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AC equipment/setup question

b2esq

Scrambler Junkie
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#1
My next long-term project for my little mall queen is AC.

I’ve got a compressor and the under dash unit. Still need to pick up a condedensor, dryer, idler, and a crank pulley (not to mention hoses).

My question (at least the first one) is this: Do I need a new harmonic balancer too? I put one on from a 95 when I installed MPI last year. My understanding is that I just need a new crank pulley (I have v-belts and not serpentine).

True? Not true? Any other advice on this project?

Thanks,
Bill

p.s. woot! Over 100 posts!
 

Kim Dawson

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
#3
Make sure when you change to a serpentine belt that the water pump pulley turns the same direction as before or you will need the correct water pump to go with opposite direction that the serpentine belt takes it.
 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#4
I'll add my two cents.
I haven't done this to mine, however FL does require A/C at times.

I copied some pages out of the factory parts list that seem to imply that either style pulley will work with your balancer.

You didn't state what parts you acquired - factory or dealer installed A/C - (if you know), however the pulley is different for each one.
(This may be due to the distance from the block for proper alignment):shrug:

The belt routing should help on install, as well as possibly determining which A/C setup you have.

Also, I added some mounting brackets that may help determine what you have.

I don't want to add too much to the post that isn't relevant, and clog up your thread.

ac.jpg



belt.jpg



belts.jpg



mount1.jpg



mount2.jpg



mount3.jpg
 

b2esq

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#5
Thanks, I can use all the help I can get.

'84. 6-cyl (with MOPAR MPI). v-belt.

The compressor I have is a factory York (thankfully with mounting bracket), I may also have the right idler and tensioner. I have an "extra" crank pulley -- the difference being the spacing between the belt grooves. The one installed now (power steering and alternator only) has the belts essentially next to each other. The "extra" pulley has the same 2 belt grooves, but they are about 1/4-3/8' apart.

I can't find the pulley this minute, but I'll see if I can find a picture -- I think it's the right one (the FSM shows different pulleys for ac/non-ac), but am not sure.

I was worried that I'd need a new/different balancer (even though I couldn't think of a good reason why). Maybe all I need i the right pulley.

Thanks again. I'll keep you guys updated.

B2
 

CJ8Rockcrawler

The FABLD 8
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#6
I'll be following this as well. I have I believe a dealer installed ac on the shelf to install in my 8. I started messing around with it last year and ran into pulley alignment issues so tabled to conquer another day.
 

b2esq

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#7
Some pics of my mounting hardware below. The obvious issues are... well, obvious, from the pictures. The driver’s side idler pulley is trying to share space with the injector rail (and the MPI wiring harness) — currently hanging off the rearmost and front most attachment points where the new idler need to go), the power steering pump will not be happy with the eventual hose location, the compressor mounting bracket will (likely) interfere with the MPI coil, and I’m still unclear about the alternator and tensioner pulley mounting (1st world problem, I know).

p.s. pictures are still rotating on their own... sorry...

(edited to describe pictures — after spending a couple of days tracking down “obvious” things, I wanted to save future folks some effort)


This is the York compressor bracket (upside down). It mounts to the 2 front-most holes in the passenger side of the head — which are currently occupied by the alternator and an ID tag). The short bar and bolt are where the alternator gets relocated to (it will be rotated almost upside down from the current position, but still spins in the same direction).

28835D5E-1E42-4B00-A8F3-56F538C06939.jpg

This is the tensioner pulley (also upside down). It will mount to the 2 front-most posts on the driver side of the head (the posts face up — the front is currently unused and the rear is currently occupied by my MPI fuel rail mount (I’m hoping it will still fit nicely on top). The mount is not shown in this terrible picture, and the adjustable arm will be removed (it’s used by the air pump if you have one). It really is just a forged bracket and an adjustable idler pulley).

0E528490-0A98-4768-A2A2-A0EE2DBA8BEE.jpg

This is the lower alternator mounting bracket and idler. It attaches below the compressor into the front of the timing cover/block (though I haven’t worked out which of the 3 holes it is — there are pictures of this online, but I still am not 100% certain). The bolt is separate, and offset slightly from the idler. It is what will mount the alternator. The existing alternator mount will be removed and unused.

0ED48FC5-316B-41BF-AAC7-8196B645400D.jpg

This is the new crank pulley. I made a mistake in an earlier post when I thought my existing pulley had 2 grooves — it only has one. I will be going from 2 belts to 3. Duh!. The purposes of the beltts change slightly (this is best seen in the pictures FLCJ8 was kind enough to post). The harmonic balancer will drive the water pump and power steering pump, the inner crank pulley will drive the compressor/tensioner/idler, and the outer crank pulley will drive the alternator.

D4F505C1-1884-4FE7-92F1-EB543B14C977.jpg

This is a really bad picture of the driver side valve cover/head, where the tensioner pulley will mount. I included it only to show that things are tight here.

70F3BE04-8E25-4B4E-A733-6B68C99060F4.jpg

(I deleted a couple of other bad pictures).


My only serious concern with the bracketry at this point is whether the compressor mount and the fuel pump delete/coil mount will co-exist. If I could fabricate anything at all, this would not be an issue — there’s room on the side of the engine to move the coil rearward.... we’ll see.

B2
 
Last edited:

b2esq

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#8
I'll be following this as well. I have I believe a dealer installed ac on the shelf to install in my 8. I started messing around with it last year and ran into pulley alignment issues so tabled to conquer another day.
The “authorized” dealer installed systems were American Air. That makes a difference in the brackets, pulleys, etc.

Shoot me a note if you need help with it — Jeep AC is far (far) more complicated than it needs to be.
 

b2esq

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#9
I am in search of a couple of parts and a little information. Most, if not all, of the parts I can buy online in some form or fashion, but I need you guys for the information — and will buy the parts from you too ^^

But first, can I just say that AMC-era electrical folks were out of their mind! Seriously, who uses YELLOW as a ground?!?! And why would a wire change color three times in the same circuit?!?!? /rant off...

I’d like to get a couple of fuse block “pigtails” (the short wires that plug directly into the fuse block on one end — e.g., radio, a/c clutch, and a/c — and the actual under dash wire harness on the other). I’ve ordered some of the GM-style male/female connectors, and think I may have found the odd fuse block connectors too, but would prefer to avoid the hassle if you guys who part/store massive Jeep hoards have a few laying around.

Speaking of laying around, I’d also appreciate any head start you can give me on the hardware for the actual AC plumbing. I’ll buy a new dryer, but would take an old one for the low pressure switch and mounting is you have one. I’m also looking for any pipes/hoses (except for the blower ones through the firewall — I have those). Lastly, I’d also buy a good condenser if you have one (especially if it comes with mounting hardware).

I can just call JeepAir to get something that works (and may have to) — though I’d like to get something at least approximately “correct” if I can.

At the very least, if I could get a fuse block pigtail that will fit the compressor signal, it’d save me having to frill (another) hole in the firewall....

Thanks in advance,
B2

p.s. Speaking of more difficult than it has to be... I edited my previous post on the brackets to try and describe the major pieces.
 

b2esq

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#11
Progress update:

FWIW, there’s a small conflict between factory a/c and the MOPAR MPI. The coolant temperature sensor (“CTS”) for the MPI (not used in the factory setup — “sensor” is different than “sender” which is still used for the gauge) is embeddeded in a YJ-style thermostat housing. This CTS interferes with the CJ compressor belt tensioner pulley. The fix is to relocate the CTS into the heater hose via a part from HESCO — or make your own:

Info: http://www.hesco.us/products/7882/cooling-system/128580/84540-heater-hose-fitting#.Wtecf4opDmo

In my particular set-up, I am using a factory evaporator (under dash unit) and a factory compressor (but am upgrading to R-134A for convenience). These components use flange-style connections, but the newer components (dryer, condenser, and 134A fittings) all use o-ring style connections. I got these new connections from Jeep Air. Let me just say that they are -amazing- to work with. When I first called and discussed my set-up, they were very supportinve and helpful in working through the parts list (pretty small tbh). When I later discovered the flange/o-ring issue and called them to see if I “had” to replace the OEM evaporator hoses, they instead sent me two adaptors at no charge (the tech said the problem was her fault for not asking me more detail up front) — and both kits arrived the next day (but to be fair I live in FL). I went with the R-134A conversion mostly for convience (but partly for cost) over the stock R-12 since since “conversions” only cost me about $25.

If you live in South Florida, I also recommend you check out Mako Hose and Rubber in WPB. They crimped my new ac hoses for free. Finding someone to do the service at all was harder than you’d think it could be, but these guys were awesome. They have every fitting you’d ever need (though I ‘m hoping I’m done with that) and made a point of asking me if I’d clocked/marked my hoses and fittings.

I think I finally have all of the hardware I need to comp,etc those project (thanks, in part, to Jersey — who I needed to help me find an “extra” tensioner pulley), and expect to have all of this back together in the next week or so (company coming in this weekend). I still intend to use a professional ac shop for evac/charge because the one part I’m still worried about is the factory York compressor.... I’ll let you know how it turns out.

I’ve bought a number of things from Jersey over the past few years, and everything is always exactly as adverstised. Not always “mint,” but you’ll know that going in. Prices are fair, and service/response are great. I can’t wait until he (hopefully) returns after the site software change.

Regards,
B2
 

b2esq

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#12
So new part from HESCO later (basically, an insert into the heater hose lone for the CTS), I have AC... 134a running ice cold... I’m still going to pick up an extra idler puller to be sure ( the first start up resulted in the idler throwing the ac belt into the alternator belt — good times).

A local body shop did the evacuations (at my request) and compressor oil change (from OEM mineral oil to Esther oil) and refrigerant charge for about $130 — which I thogh was pretty reasonable.

Nice AC.... thanks Jersey (and others).
 

wm69

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#13
Interesting thread.

I have dealer air on my green '7, and have acquired two more OEM/ dealer setups to put on the other two CJ's.

So did you end up getting condensors from Jeep Air?

I'd prefer to keep the flanged fittings. Underdash units are easy to go in, , I have the Sanden compressors and brackets. I'll need condensers for both of the uninstalled setups, so need to figure out the best source for those. Also figured I'd have new hoses made since I plan on switching to R134.

What all wiring has to be run to install A/C on a non-AC jeep? I know there are fan and compressor spots on the fuse box, but have never really looked closely at what all has to be run in the way of wires.
 

b2esq

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#15
So did you end up getting condensors from Jeep Air?
Yes. I bought the “universal” condenser (it comes with DIY brackets), dryer (with mount), hoses, and R-134 conversion valves (mounted right up to the York compressor). No one seems to make a direct replacement for the CJ condenser, and dryers are pretty much fungible for any make/model.

I'd prefer to keep the flanged fittings. Underdash units are easy to go in, , I have the Sanden compressors and brackets. I'll need condensers for both of the uninstalled setups, so need to figure out the best source for those. Also figured I'd have new hoses made since I plan on switching to R134.
I kept the flanged fittings to/from the evaporator (I even used the OEM hoses — 1 to compressor suction, 1 from dryer outlet) that go with them. Jeep air sells “flange to O-ring” adaptor for the different hose sizes. Work perfectly.

https://jeepair.com/fittings/10-oring-to-flare-adapter.html

https://jeepair.com/fittings/12-oring-to-flare-adapter.html

What all wiring has to be run to install A/C on a non-AC jeep? I know there are fan and compressor spots on the fuse box, but have never really looked closely at what all has to be run in the way of wires.
Those two wires are all you need under dash (there are 4 wires associated with the evaporator/blower, 2 connect to each other for some reason, and power/clutch are the other two). I ordered Buick connectors and plugged directly into the respective fuse block placeholders for simplicity.

In the engine bay, you will likely find an existing brown wire that (that you can test once you get the under dash wiring hooked up — 12v signal when the blower is turned on) runs to the dryer low-pressure switch. The switch interrupts power to the compressor clutch on low refrigerant pressure). The other side of the switch runs to the only wire on the compressor. The compressor is self grounded through the mount/block.

By far (far) the most difficult issue I had was gather the right combination of pulleys, spacers, etc. To get the belt spacing right, I had to replace both the crank pulley (going from 1 to 2 belts) and the water pump/fan pulley (going from 2 to 1 belt). I also had to install a spacer (I bought one from Collins Bros and then promptly had to cut in half — you need about 1/4”) between the fan pulley and the fan to get it to clear the belts — any more than about 1/2” and the fan wanted to rub the radiator.

The next issue I had was finding the “right” upper radiator hose. The stock one fit like a glove, but the small issue of riding on the new compressor belt... took several trip to the auto parts store to find something I could use (after cutting up several — like an exhaust mock up).

After that, make sure the compressor is drained of oil (factory compressors of the day, especially York, used mineral oil — which will do nasty things to your system if mixed with R-134. The local AC shop can do that for you if you want. I just wanted to make sure it was gone, and it was easy to do before installing.

A quick evacuation (testing for leaks — there weren’t any!) and 2# of R-134 later and I have ice-cold air... just as the outside temp hit 90F... even with the doors off it makes a HUGE difference!!!

p.s. Don’t forget to install an evaporator drain tube — that thing drains a LOT more water than you’d think it would. My carpet was very wet just form the drive home. I couldn’t find a picture of the correct routing, so I just drilled more or less down into the transmission tunnel — just enough forward of the drain to give the hose a natural bend radius.

Don’t hesitate to ask about anything else. I’ll do what I can. I didn’t take a lot of pictures because I discovered that a lot depends on what manufacture/belt/engine you have, but I sure did learn a lot.

Regards,
Bill
 
#16
Bought an underdash unit last year which came with condenser core, compressor, mount bracket, double belt pulley for alternator, belt, dryer, hoses and fittings plus misc bolts, spacers etc. all included. And easy to follow directions. Had an AC shop crimp the hoses and charge the unit (R134) after finished the install. Included bracket is to lower the alternator to the bottom and mount compressor above. Belt goes to alternator pulley. Don't have serpintene belt on my '83. Drilled two holes thru the firewall for refrigerant hoses and one more for the drain. Have to cut off top 2" of the accelerator arm (no big deal). Total install about 3 hours. Fit perfect with no hassles. Works great. In Texas it has to!!
I'll look up where I found it and post if interested. Everything included and didn't have to hunt down anything. And no alignment issues. Best thing I ever did! No balancer changes either.
 

b2esq

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#18
Bought an underdash unit last year which came with condenser core, compressor, mount bracket, double belt pulley for alternator, belt, dryer, hoses and fittings plus misc bolts, spacers etc. all included.
What you're describing sounds like the JeepAir system, and I'd recommend it (and them) to anyone starting from nothing. My original goal was to be as "factory" as possible (which, in hindsight was just my OCD kicking in). I ended up with mostly factory (minus only the condenser) -- but then converted it to R143 anyway. My desire to keep the York compressor and OEM evaporator (under dash) lead to needing a couple of unicorns, but it all ended up okay...

Start to finish I would have saved money buying the JeepAir kit. But I had already bought the compressor (which came with most of the brackets I needed -- though I did have to replace one of them anyway), and the under dash a couple of years ago, so I was pretty much pot committed to finishing the way I did... really only about $300 (and a couple of headaches) more.

There are just so many engine, bracket, belt, compressor combinations out of AMC that a kit is the way to go.

My two cents' worth... ymmv.

B2
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
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#19
I bought a "JeepAir" kit the other day to install in my green Scrambler, I will detail the install in that thread. It is hard to find all the factory doo-hickies and what nots, and there are lots of different compressor brackets/idler pulleys/tensioners depending on what year, dealer or factory AC, etc.
 

zr10054

Car and Gun Junkie
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#20
I've bought and installed two Vintage air unit's in Scramblers and I had every part down to the bolts and nut's I needed.


I bought a "JeepAir" kit the other day to install in my green Scrambler, I will detail the install in that thread. It is hard to find all the factory doo-hickies and what nots, and there are lots of different compressor brackets/idler pulleys/tensioners depending on what year, dealer or factory AC, etc.
 
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