Duraspark ignition and painless wiring harness HELP!

Chipster1990

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#1
I am currently trying to install a painless wiring harness into my 1983 CJ8. From what I can tell, everything is stock on the 258 engine. Here is my problem... When wiring the ignition things just don't look right, so I investigated a bit and have found a couple different wiring diagrams and I was hoping someone here could tell me which one is correct. Here is the diagram provided by Painless for the Duraspark system


Now, here is one that is widely found on the internet


The big difference in the diagrams is how the starter solenoid is wired to the ignition module. The "painless provided" diagram shows the "I" terminal on the solenoid wired to the white wire coming out of the ignition module.
On the other diagram, it shows the "S" terminal wired to the white on the ignition module.

Any help on getting this wired back correctly would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chip


 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#2
I am currently trying to install a painless wiring harness into my 1983 CJ8. From what I can tell, everything is stock on the 258 engine. Here is my problem... When wiring the ignition things just don't look right, so I investigated a bit and have found a couple different wiring diagrams and I was hoping someone here could tell me which one is correct. Here is the diagram provided by Painless for the Duraspark system


Now, here is one that is widely found on the internet


The big difference in the diagrams is how the starter solenoid is wired to the ignition module. The "painless provided" diagram shows the "I" terminal on the solenoid wired to the white wire coming out of the ignition module.
On the other diagram, it shows the "S" terminal wired to the white on the ignition module.

Any help on getting this wired back correctly would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chip
Okay, the wiring diagram from Painless is more correct. Basically the Lt. blue is from your ignition switch and is energized when you hold the key in the "Start" position. This will send voltage to the starter solenoid to cause the starter to crank the engine, it will also provide battery voltage to the "I" terminal which will in turn provide battery voltage to the white lead "E1" on the ignition module and the "+" terminal of the coil.
Once the engine starts and the key is released the "Run" circuit will take over. This will provide battery voltage to the "E2" red wire on the ignition module and the ballast resistor which will in turn provide a reduced voltage to the ignition coil.
The factory fed "E1" from the ignition switch "Start" position rather than the "I" from the solenoid, as you can see it provides the same function.
Not sure why the other drawing shows the "Run" connected THROUGH the resistor as this would provide reduced voltage to the ignition module. The factory test procedure actually states that the voltage at this terminal should be no more than .2 volts less than battery voltage.Here are links to some diagrams if you want to check further.

http://www.civilianjeep.info/84-86FSM/Ca-Electrical_Systems.pdf

http://oljeep.com/gw/82_tsm/Part%204%20Wiring%20Diagrams.pdf

Sorry, I don't have the ability to link to the exact pages on this computer.
 

Chipster1990

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#3
Thanks FLCJ8. That is a HUGE help, especially to my confidence level that I can get this thing running like it was before I decided to install the new wiring harness. I'll let you know how it goes. I have to go out I town for the weekend so it will be next week before I can get back in the garage.

Thanks a TON!


 

Chipster1990

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#4
Ok. I think I got the ignition module and the solenoid and alternator all wired up like the painless diagram.

Question. How do I identify the pos(+) and neg(-) terminals on the ignition coil? I can't find any markings and I can't see it in the "pre-removal" pictures I took.
I'm fairly certain it's stock.



 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#5
Ok. I think I got the ignition module and the solenoid and alternator all wired up like the painless diagram.

Question. How do I identify the pos(+) and neg(-) terminals on the ignition coil? I can't find any markings and I can't see it in the "pre-removal" pictures I took.
I'm fairly certain it's stock.
If it is stock, the coil should look something like this from the top.
coil.png
The original wiring connection to the coil was a plastic piece that slid onto the terminals on the top of the coil. The actual plastic piece should have been marked "+" and "-" as shown on the drawing.
The terminals are offset as shown in the drawing and there is a ridge from the distributor coil wire as shown. This should help you determine which way the coil is oriented. Again this is if it is original. (I would have sent you a pic of my '83 coil but I had upgraded to the Nutter Bypass with TFI coil)
 

Chipster1990

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#6
That's definitely it with the ridge between the terminals!! The plastic piece was not there as the rigid dipstick tube is in the way for the plastic piece to slide on. That helps!! Once I get these last few little things connected up, it's TEST time! Fingers crossed!! I've never messed with any electrical stuff like this before!!


 

Chipster1990

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#7
FLCJ8,

Well, I went with your advice and wired it like the Painless diagram above. Finished it all up last night and BAM, cranked right up and ran like a CHAMP!

Thanks so much for the advice. :bow: Now all my dash lights and and gauges are even working.

Chip:bacon::bacon:
 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#8
Great to hear.
Thanks for the update, it helps others in the future to know if something works or not.
(Though I never had any doubt ;) )
 

Chipster1990

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#9
FLCJ8,

I have the OEM switch and relay for driving lights that were operational before my painless install. Could you explain or show me via diagram how I could tie this back in with the painless harness?

Thanks,
Chip


 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#10
FLCJ8,

I have the OEM switch and relay for driving lights that were operational before my painless install. Could you explain or show me via diagram how I could tie this back in with the painless harness?

Thanks,
Chip
i remember someone was troubleshooting a problem with this same option recently. I'll have to check back to see what I found out on this.
What do you have for original harness wiring, and does the Painless have any provisions for tying
this in?
Let me know what you have and what Painless provides. I'd be happy to help.
 

Chipster1990

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#11
Painless does not have any provisions for tying in. The OEM harness was just plug and play. The switch plugged into the relay which plugged into a connection coming off of the headlight switch in the dash. Also on the OEM setup, there was a red wire plug behind the left headlight and the lights plugged in there with a ground to chassis at that point.

I have the OEM switch, relay, and I left the lights installed with their wiring coming up behind the left headlight. I just have no idea how to tie it into the painless harness.

Any help is appreciated.


 

Chipster1990

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#12
Here are a couple photos of the original wiring setup. With the original switch and relay. It came off the white wire from the headlight switch.


 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#14
Chip,
The pics definitely help.
Does the Painless harness have the additional white wire from the headlight switch plug? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm not familiar with the Painless harness, though I may be in the future if I don't find my factory one.
Also, the wiring to the fog lights requires a wire from the bulkhead terminal block on the firewall, is it similar to the original one and can you provide a pic of it?
I am going to try to locate my FSM as the online wiring diagrams are hard to follow on the computer, or I'll see if I can print the appropriate pages. (sorry I'm old school)
 

Chipster1990

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#15
In the painless harness, there is no additional white wire coming from the headlight switch and there is also no wire for the driving lights in the firewall side of the bulkhead. I guess Painless didn't include this option in their harness.


 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#16
Chip,
I'm sorry, I just composed a detailed description of the wiring for your fog-lights and it apparently timed-out and is lost.
Here is a summary.
This is a drawing by Pav1 in reference to the post I was talking about:

http://www.cj-8.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=38470&d=1386863265

Basically what you need to do is use the existing harness, fog light switch, and fog light relay.
Reuse the 4 wire plug that goes from the headlight switch and main harness. Connect the wiring as follows:
The white wire needs to connect to the white at the headlight plug or anywhere you can access this wire that originates from the 20 amp Park/Tail fuse.
The black connects to ground.
The orange connects to the wiring for your fog lights behind your headlight.
The grey needs to connect to the wire that runs from the floor mounted High/Low headlight switch to the LOW beam headlight filament.
As I said before, I am not familiar with the Painless product so I am not sure what kind of connectors they use at the plugs and firewall bulkhead. Maybe you could call them to get some new or additional connectors and advise them of the oversight.
Let me know if this helps.
 

Chipster1990

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#17
Don,

I think I can do that. So if I just run a separate wire from the orange to the lights, and all else like you said, that would do it. Would I need to put a fuse in it somewhere since it would be bypassing the fuse block (bulkhead connection)? Looks pretty simple. I'm really getting educated here and you are a great help. I really appreciate the time you have taken to explain this to me.
Now my only other thing is a fuse blowing problem but I'm pretty sure it's a bad ground. I'm going to install a grounding terminal under the dash and run all grounds to it. Do you think that's a good solution?

Again, I can't thank you enough for all the electrical information you have and continue to provide.

Thanks,
Chip


 

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#18
Don,

I think I can do that. So if I just run a separate wire from the orange to the lights, and all else like you said, that would do it. Would I need to put a fuse in it somewhere since it would be bypassing the fuse block (bulkhead connection)? Looks pretty simple. I'm really getting educated here and you are a great help. I really appreciate the time you have taken to explain this to me.
Now my only other thing is a fuse blowing problem but I'm pretty sure it's a bad ground. I'm going to install a grounding terminal under the dash and run all grounds to it. Do you think that's a good solution?

Again, I can't thank you enough for all the electrical information you have and continue to provide.

Thanks,
Chip
The orange wire in the harness comes from the fog light relay, it is fed from the white wire that used to connect to your headlight switch. This wire originates from the 20 amp fuse in your fuse block that was marked Park/Tail. So this fuse would be providing the protection for the fog light circuit.
What fuse is blowing?
This could be an overload on the circuit or a short to ground.
Do you have a fiberglass tub? Grounding is very important with them as most of the factory wiring uses the metal of the tub, dash, fenders, grille, etc. for grounds.
Typically blowing fuses are not caused by a lack of grounding. That being said, you can never have too many grounds as long as all the connections are properly terminated.
 

Chipster1990

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#19
I understand about the orange wire for the fog lights in the "old" harness, but that wire does not exist in the new "painless" harness. I would have to create this wire and run it from the relay to the fog lights if I understand correctly?

As far as my fuse blowing, it is a 10 amp fuse. When it blows I lose the fuel gauge, temp, and volt. All else works. ( I have a mechanical oil pressure.). No fiberglass tub. Only other thing I can think of would be the fuel level sender? The fuel level and temp gauge have never worked since I have owned it. I replaced both gauges, still nothing. Then I did the painless harness. They worked briefly then blew that fuse. At first it would last a few minutes, then blow, now it blows right away if I turn the key??


 
Last edited:

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
#20
I understand about the orange wire for the fog lights in the "old" harness, but that wire does not exist in the new "painless" harness. I would have to create this wire and run it from the relay to the fog lights if I understand correctly?

As far as my fuse blowing, it is a 10 amp fuse. When it blows I lose the fuel gauge, temp, and volt. All else works. ( I have a mechanical oil pressure.). No fiberglass tub. Only other thing I can think of would be the fuel level sender? The fuel level and temp gauge have never worked since I have owned it. I replaced both gauges, still nothing. Then I did the painless harness. They worked briefly then blew that fuse. At first it would last a few minutes, then blow, now it blows right away if I turn the key??
Yes, you are correct on the orange wire. I was just trying to let you know that it is fused ahead of the relay if fed as we discussed.

As for the fuse blowing, you may want to check out these links:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~john.strenk/Gauge%20web%20page/basic_troubleshooting_for_cj_gau.htm

http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f7/blowing-gauge-fuse-instantly-13349/
 
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