Is there a way to tell if the engine is original?

City
Charlottesville
State
VA
#1
Hey gals and guys. I found a 1983 CJ-8 that I'd like to import to the US from Turkey. The seller sent me pics of the vin and engine # etc but they were unable to confirm that it's the original engine. Since this is a requirement to bring it into the U.S., do any of y'all know if there's a way to confirm this? I heard Jeep didn't keep very good records over the years but I'm hoping there's some way I can cross reference the part numbers.
 

barrys

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
East Norriton
State
PA
#2
Search the forum for "date code". There is some info you can probably use toget and idea if the engine is original. Might be enough info to "prove?" that is is original. Somebody else may know better, but I think its a good starting point


Post the #'s here. Could help decipher them and date the engine.
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Richmond
State
TX
#3
I am not aware of a rule that an imported vehicle over 25 years old needs to have an original engine, only that it must have an original type engine or other epa approved engine. I am not even positive about that, since imported vehicles over 21 years are epa exempt.

If it has the 4.2 litre (258 ci) I-6 or the 151 4 cylinder “iron duke” you should be ok, even if it is a different engine than it rolled off the line with.

Now, if it has an export only engine (diesel) that I don’t know the import rules on. I think it would still be ok due to the 21 year epa regulation.

In short, vehicles over 25 years don’t need to comply with DOT regulations. Vehicles over 21 years old don’t need to comply with EPA regulation. These are federal statutes. State requirement may be different, but I doubt Virginia is much different than federal rules.

If your importer is telling you something different, I’d get a second opinion from a different importer.
 
City
Charlottesville
State
VA
#4
Search the forum for "date code". There is some info you can probably use toget and idea if the engine is original. Might be enough info to "prove?" that is is original. Somebody else may know better, but I think its a good starting point


Post the #'s here. Could help decipher them and date the engine.
Thanks for the reply. The engine is coded 301C10 which according to an AMC decoder website I found translates to 1/10/83. The C indicates it's a 4.2L. Since the vehicle is an '83, I think it's safe to say it's the original engine.
21c47a12-4119-42b9-9976-ab1b77a67d45.jpg decoder.JPG decoder.JPG
 
City
Charlottesville
State
VA
#5
I am not aware of a rule that an imported vehicle over 25 years old needs to have an original engine, only that it must have an original type engine or other epa approved engine. I am not even positive about that, since imported vehicles over 21 years are epa exempt.

If it has the 4.2 litre (258 ci) I-6 or the 151 4 cylinder “iron duke” you should be ok, even if it is a different engine than it rolled off the line with.

Now, if it has an export only engine (diesel) that I don’t know the import rules on. I think it would still be ok due to the 21 year epa regulation.

In short, vehicles over 25 years don’t need to comply with DOT regulations. Vehicles over 21 years old don’t need to comply with EPA regulation. These are federal statutes. State requirement may be different, but I doubt Virginia is much different than federal rules.

If your importer is telling you something different, I’d get a second opinion from a different importer.
Thank you for the reply. I was originally researching importing a 1993 Land Rover Defender earlier this year and, I'd have to double check my notes, but I read that the engine and transmission both had to be original for it to be importable.

The cJ-8 I'm currently looking at is a 4.2L straight-six, regular gas, not diesel.

I'll do some more digging on the rules. The research has been a little confusing because I'm seeing one set of rules on NHTSA's website and different requirements on CBP's website. So I can only go at so long before I need to take a break and bang my head against the wall a bit. :D
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Richmond
State
TX
#6
I think they check the land rovers really closely since there were a bunch of them imported with newer engines in supposedly older frames. The allegations were that the importer was buying defenders under 25 years old, removing the VIN, replacing with an older VIN and claiming them as over 25. I think the gov’t has not been able to substantiate that claim. A real drama saga if you want some reading that gives you the red rear. Even Land Rover got into the mess by giving the gov’t bad date code information.

Either way, you should sail through with that correct date code engine.

Look up DeLuke’s post on importing an overlander from Australia, he had a really detailed step by step on how to import a vehicle. It should be under ScRamblings.

Is the one you are looking at an export model, or a domestic model that was exported? (Third digit of vin; c = domestic, e = left hand drive export, f = right hand drive export) Also curious if it was made in the us, or in Turkey under license (first digit of vin 1 = USA, nl thru nr = Turkey, ca & cb = Egypt, kf thru kk = Israel)
 
City
Charlottesville
State
VA
#7
I think they check the land rovers really closely since there were a bunch of them imported with newer engines in supposedly older frames. The allegations were that the importer was buying defenders under 25 years old, removing the VIN, replacing with an older VIN and claiming them as over 25. I think the gov’t has not been able to substantiate that claim. A real drama saga if you want some reading that gives you the red rear. Even Land Rover got into the mess by giving the gov’t bad date code information.

Either way, you should sail through with that correct date code engine.

Look up DeLuke’s post on importing an overlander from Australia, he had a really detailed step by step on how to import a vehicle. It should be under ScRamblings.

Is the one you are looking at an export model, or a domestic model that was exported? (Third digit of vin; c = domestic, e = left hand drive export, f = right hand drive export) Also curious if it was made in the us, or in Turkey under license (first digit of vin 1 = USA, nl thru nr = Turkey, ca & cb = Egypt, kf thru kk = Israel)
Thanks for recommending DeLuke's post on importing an Overlander! That was so great to read. I love the map pic he posted with the pins. What a great way to make something you can't touch feel more tangible. I was happy to see he worked with and recommends Shumacher because that's who I've been talking to.
I received this response from the Shumacher rep regarding what determine's a vehicle's age when importing:

"That’s indeed correct for all vehicles 25 years or older. If an engine/trans is ever replaced it has to be replaced with a period correct engine.
If for example seller put in a 20 yr old engine, now the car becomes 20 yrs old for US customs and thus not eligible to be imported."

He said that also goes for the transmission as well. In a nut shell, the only way to determine this is by the engine serial number for the engine and then trusting what the seller/dealership says about the transmission.

The vehicle I'm looking at has an E for the third digit and a 1 for the first digit. So it looks like it was made in the US for left hand drive export based on the info you provided.
 
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