.
    MY RIDES:
    1980 CJ-5
    1984 CJ-8
    2011 Ford F150 Supercrew Daily driver
    2011 Mustang GT Premium

  4. #19
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    Aug 2016
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    Berthoud, Co
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    Thats a good answer,I will try to keep an open mind.
    I want to own another Jeep.
    I won't till this shakes out though.
    Thanks.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    City/State
    Berlin, ct
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    1984 CJ8 / 1980 CJ5
    Year Purchased
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    I am in the same min set as you. I just cannot bring myself to owning another Chrysler product because all the ones I have owned had nothing but problems. Even my brand new 2004 Dakota at the time was such a pile that I traded it in after 27,000 miles for a Colorado. The Colorado served me perfectly for 110,000 miles and was still a good truck when I traded that one in.
    MY RIDES:
    1980 CJ-5
    1984 CJ-8
    2011 Ford F150 Supercrew Daily driver
    2011 Mustang GT Premium

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    City/State
    Berthoud, Co
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    109
    The new Chevy Colorado ZR2 is a real off road machine.
    My friend just showed up from the airport with a new Jeep Patriot rental.
    What a piece of Junk-Jeep has lost its way,and Fiat will never get them on the right path-
    I predict Fiat will never make the Jeep pick up truck-sales are lagging all across the board,and they will lose Millions trying to fix/cover up/pay a penalty for the Fraud they committed on Jeep and Ram owners in this country.
    What a Joke it is that one of the most Iconic Brands belongs to one of the most Notoriously bad brands.
    Fiat is at the bottom of every list of quality and customer satisfaction and they are dragging Jeep down with it.
    Logic dictates that they sell it to GM,and Gm can put a Jeep body on the Colorado ZR2 chassis and have something cool and reliable.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    City/State
    Berlin, ct
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    Those new spool shocks are so damn cool on the ZR2. My only gripe about the Colorado is the luckluster interior. It is just too bland and at the cost of that truck now it should be on par with the bigger trucks.
    MY RIDES:
    1980 CJ-5
    1984 CJ-8
    2011 Ford F150 Supercrew Daily driver
    2011 Mustang GT Premium

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    City/State
    Berthoud, Co
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    109
    Even though GM has been accused of the same Diesel Fraud that Fiat,Jeep,Ram,VW have been,here is why I would still consider a Colorado over a Jeep pick up(if Fiat ever makes it).

    A colorado is an American vehicle,Fiat/Jeep is not.
    Chevy's are Reliable,Fiat/Jeep are at the bottom of reliability lists.
    The ZR2 gets excellent reviews and is based on the colorado which has been around long enough to overcome initial build issues.I simply would not be the first in line to buy a newly released Fiat product.

    So we have 3 main factors
    1) American car company
    2)Reliable vehicles
    3)Does not commit Fraud.

    As Meatloaf sang: "2 out of 3 ain't bad"
    GM achieves 2 of my criteria,Jeep achieves none.

    For Now,I will stick with my FJ,and hold off on buying GM or Jeep till we see the extent of their alleged fraud.

    And yes,aside from My friends Cadillac Wagon,I am not impressed by the interiors of GM vehicles.
    But we are the original owners of a 2002 Tahoe,and it has been the Most reliable vehicle we have ever owned.
    An the interior is as boring as they come.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    May 2013
    City/State
    Molalla, Or
    Scrambler Year
    84 SL sport
    Posts
    905
    The 2002 Tahoe that my grandson totaled is now a donor for my upcoming extended Scrambler. Usually I stick to AMC parts for my CJs, but this was too good to pass up. Some of us would like a new vehicle, and some of us like to build a vehicle. Good to hear your Tahoe has been so reliable. With your tenacity to research, I bet you could have a vehicle built with American parts that would be right for you and it would be Made in The USA!





    And yes,aside from My friends Cadillac Wagon,I am not impressed by the interiors of GM vehicles.
    But we are the original owners of a 2002 Tahoe,and it has been the Most reliable vehicle we have ever owned.
    An the interior is as boring as they come.[/QUOTE]

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    City/State
    Berthoud, Co
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    My wife is the primary driver of the Tahoe-it has 134k miles-and the original front brake pads.
    I never hear the end of it when I need to replace pads on my vehicles.
    Aside from the a/c compressor a couple of months ago and a 4wd switch button,No other non wear issues at all.
    This is my reasoning for Jeep being sold to GM and put on a Colorado frame.
    Oh,Ford has a new Ranger coming to the U.S. and they will be putting a Ranger Raptor package together.
    If that Jeep pick up is ever made,it will just be another foreign car in a pool of available vehicles that are actually well made by American companies.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    City/State
    Berthoud, Co
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    A brand new Lawsuit was filed a few days ago Against Fiat.
    This class action lawsuit alleges that Fiat Has faulty emissions systems in its 3/4 and 1 ton Ram diesels.
    The suit says that when customers brought their Rams in for emissions service,they left getting 25% less mpg.
    Previously,Fiat has been accused of having faulty emissions systems in their Jeep Grand Cherokee diesels and 1/2 ton Ram diesels.
    It is possible that Fiat has defrauded every single Diesel buyer they sold a vehicle to.
    A diesel motor is being considered for the new Jeep pick up that has been promised.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    City/State
    Lake Charles, LA
    Scrambler Year
    '82 base model???
    Year Purchased
    2007
    Posts
    120
    2012 Ram 2500 owner with a Cummins, best truck I've ever owned. A diesel in the Jeep truck would be great. I am waiting on the truck to come out so I can have a new work vehicle. I will definitely be a diesel purchaser.
    '82 Scrambler, SOA, SRS, Dana44/ARB front, Currie F9/ARB rear, 4.88 gears.37x14x17" IROKs. Howell fuel injection. T18/Dana300 w/4/1 gears.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    City/State
    Berthoud, Co
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    Your 2012 is not named in the lawsuit,it starts at 2013.
    If the EPA cites them for fraud,Fiat will not be able to sell any new diesels at all till all is settled.
    But my 2005 Cummins has been terrific,17.9 MPG and I rarely travel highways.
    I wish I would have read on a forum somewhere not to buy the automatic.
    I had to spend $4k to have it rebuilt.
    Now I research way more than I used to.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    City/State
    Dallas, tx
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    2010
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    Whatevs man, my 1997 Toyota Paseo is a slush box and I can't power shift worth a darn, fair warning to any prospective buyers. Free advise I wish I had .

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    City/State
    Woodway, Tx
    Scrambler Year
    82SR, 84SR, 84SL, 85
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    95-17
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    223
    Maybe you can prescribe Elvis some treatment for OCD
    82 SR
    84 SR
    85 Fugly Decal Edition
    84 SL - project
    79 CJ7 Renegade - partial project


    Certified JB Welder

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