How Chrysler/Jeep Lost a Customer

spankrjs

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Biloxi
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#1
FIRST OFF, I am 1000% happy/satisfied with Bayside Chrysler/Dodge Jeep, and their service/parts/sales department. I have had nothing but good experiences with them:thumbsup:

I bought my 2005 Rubicon brand new in August of 2005. Since then, it has been dealer serviced every 3000 miles, no steps skipped. I have not abused this vehicle in any way, and it is 100% stock, except for factory sized Goodyear Duratracs, Mopar floor mats, and a Mopar trailer hitch. I have used/driven this vehicle, but I have not abused or neglected it in any way.

I am sure that some of you have heard the stories about the OPDA failing in 05-06 TJ's. If not, here is the story:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/2005-06-jeep-opda_cps_distributor-failure-1144202/

Basically, there was a bad batch of these things made. They recalled "some" of these units, but not all of them. My VIN code fell within the range, but Chrysler Jeep WOULD NOT REPLACE IT UNTIL IT FAILED.

It is my personal belief that a certain number of these OPDA were made totally incorrectly, resulting in low mileage failure. My '05 has 143,000 miles, so I believe it was at least "made to spec", even thought that spec is crap.

Another interesting note, ALL 1999 and up TJ's OPDA are made the same with regards to the stupid upper bushing design:

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4771610


Back to me. While driving 70mph on the interstate the other day, my engine violently bucked/stalled out. Not good with a semi 2" from the back bumper. I managed to get it to the side of the interstate. The engine was still running, but would not rev over 2,300 RPM. The check engine light also came on. I limped down the shoulder to the next exit. We found an Auto Zone, plugged in a scan tool, and I had an "intermittent cam sensor failure"??? And of course, no one has the sensor in stock. After disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, the code disappeared until the engine got over 2,300 RPM. As soon as it did, it would buck, like hitting the rev limiter. I got the Jeep home and parked it.

The next day, I obtained a new sensor. Before changing the sensor, I decided to take a look under the cap of the OPDA. And sure enough, the upper bushing no longer exists, causing the sensor ring to flop around. The shaft moves so much side to side that it will hit the sensor. No sense just changing the sensor.

I ordered a new OPDA from the dealer today. After ordering the new OPDA, I called Chrysler's "Customer Care" hot line about my problem. I gave them my VIN/purchase information. They informed me I would have to bring the Jeep to the dealer to be diagnosed. OK, I can understand that.

BUT, if I take my Jeep to the dealer, I will have to pay $90+ to diagnose something that is clearly broken. And I still have to buy the part, and then Chrysler/Jeep MIGHT reimburse me for their F--- up??? Which should have been covered under their TSB along time ago. But, conveniently for them, it is out of warranty.

I know some of you will say "But it has 143,000 miles on it, why are you complaining?" Well, this is a very well know issue, and even the new OPDA are made with the stupid sealed upper bushing that will fail. Some very ingenius individuals have found ways to "cure" this, but I really believe Chrysler/Jeep should step up.

My biggest concern now is that the lower bushing "MIGHT" be shot, too. If so, I probably munched the camshaft gear that spins the OPDA. Yeah.

I am going to pull the OPDA out tomorrow, once I get the "replacement" unit in my hands. If, upon pulling the broken OPDA I discover the cam gear is toast, looks like "rebuild a 4.0" time. Yeah. Hopefully, the lower end will be OK. If not, I will have the engine repaired, at my cost, due to a Chrysler/Jeep design F--- up, that they know about, that they issued a TSB about, but then they act like its not their problem.

Once I get this vehicle properly repaired, it will be up for sale. I know other vehicle manufacturers have similar issues, so be it. I have not experienced this from anyone but Chrysler/Jeep, so unless Chrysler makes this right, which I doubt, I will never buy another new Chrysler/Jeep vehicle again. Not much of a "threat" to Chrysler, but that's how I feel about it.

So, if you have a 1999+ up 4.0, might be worth your while to at least pull the black plastic cap off the top of the OPDA (two T25 torx screws hold it down) and inspect it for excess lash. It might just save you some money/headaches.

I also found this, from NAPA:

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NDP6002921_0392425058

It is "pricey" compared to the defective Mopar unit, which costs around $150-$180, but maybe it is a better design?



I will post a few pictures.

Mileage, check engine light on, I can't remember the "code number" that displayed, but it was "intermittent cam position sensor failure":




And a picture of the top of the OPDA unit, showing the black cover that can easily be removed to inspect it for excess lash. The two screws look brown, the camshaft position sensor is sticking out the side to the right, the oil filter is on the left.




I will update this thread as needed.
 

tower210

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#2
That sucks!!!

I'd been passively shopping for an LJ. I assume all of those could be affected by this issue.
 

jak inc

I H8 RUST!
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Merton
State
WI
#3
Sorry to hear this about your Rubicon. I bought my 2006 Rubicon LJ with under 45k and was worried about the same thing that happened to you. When I first bought it, I gave my vin to the dealer and they checked it for the so called "recall". They said my LJ was built late in the model year and therefore had the updated part. I was never really confident in their conclusion and wish there was a definitive answer to having the updated part or not. I feel for you... too many horror stories out there on this one.
 

Scramblur

Legacy Registered User
City
Pittsburgh
State
pa
#4
I have not checked my 06 LJ to see if it is one of the good ones or not. I figure between this and the lifter issue people have, chances are something will go wrong. Then it will get a chevy v8, which is what a Jeep is supposed to have!:headbang:
 

LetchcoreCJ7

Legacy Registered User
City
Nashville
State
TN
#5
It sounds like you have enjoyed your Rubicon for 140k miles. I would just fix the problem and keep enjoying your Rubicon. Jeep will never be what it was unless they get to be their own company. Take some of the emotion out of it and understand you got 8 years and 140k miles out of the jeep with no issues. I am not defending Chysler just saying you wont find any other new vehicles that will replace the Rubicon.
 

MrBeep

CJ-8 Vendor Supporter
CJ-8.com Vendor
City
Dillsboro
State
IN
#7
Hang in there Raymond. I have almost 90K on my '04 LJ "Fake 8" and around 205K on my 98 Sahara. Almost afraid to raise the hood on the Sahara, it may start wanting attention. :eek:
 

mysunnshine

Legacy Registered User
City
Phoenix
State
AZ
#8
How long do you expect components to last? Should there be a lifetime warranty? Shoot, tires should last more than 50k miles. They should warranty them too......It's the same logic.....
 

spankrjs

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City
Biloxi
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MS
#9
That sucks!!!

I'd been passively shopping for an LJ. I assume all of those could be affected by this issue.
The 05-06 had the TSB for the drive gear, but all coil pack 4.0's have the "sealed upper bushing" design flaw in the OPDA, 05-06's just seem to get the most attention/failures.

Sorry to hear this about your Rubicon. I bought my 2006 Rubicon LJ with under 45k and was worried about the same thing that happened to you. When I first bought it, I gave my vin to the dealer and they checked it for the so called "recall". They said my LJ was built late in the model year and therefore had the updated part. I was never really confident in their conclusion and wish there was a definitive answer to having the updated part or not. I feel for you... too many horror stories out there on this one.
The recall was for certain VIN drive gears. The TSB was for all others, and only if the part failed in service, no recall. The NAPA part might be a better design, but I never researched it. Doorman makes a replacement OPDA, too, but their are some issues with the cam position sensor mounting location/distance, from what I have heard. They do use bronze bushings, though, instead of the Mopar steel bushing. The Mopar part I bought is the same as my current broke OPDA.

I have not checked my 06 LJ to see if it is one of the good ones or not. I figure between this and the lifter issue people have, chances are something will go wrong. Then it will get a chevy v8, which is what a Jeep is supposed to have!:headbang:
LOL on the Chevy V8:thumbsup: All of the OPDA's re flawed, some just die much sooner then others. As long as you catch it early, little risk to destroying the oil pump drive gear/cam gear. The "grease mod" looks like a good solution.

It sounds like you have enjoyed your Rubicon for 140k miles. I would just fix the problem and keep enjoying your Rubicon. Jeep will never be what it was unless they get to be their own company. Take some of the emotion out of it and understand you got 8 years and 140k miles out of the jeep with no issues. I am not defending Chrysler just saying you wont find any other new vehicles that will replace the Rubicon.
Yes, it has been a reliable vehicle. But, for my DD, it is getting old, time for stuff to start wearing out, and I just don't have my "CJ enthusiasm" for it. You are correct, there is no current vehicle out there to replace I with. I think my biggest issue is Chrysler, more on that at the bottom of this reply.

x2. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water!
That is a good point.

Hang in there Raymond. I have almost 90K on my '04 LJ "Fake 8" and around 205K on my 98 Sahara. Almost afraid to raise the hood on the Sahara, it may start wanting attention. :eek:
Yep, but Chrysler really pissed me off yesterday, more on that at the bottom.

How long do you expect components to last? Should there be a lifetime warranty? Shoot, tires should last more than 50k miles. They should warranty them too......It's the same logic.....

Your are correct, parts do fail. And, I did get 140,000+ miles out of it. I have had good luck with this vehicle. My biggest gripe is that there is a design flaw with this part that they will not address. When there is a nationwide back order for this part for 6 months, that might trigger the "hey, we have a problem" response. When many OPDA's were seizing up on TJ's with less then 10,000 miles on them, this should have been a wake up call. But, this has been ignored. They sent out the TSB, which mainly addresses the drive gear issue, but if you read the whole TSB, I saw the official Chrysler/TSB, which addressed the changing out the entire OPDA, but have yet to see this on the web anywhere.

I guess most of this is emotional, mainly as a direct response to the Chrysler Customer Care call I placed yesterday. I calmly called the number, gave them my VIN/purchase history, mileage, etc. I told the lady about my problem, and that I saw the entire TSB about this issue. I also told her that I wanted this issue fixed when I found out about it years ago, but was told that they would not change this part out unless it breaks. My Jeep was still under warranty when the TSB came out. She then asked my "how do you know what the problem is/how do you know about the TSB??". I told her we scanned the Jeep with the diagnostic tool and got the "cam position sensor intermittent failure code", removed the cap from the OPDA, and it is flopping around. She then called the local dealer. Since they did not "diagnose the problem officially", she said there is nothing she can do. When I asked her for a case number, she hung up on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, a few things.

1) Yes, it is out of warranty. I know this.
2) To tell me that since the dealer did not charge me to diagnose something I already diagnosed, and came to the same conclusion, that we don't know what we are talking about, well.......... The toner ring is flopping around in the housing, pretty clear cut. In her defense, yes, the dealer should diagnose the problem. They did. We just didn't have the "paper trail".......
3) To call the dealer, tell them they are not supposed to discuss this issue with a customer.......
4) And the best part, to hang up on me, after getting snippy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, I know I am not special. I am not a "huge customer/account". But to hang up on me. That is unprofessional, unacceptable.

I took my Jeep to the dealer yesterday. "Paid" them to diagnose the problem. I now have my "papers" to call this lady back. The dealer is not too happy about how I was treated either.

Once I calm down some more, I am going to call back. Will it do any good, probably not. But unless I at least call back, nothing for sure will happen. I don't even care about the OPDA issue as much anymore, more so in how I was treated/talked to.

The parts should arrive today, and the dealer is going to install the component, too. They gave me a great price to install it. Now, since I purchased the part from Mopar, and paid the dealer to install it, I now have a warranty on this component again, 12 month 12,000 miles. I will be keeping a very, very, very, very close eye on it, and be looking out for any "check engine lights".
 

Randyzzz

Blown Budget
LIFETIME
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City
Redmond
State
OR
#10
As an ex Jeep employee, I have found that the initial call in to customer service is a nightmare. Honestly, not a lot happens at the customer service level. They just call the dealership and see what the service manager wants to do. Mostly checking service history, and seeing if you're a "good customer"- do you have your service performed there on schedule, etc. If you have all your oil changes done at the dealership and perform all the recommended "severe service" scheduled maintenance, you are a lot more likely to be taken care of than the "do it yourselfer". At that point in the game it's mostly what the service manager wants to do, being told to you via Customer Service. However- if you can get to the zone rep, you'll get things done. The zone rep can lean on the service manager and go beyond normal parameters to authorize dealer reimbursement for out of warranty repairs. Dealerships are given a dollar amount that they can "spend" to cover out of warranty repairs. The zone rep can authorize more.
 

spankrjs

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Biloxi
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#11
As an ex Jeep employee, I have found that the initial call in to customer service is a nightmare. Honestly, not a lot happens at the customer service level. They just call the dealership and see what the service manager wants to do. Mostly checking service history, and seeing if you're a "good customer"- do you have your service performed there on schedule, etc. If you have all your oil changes done at the dealership and perform all the recommended "severe service" scheduled maintenance, you are a lot more likely to be taken care of than the "do it yourselfer". At that point in the game it's mostly what the service manager wants to do, being told to you via Customer Service. However- if you can get to the zone rep, you'll get things done. The zone rep can lean on the service manager and go beyond normal parameters to authorize dealer reimbursement for out of warranty repairs. Dealerships are given a dollar amount that they can "spend" to cover out of warranty repairs. The zone rep can authorize more.
I am very happy with the dealership. I purchased the Jeep there, and it has been brought back to the same dealer every 3,000 miles for service:thumbsup:

I almost don't want to "push" the issue, if all Chrysler is going to do is "lean" on the dealership to eat the cost. That is not right either:shrug:

The service manager has also treated me well. I had an axle leak, paid them to fix it. It started to leak again a few days later. I was then informed by the service manager that Chrysler will not warranty a leak repair they perform. He said that is common for all manufacturers. We had a good "discussion" about how if I pay someone to fix a problem, and it is still there, it sure isn't my problem to pay to have the same issue fixed twice. He agreed.

If I do "push" this issue, I will reiterate how pleased I am with the dealer, but not so happy with Chrysler:eek:
 

wm69

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God's Country
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AR
#12
While I agree all vehicles do break down, I'm kinda with Raymond on the whole "sell and it and buy something else". Here's my thinking. CJ's are people. You can't just sell them, you fix them. Chryslers are like my Accord. They are daily drivers, comfortable, blahblahblah, but they don't have souls. They are just something you drive, and when they get old/wear out, you toss them.

In this case, you've got 143K miles on a CHRYSLER. That's WAY past the normal life of a chysler product, so I figure that thing is gonna start falling apart going down the highway. Now are my CJ's uber-reliable? Heck no, but they're people. You gotta have a conscience. You can't just get rid of an old friend like that.

I've discovered most companies warranties are designed to get you to buy their product, and ONLY to get you to buy. Oakley used to offer a "lifetime warranty" and when they did, I could justify spending $150 on a cheap plastic pair of sunglasses, knowing that if they broke, I would get another pair. Fast forward to when I discovered the coating on my "black iridium" lenses flaking off (not scratched, but flaking like bad tint), I called and they said "we don't warranty lenses anymore". I said "but when I bought these, they had a "lifetime warranty" on them. They said "yeah, we don't do that anymore, only the frames are lifetime warranty now" Another year passes, and my OTHER pair of Oakley's got a crack in the "O-matter" frames, so I called them back, got the "lenses have no warranty, frames have a one year warranty only". My response, "I purchased these with a lifetime warranty, and last year was told frames have a lifetime warranty". Their response "we don't do that anymore". My response, "I will never buy another pair of your glasses, EVER."

It's not about the quality of the product, it's the idea that a company refuses to look at a particular situation, be reasonable, and take care of a customer with a reasonable request. Whatever the product is, I will NOT do business with a company like that.

Eddie Bauer? Yep, lifetime warranty on "everything they sell". Not sure if they still do it, but when I bought my Swiss Army Watch in 1991, that was their policy. I paid about 30% MORE to buy the watch there specifically for that reason. When the watch died last year and was unable to be repaired, I called them (still had the original receipt). They said "send it in", I did, and they sent me a store credit for the full purchase amount. That is EARNING my business. Honestly, I understand companies having limited warranties, because nothing lasts forever (like my sunglasses, my watch, and Raymond's Jeep), but companies need to state their policy, and stick to it. In Oakley's case, they suck, and I'm done with them. In EB's case, they'll get a lot MORE of my money now. In Raymond's case, Chrysler knows they put out crap, but they're weaseling out of making it right over a couple hundred bucks.

Raymond, what what your opinion of Chrysler be had they said they'd fix it, or even SPLIT the cost with you?

Last tidbit, bought a Kenmore Microwave from Sears. It died after a year, but were it the magnetron, it would still be under warranty. I called Sears, they sent out a repairman, I paid the $75 service charge, and he says "it's the control board". I said "well everything works, but it doesn't heat. That points to bad magnetron. He said "nope, it's control panel".

I found a place that will refurb a control panel, sent it off, and lo and behold the guy calls and says "nothing wrong with this control panel, it's good". He then took the time to walk me through testing the components on the microwave, and guess what? Bad Magnetron. I call sears, and they say "well we can send the guy back out, but it will be another $75 service charge, and if it does prove to be the Magnetron, it will be a $150 installation charge, even though the part is covered under warranty"

I buy a Magnetron off ebay, put it in, and it works. I then call Sears, tell them to refund the service charge since their tech obviously didn't know what the hell he was doing, and add that if they DON"T refund the money, I'll simply contest the service call charge with my credit card company. They admitted that was reasonable, refunded the service charge, and while I certainly wasn't happy, they did enough to avoid losing me as a customer.
 

Randyzzz

Blown Budget
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City
Redmond
State
OR
#13
With your service records you have a good chance. However- no matter how personable the service manager is, it's still a "bottom line" thing. Dealerships are given a discretionary amount to do this type of repair, as long as it falls within certain parameters, which it sounds like it might. Why doesn't the dealership just offer it up front? They only get so much, and when I was in that realm, we saved it for the really "vocally upset" customers. After all, it would be a shame to spend your fund on a nice guy who probably would have paid himself, and then have a real "jerk" come in and not have the funds to "make him go away". (Read between the lines. The squeaky wheel does get the grease."
 

Randyzzz

Blown Budget
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#14
I knew I had this saved somewhere-

HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP.

(Note: Thanks to Dan Adams for his help with parts of this -
Chrysler Corp should be grateful to have him!)

* The order in which you should deal with a problem is something like
this:
1. Speak politely but assertively with the service writer.
2. Ask to go for a ride with the mechanic and discuss relevant issues
wuth them.
3. Service manager.
4. 800 992 1997.
5. Zone (voluntary buyback negotiations IF APPLICABLE)
6. Arbitration / Consumer Affairs / Attorney General if applicable
AND needed.

* Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take "no"
for an answer but do *not* act angry or make threats. Chrysler often
helps, even out of warranty, but they need to be gently pushed; they are
generally defensive; and what they know about customers and customer
service would fit into a microscope slide. The Customer Center reps also
often don't know what they're talking about, so elaboration may help. If
all else fails, call back and speak to someone else. Always take down
their name for your reference!

* Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, your computer
codes, and recalls before you visit the dealer with a problem.

* Don't expect Chrysler to change something because it's listed in a TSB
(technical service bulletin). TSBs describe solutions to problems which
may not apply to your car; they are *not* recalls, though Chrysler often
fixes cars out of warranty if there is a known problem and TSB on it.
(Daniel Adams notes that Chrysler sometimes extends transmission
warranties to 100,000 miles; there are extended warranties on some a/c
parts and ABS systems).

* Even if you are in an adversarial relationship, act in a friendly,
nonthreatening, non-adversarial manner. It works better and makes both
parties less angry.

* Daniel Adams writes: Chrysler corparte headquarters does tend to back
the field reps but a good service writer can get to them and help you
more than
you would believe. Don't take your frustration out on the service
writers, they carry quite a bit of pull behind the scenes

* Don't take "no" for an answer. Call Chrysler at 800-992-1997 from a
pay phone if you have to. They will call the dealer. Often, the dealer
will discover they don't need to charge you or keep your car after all!

* If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get
another dealer. Or try the newsgroup.

* If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work,
etc., get another dealer.

* If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at the Customer
Center. You may need to deal with a zone rep, the final word at
Chrysler. Others can overrule them but THEY WILL NOT. Some reps are
good. Others are useless. There have been many reports that the reps in
some areas are exceedingly sensitive and need to be handled with kid
gloves. (See message about service writers above they can often get
action where ordinary mortals cannot).
 

John N

Addicted....Ex-SOA VP
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
SOA Member
City
Rockville
State
VA
#15
Another defective Jeep part that they'd never fix or recall was the blend doors on a WJ Grand Cherokee. I've had 2 of them with the issue and it's a lot of work or very expensive to get fixed, depending on how you approach it.

I still drive a Grand Cherokee...
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
#16
While I agree all vehicles do break down, I'm kinda with Raymond on the whole "sell and it and buy something else". Here's my thinking. CJ's are people. You can't just sell them, you fix them. Chryslers are like my Accord. They are daily drivers, comfortable, blahblahblah, but they don't have souls. They are just something you drive, and when they get old/wear out, you toss them.

In this case, you've got 143K miles on a CHRYSLER. That's WAY past the normal life of a chysler product, so I figure that thing is gonna start falling apart going down the highway. Now are my CJ's uber-reliable? Heck no, but they're people. You gotta have a conscience. You can't just get rid of an old friend like that.

I've discovered most companies warranties are designed to get you to buy their product, and ONLY to get you to buy. Oakley used to offer a "lifetime warranty" and when they did, I could justify spending $150 on a cheap plastic pair of sunglasses, knowing that if they broke, I would get another pair. Fast forward to when I discovered the coating on my "black iridium" lenses flaking off (not scratched, but flaking like bad tint), I called and they said "we don't warranty lenses anymore". I said "but when I bought these, they had a "lifetime warranty" on them. They said "yeah, we don't do that anymore, only the frames are lifetime warranty now" Another year passes, and my OTHER pair of Oakley's got a crack in the "O-matter" frames, so I called them back, got the "lenses have no warranty, frames have a one year warranty only". My response, "I purchased these with a lifetime warranty, and last year was told frames have a lifetime warranty". Their response "we don't do that anymore". My response, "I will never buy another pair of your glasses, EVER."

It's not about the quality of the product, it's the idea that a company refuses to look at a particular situation, be reasonable, and take care of a customer with a reasonable request. Whatever the product is, I will NOT do business with a company like that.

Eddie Bauer? Yep, lifetime warranty on "everything they sell". Not sure if they still do it, but when I bought my Swiss Army Watch in 1991, that was their policy. I paid about 30% MORE to buy the watch there specifically for that reason. When the watch died last year and was unable to be repaired, I called them (still had the original receipt). They said "send it in", I did, and they sent me a store credit for the full purchase amount. That is EARNING my business. Honestly, I understand companies having limited warranties, because nothing lasts forever (like my sunglasses, my watch, and Raymond's Jeep), but companies need to state their policy, and stick to it. In Oakley's case, they suck, and I'm done with them. In EB's case, they'll get a lot MORE of my money now. In Raymond's case, Chrysler knows they put out crap, but they're weaseling out of making it right over a couple hundred bucks.

Raymond, what what your opinion of Chrysler be had they said they'd fix it, or even SPLIT the cost with you?

Last tidbit, bought a Kenmore Microwave from Sears. It died after a year, but were it the magnetron, it would still be under warranty. I called Sears, they sent out a repairman, I paid the $75 service charge, and he says "it's the control board". I said "well everything works, but it doesn't heat. That points to bad magnetron. He said "nope, it's control panel".

I found a place that will refurb a control panel, sent it off, and lo and behold the guy calls and says "nothing wrong with this control panel, it's good". He then took the time to walk me through testing the components on the microwave, and guess what? Bad Magnetron. I call sears, and they say "well we can send the guy back out, but it will be another $75 service charge, and if it does prove to be the Magnetron, it will be a $150 installation charge, even though the part is covered under warranty"

I buy a Magnetron off ebay, put it in, and it works. I then call Sears, tell them to refund the service charge since their tech obviously didn't know what the hell he was doing, and add that if they DON"T refund the money, I'll simply contest the service call charge with my credit card company. They admitted that was reasonable, refunded the service charge, and while I certainly wasn't happy, they did enough to avoid losing me as a customer.
Yep, I can't throw away a CJ, even with all of their "shortcomings/specialness", they are like a pet, you will do everything you can for them to prolong their existence. New cars just aren't like that.

The way the lady at Chrysler hung up on me, their is not much they can do to "make it right" at this point in time. I am very happy with my local Jeep dealer, and all of their employees.

With your service records you have a good chance. However- no matter how personable the service manager is, it's still a "bottom line" thing. Dealerships are given a discretionary amount to do this type of repair, as long as it falls within certain parameters, which it sounds like it might. Why doesn't the dealership just offer it up front? They only get so much, and when I was in that realm, we saved it for the really "vocally upset" customers. After all, it would be a shame to spend your fund on a nice guy who probably would have paid himself, and then have a real "jerk" come in and not have the funds to "make him go away". (Read between the lines. The squeaky wheel does get the grease."
I knew I had this saved somewhere-

HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP.

(Note: Thanks to Dan Adams for his help with parts of this -
Chrysler Corp should be grateful to have him!)

* The order in which you should deal with a problem is something like
this:
1. Speak politely but assertively with the service writer.
2. Ask to go for a ride with the mechanic and discuss relevant issues
wuth them.
3. Service manager.
4. 800 992 1997.
5. Zone (voluntary buyback negotiations IF APPLICABLE)
6. Arbitration / Consumer Affairs / Attorney General if applicable
AND needed.

* Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take "no"
for an answer but do *not* act angry or make threats. Chrysler often
helps, even out of warranty, but they need to be gently pushed; they are
generally defensive; and what they know about customers and customer
service would fit into a microscope slide. The Customer Center reps also
often don't know what they're talking about, so elaboration may help. If
all else fails, call back and speak to someone else. Always take down
their name for your reference!

* Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, your computer
codes, and recalls before you visit the dealer with a problem.

* Don't expect Chrysler to change something because it's listed in a TSB
(technical service bulletin). TSBs describe solutions to problems which
may not apply to your car; they are *not* recalls, though Chrysler often
fixes cars out of warranty if there is a known problem and TSB on it.
(Daniel Adams notes that Chrysler sometimes extends transmission
warranties to 100,000 miles; there are extended warranties on some a/c
parts and ABS systems).

* Even if you are in an adversarial relationship, act in a friendly,
nonthreatening, non-adversarial manner. It works better and makes both
parties less angry.

* Daniel Adams writes: Chrysler corparte headquarters does tend to back
the field reps but a good service writer can get to them and help you
more than
you would believe. Don't take your frustration out on the service
writers, they carry quite a bit of pull behind the scenes

* Don't take "no" for an answer. Call Chrysler at 800-992-1997 from a
pay phone if you have to. They will call the dealer. Often, the dealer
will discover they don't need to charge you or keep your car after all!

* If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get
another dealer. Or try the newsgroup.

* If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work,
etc., get another dealer.

* If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at the Customer
Center. You may need to deal with a zone rep, the final word at
Chrysler. Others can overrule them but THEY WILL NOT. Some reps are
good. Others are useless. There have been many reports that the reps in
some areas are exceedingly sensitive and need to be handled with kid
gloves. (See message about service writers above they can often get
action where ordinary mortals cannot).
Randy, that is great advice:thumbsup: But, if I "push" this issue, Chrysler is just going to "dump" on the local dealer, which I DO NOT want. The local dealer has always treated me great, I don't want to damage that relationship over a $150 part on a Jeep with 143,000 miles. Chrysler is already putting heat on them for sharing the TSB with me, which is not right at all. Hanging up on me, and now they are putting pressure on the dealer to "eat this problem", it just isn't right.

If I keep "fighting the good fight", the collateral damage will by far out weigh any benefits. I have friends at the dealership, I don't want them to get in trouble over this, or worse, fired.


Another defective Jeep part that they'd never fix or recall was the blend doors on a WJ Grand Cherokee. I've had 2 of them with the issue and it's a lot of work or very expensive to get fixed, depending on how you approach it.

I still drive a Grand Cherokee...
Yep, heard about this, too. And, I know all manufacturers have these "quirks", which just sucks for us.

The part failing was a little upsetting, but like mysunshine said, it has 140,000 miles, I shouldn't expect it to last forever.

I will count myself lucky, it lasted along time, and I have no collateral damage with my OPDA's failure.

The real reason I am pissed is Chrysler Customer Service "professional behavior".

Even before my TJ broke, I was thinking that I might need to replace it soon, due to the miles conflicting with my need for a reliable DD.

While I am not going to buy a JK, the Customer Care lady's dealings with me have guaranteed I will not be buying a Chrysler product. I will be sure to let them know this, one uppity customer service representative cost them a new vehicle purchase.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
#17
Good news for my engine. I/we caught the OPDA's failure in time. While I do not have pictures of the cam shaft, my friend who is a mechanic at the dealership, who I 100% trust, said the cam gear looks perfect. Judging by the condition of the OPDA's gear, I have nothing to worry about.






The face of the gear was just beginning to show "wear", due to the upper bearing failure allowing the shaft to start wobbling. No chipped teeth, no indentations, just a tiny hair bit more then normal 143,000 mile wear. I am very happy about this.

Before I took the old OPDA apart, here are two pictures showing the deflection of the toner ring, caused by the wear to the upper bushing.

Pushed up against the housing.




Pulled away from the housing.




This slight "wobble" at high RPMS was causing the "intermittent cam position sensor failure" code to be thrown. I am willing to bet the sensor is still good. At low RPM's, the old OPDA functioned perfect. If the Jeep sat a couple of hours, the check engine light would turn off. But, once you went over roughly 2200 RPM, the shaft would wobble, causing the sensor to read incorrectly, throwing the code.

The shaft wobble caused the lower seal to fail, resulting in oil inside the upper chamber. There are also small pieces of the steel bushing inside here. The seal failure caused engine oil to lubricate the upper bushing, keeping it from seizing on the shaft.



The pictures below show the lower shaft after I removed it from the housing. The grey colored goop is failed bushing/grease paste.








A quick wipe down with a paper towel cleaned the goop off of the shaft. There is very slight heat discoloration, but no real damage. The shaft could easily be polished back down with emery cloth, no problems.




Picture of the bottom of the toner ring. Note the grey paste. Luckily, the lower seals failure allowed oil lubrication, which prevented bushing/shaft seizure.

 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
#18
Inside the bottom of the housing where the lower bushing rides. Note the oil flutes, no damage. The grey goop on my fingers is failed bushing/grease paste, very gritty, probably a good grinding paste.




Picture of the lower bushing, minimal wear, no discernible wobble.




Picture of the upper bushing.




While it looks good, it is wore out, causing the upper shaft to wobble. It is not "bored out" evenly. Roughly 3/4 of it still feels OK, but the last 1/4 of it is messed up, causing shaft deflection. I figured the entire thing would be shot, but it is not. The shaft only wobbles at one point.


Picture of the part number sticker on the old OPDA.




Last picture, face of the sensor. Note the bushing particle stuck around the edges of it. Before I wiped it off, it had grease/bushing material on it, with a clearly defined line across the face, showing where the tone ring was almost rubbing on it. It got close enough to wipe the grease off in a line, fairly significant wobble.




All in all, I got very luck. I really believe the "blown seal resulting in upper bushing oil lubrication" saved me from the "seized upper bushing resulting in broken lower teeth metal shrapnel in the engine" problem.
 

bigwalton

Picture cravin' AK Postal nut
Staff member
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
#20
I've been way too busy lately to keep up on the forum, so I just found and scanned this thread.

This caught my eye.
In this case, you've got 143K miles on a CHRYSLER.
If you lump a Rubicon LJ, still one of the greatest stock offroad performance vehicles to ever roll out of any automaker's factory with all of the exact fun bits us type folks always beg for (lockers, low gearing, low crawl ratio, real tires, lift, etc) in with the rest of Chrysler's recent offering... just wow.

LJs are the next Scrambler. Limited production over very few years (less than Scramblers) and the Rubicons are going to be SOUGHT AFTER FOR DECADES as they're even rarer.

The idea of selling it over this just made me physically ill. Baby with the bathwater indeed.

Just try to take away my Rubicon LJ, same as my Postal, you'd better come EXCEEDINGLY well armed.

I had a Ford Explorer that makes this story look like a walk in the park on a golden brick path covered in roses as angels sing. THAT was a POS that you sell immediately (and I did, for the Rubicon LJ!!), this is freaking nothing. Sorry for being blunt, but this is the era of the lawyer, ALL automakers pull this crap now.
 
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