• Notice for iPhone users: DO NOT use the image size reduction option when uploading photos to the forum. This causes portrait images to post as landscape. We have added a warning to the image insert pop-up as well.

Elephant in the room??? New Jeep Renegade

BRKLYNZ28

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
BROOKLYN
State
NY
Im just wondering with all the replys is it just that we are simply upset they used the renegade name plate. Gm also did the same thing with truck named "SS" ? No clue why they choice names that have nothing to do with there products .. But I guess a name will make anything sell...

🔩🔧🔨💰
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
Jeep's challenge is not a small one by any stretch. Brands have to evolve to remain relevant and successful. Some brands are harder to evolve than others - based on what they stood/stand for. No matter how hard they tried, Smith Corona would've failed to keep us interested in their brand. That Jeep built its brand on attributes that are less relevant today is makes it that much tougher to remain relevant.

Their current challenge is meeting the needs of the market while remaining true to the brand. It's challenge, but not an insurmountable one. Look at Levis. They didn't see the hipster skinny jean trend, $hit themselves and jump on the bandwagon. They evolved in a strategic and appropriate manner. That brand started in the mines, and somehow is meeting the needs of contractors and college kids. They are making products that support the original brand positioning, but in a way that's more in line with the market.

Jeep isn't innovating to do this. They're just copying in a reactive way. While the Vehicross was a flop for a bunch of reasons, it's the kind of innovation that Jeep should be doing - something that lets the buyer check the boxes (smaller, better mpg, greener) but still have the cool car in the lot... still a jeep.

Agreed with all of this :thumbsup: but didn't you just completely describe the Renegade in the last part of that last paragraph? "...(smaller, better mpg, greener) but still have the cool car in the lot... still a jeep."

If you want to fault the "reactive way" they've come to this market, I completely agree there, but that's not the current ownership's fault. Daimler Chrysler #&$^ed that up when they missed the boat and offered up the lamea$$ Compass, Patriot and Liberty as their small/cheap offerings.

Love them or hate them, FCA jumped straight in to fill this hole in Jeep's offering with something that I think is actually justifiable as a Jeep (per my earlier "own the segment" comment) given the limitations of the segment (it would never be solid axled or be able to have 35" tires).

It's based on an existing platform, yes, but that's the economic reality of building a car now. Honestly, with the limitations of required price point, MPG and overall size, I'm not sure what a completely new vehicle that would fit this segment could offer over a Renegade in reality.

So yes, completely reactionary, but at least the Renegade has the chops to own the segment for which it's aiming. Nothing close to that could be said of the previous small Jeep SUVs.

Also, interesting to keep in mind that the Scrambler was a "flop". Now, of course, I'm not comparing it to the Renegade, but it proves that marketing matters and I personally think that Jeep is nailing the marketing with the Renegade.

Also worth noting:
Jeep folks overwhelmingly HATED the JKs when they were introduced... and the 1 MILLIONTH rolled off the line last March. Jeep's never sold so many of any model so fast. 600k CJ-5s were made over 29 years of production, the most of any previous Jeep model. The JKs hit a million in 7 years.

Then there's the despised Cherokee. It outsold the Wrangler (two and four door combined) both globally and in the US in 2014. Not by much, but it did.

Last point. Look at the entry point price for any other 4wd Jeep (not including the short-lived compass/patriot). There's a ton of folks that can't make that work.

We'll be swimming in Renegades soon.
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
Im just wondering with all the replys is it just that we are simply upset they used the renegade name plate.

It's not "just" that they used that name IMHO, but there's a huge component of that involved.

Call this thing by ANY non-legacy Jeep name with decent ties to the brand and I think the gut reaction of a lot of folks would have been very different.

The "but it's based on a FIAT car" crowd wouldn't care, of course, but IMO the reaction from casual Jeep fans would have been different.
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
One other thought, it's funny to look back at the first Libertys and realize that they were fairly cool looking by comparison to where the Liberty/Compass/Patriot went.

I look at the Renegade along those lines. It could have been much, much worse.
 

Gueon

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Thatcher
State
AZ
One other thought, it's funny to look back at the first Libertys and realize that they were fairly cool looking by comparison to where the Liberty/Compass/Patriot went.

I look at the Renegade along those lines. It could have been much, much worse.

BW, it already HAS been worse!! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

jeep_wrangler_renegade_1.jpg
 

jerseyjeeps

Crazy about AMC Jeeps
Lifetime Member
City
Landing
State
NJ
Im just wondering with all the replys is it just that we are simply upset they used the renegade name plate. Gm also did the same thing with truck named "SS" ? No clue why they choice names that have nothing to do with there products .. But I guess a name will make anything sell...

🔩🔧🔨💰

No, for me it's cause it's BUTT FING UGLY. I frankly have no issue with the name.

Oh and the JK cheated by making it a 4 door. That's why the numbers are so high. How DARE YOU compare it to CJ production numbers !!! :eek:
 

jerseyjeeps

Crazy about AMC Jeeps
Lifetime Member
City
Landing
State
NJ
One other thought, it's funny to look back at the first Libertys and realize that they were fairly cool looking by comparison to where the Liberty/Compass/Patriot went.

I look at the Renegade along those lines. It could have been much, much worse.

Are you kidding. The liberty was a travesty. First we got slapped with that then in '05 we got a GC with Mercedes headlights. After the last LJ rolled off of the line it was all down hill from there.
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
No, for me it's cause it's BUTT FING UGLY. I frankly have no issue with the name.

Oh and the JK cheated by making it a 4 door. That's why the numbers are so high. How DARE YOU compare it to CJ production numbers !!! :eek:

We're all aware that nothing after 86 is acceptable and Jeep should have folded as a company in 87. ;)

I didn't compare it to CJ production numbers, I compared it to the previously highest produced vehicle in it's lineage.

If you want to try to claim that the CJ wasn't in the JKs lineage... :cheers:
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
Are you kidding. The liberty was a travesty. First we got slapped with that then in '05 we got a GC with Mercedes headlights. After the last LJ rolled off of the line it was all down hill from there.

Take a breath and note that i used the term "..fairly cool looking by comparison..."

That does not mean that they were awesome looking vehicles.
 

Bad Karma

Captain Sarcasm
BENEFACTOR
Lifetime Member
Member
City
Cobourg, Ontario, Cana
State
da
This thread would be a whole lot cooler if MM posted a pic of his brand new Renegade. (ya I just went there.)
 

jerseyjeeps

Crazy about AMC Jeeps
Lifetime Member
City
Landing
State
NJ
We're all aware that nothing after 86 is acceptable and Jeep should have folded as a company in 87. ;)

I didn't compare it to CJ production numbers, I compared it to the previously highest produced vehicle in it's lineage.

If you want to try to claim that the CJ wasn't in the JKs lineage... :cheers:

No, reread that. I said nothing after the last LJ rolled off the line is acceptable :wave: :cheers:

It's a shock yes, me being as pure an AMC guy as you will find, but I still do own a 2004 GC and three XJs. 2004 GC and 2006 LJ were the last real jeeps to me , but solely in my humble opinion.
When the JK four door came out I lost most of my respect for "jeep" however I FULLY understand why they did it and why they are making a fiat based renegade as well.
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
Just giving you the business... You'll come around to the dark side sometime. I definitely see a JK in your future somewhere :smokin:
 

mr. boh

CJ-8 Member
City
Annapolis
State
MD
Its simple really. Jeep, like any other brand, needs to meet CAFE. They can't do that by only selling Wranglers and SUVs like they did back in the malaise AMC era. "Cute" Jeeps are here to stay and the serve an important purpose....to offset the fuel economies of 18 mpg JKs and 15 mpg GC SRT8s. Now, if someone can figure out a way to get a 4,000-5,000 lb brick to get 30 mpg and to do it cost effectively, then I will entertain the idea that Jeep jumped the shark on the Renegade.
 

Dave The Sparky

Rebuilding my CJ8 very,very slowly...
Member
City
Halifax
State
UK
Nothing wrong with the Fiat Panda, not sure it deserves a Jeep badge though!!
Anyway my 4600 lb brick returned 41.3 mpg today but thats UK gallons but still 34.39 US gallons per mile :wave:
And yes it needs a good dusting:o

41.3.jpg
 

Jambo

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Cincinnati
State
OH
My two cents, which are actually worth about .75 of one cent, or twenty-one Canadian dollars (Sorry BK)...

There are two rather large marketing demo points that have been lightly touched on here at best, and relatively ignored at worst. Those are:

1). This is an entry level vehicle. Period. The demographic for this vehicle is NOT the longtime Jeep enthusiast, those familiar with the long and storied history of the Renegade brand (And if you want to be truthful, Jeep already f-ed that up with the disaster of a Renegade Wrangler in the late 80's), those who spend hours wrenching their vehicles, who use them as workhorses, or even family vehicles (the last point to be debated later). It is meant to engender a whole new generation to the Jeep brand - and like it or not, changing times, regulations, lifestyles and conditions mean that very well may NOT be the Jeep brand we grew up loving and still love.

2.) While this IS a 4wd vehicle, MOST vehicles now are offered in 4wd/awd configurations, especially in inclement weather zones. This is less a factor of offroad capability as it is to get down a glazed/wet/iced hill on the way to work. Truth is, 95% of the folks who own an 'offroad capable' vehicle will ever take it 'offroad', especially to the extent that the serious enthusiast does. If it gets a suburban soccer mom across some wet and muddy grass to her kid's match, that's about a much as it's going to see.

And, to revisit the point made earlier, this would only be a family-oriented vehicle if it was a second car. Or a child's first or second car.

Will this engender a future generation of Jeep enthusiasts? Will it save the company? Only time will tell. One thing is certain, don't change and you will die. Remain steadfast in your outdated ideology and think your brand means more than market conditions, and you'll be obsolete before you know it.

Just ask Hummer.
 

Wanderingone

Basic User
City
Hookstown
State
PA
Ford build the Model T and it changed the world, would anyone vote that Ford go back to the design and capability of their most significant model in history, no, it would not meet the desires of there potential customers.

Why I am out in the garage right now grinding rust out of a 30 year old government surplus jeep is because I love it and the potential it represents. Not because the coincidence that the name that it on side is the same as one on the side of something is built by an Italian car company. After the Germans last revenge of driving the American Jeep into bankruptcy there is nothing left of Willies motor company.

As I see it the only hope that we have for Fiat to follow through with making Jeep thier global brand and design a vehicle for South American farmers and to fill the void created when The defender 110 leaves the market in the developing world and the allows a few of these third world farm trucks to trickle into the U.S. market.

I am not optimistic. Now I need to get back to the grinding, that rust won't fix itself.
 

Manhattan

Legacy Registered User
City
Atlanta
State
GA
One thing is certain, don't change and you will die. Remain steadfast in your outdated ideology and think your brand means more than market conditions, and you'll be obsolete before you know it.

Just ask Hummer.

Agree 100% But, change comes in many forms. The most common of which is chasing - identifying the leader in a market and attempting to compete with them at their game. That rarely works. Just ask Kmart.

The distinction is subtle but critical: Compete for the customer, not with the competitor
 
Top