Powertrax no slip with Superior axles

wm69

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#1
Working on an extra AMC 20 I have with the intention of putting it in the Scrambler at some point in the future. Plans are Powertrax No Slip, replace axle seals, grease bearings, and basically get it ready to put in.

Have had a Powertrax No Slip for a few years sitting in a box in the parts hoard. Decided yesterday that I would install it in the 3.31 (open) AMC 20 I just pulled from my tan CJ (swapped in a locked, tubes welded, upgraded axles AMC 20).

I had one piece Superior axles already installed in this axle. So I pulled the axles (easy), pulled the carrier, and got the Powertrax in place. I did NOT use the thrust block as I was under the impression that with 1 piece axles it can be left out. That being said, there WAS a thrust block in place even with the Superiors in there (had them installed in 1998 by a mechanic).

It is ok that I left the thrust block out or do I need to put it in there?

My other question is, now do I get the bearing spacers out to replace the axle seals? Figure I might as well replace the seals while I have the axles out.
 

wm69

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#3
Lots of information here:cheers:

http://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthread.php?43765-AMC-20-advise-repair-replace&highlight=thrust+block


In my opinion, DO NOT USE the thrust block with aftermarket axles, it can lead to problems.

As for the bearing spacer removal, probably going to have to use a slide hammer.
10-4. Saves me time pulling the chunk again to put the block back in. Going to repack the bearings and bolt it back together.

As for the bearing spacers, from what I understand, one puts in the seal, puts in the bearing spacer, then the bearing and then checks to see if the bearing pokes out .020-060, right? So assuming your bearing sticks out too much, you pull out the bearing spacer and grind it down a bit?

Front what I've seen on JF this will work on my extra set of Superior shafts.

http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-....aspx?t_c=12&t_s=514&t_pt=8211&t_pn=CRO7086BK
 

spankrjs

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#4
10-4. Saves me time pulling the chunk again to put the block back in. Going to repack the bearings and bolt it back together.

As for the bearing spacers, from what I understand, one puts in the seal, puts in the bearing spacer, then the bearing and then checks to see if the bearing pokes out .020-060, right? So assuming your bearing sticks out too much, you pull out the bearing spacer and grind it down a bit?

Front what I've seen on JF this will work on my extra set of Superior shafts.

http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-....aspx?t_c=12&t_s=514&t_pt=8211&t_pn=CRO7086BK
Yes on the bearing spacer thought process:cheers:

I wouldn't use Crown bearings/seals:twocents: You can get the bearings/seals from a part store:twocents:
 

wm69

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#5
Yes on the bearing spacer thought process:cheers:

I wouldn't use Crown bearings/seals:twocents: You can get the bearings/seals from a part store:twocents:
Well, the problem there is I don't have spacers, or the bearing retainer ring, and the bearing retainer plate with seal no longer has a seal (but it does have a grease zerk which I haven't seen before).

Supposedly from what I've seen the Crown package has Timken bearings in it.

Anyone tell me where this retainer plate with zerk came from? The axles are marked with the <F> and are supposedly Superior, but the only retainer plates with zerks I've found would have been Summers Bros

http://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthrea...e-ID-and-AMC-20-factory-limited-slip-question

Anyone added a grease zerk to the housing like this? Looks like a good idea, but not sure where I'd put the zerk since the outer race butts up against the spacer. Drill through housing AND spacer, then put in zerk?

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/amc20-bearings-grenade-1335046/#post13135772
 

CBRogers

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#6
I have a set with a Zerk on them. Had them since like 1990. Trying to remember who sold them. I think it was 4WD hardware. but cannot remember. There was an update that I had to do once I lost a seal and have the axle turned down for the new bearing. Sorry on That.

I seem to remember that the <F> means Foote Axle. That was Randys Ring and pinon supplier a long time ago. Supposed to be USA manufacturer as opposed to and India sourced axle.


Carl
 

spankrjs

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#7
Well, the problem there is I don't have spacers, or the bearing retainer ring, and the bearing retainer plate with seal no longer has a seal (but it does have a grease zerk which I haven't seen before).

Supposedly from what I've seen the Crown package has Timken bearings in it.

Anyone tell me where this retainer plate with zerk came from? The axles are marked with the <F> and are supposedly Superior, but the only retainer plates with zerks I've found would have been Summers Bros

http://www.cj I would get a calipe...al plate sounds interesting, though:thumbsup:
 

wm69

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#8
I have a set with a Zerk on them. Had them since like 1990. Trying to remember who sold them. I think it was 4WD hardware. but cannot remember. There was an update that I had to do once I lost a seal and have the axle turned down for the new bearing. Sorry on That.

I seem to remember that the <F> means Foote Axle. That was Randys Ring and pinon supplier a long time ago. Supposed to be USA manufacturer as opposed to and India sourced axle.


Carl
That is correct on Foote Axle. They made Superior's axles back in the day so I assumed they were Superior, but looks like other's might have used them as well.

I would get a caliper, measure the OD of your axle where the bearing/inner seal/outer seal rides. Then, compare that to a stock shaft. I would be willing to bet the OD's are the same. IF this is the case, any of the one piece bearings /lock rings that other aftermarket manufactures use should work. All of the Moser axles I have installed use the same inner/outer seals that stock shafts use. So, I would assume the bearing ID of a Moser supplied bearing is the same as stock, so I would use the same bearing/lock ring that Moser uses.

I would NOT run a bearing without a lock ring, that's asking for trouble:twocents:

The stock axle shafts use the tapered bearings. This is fine, since you press the bearing on from the wheel side of the shaft until it hits a built in shoulder. This shoulder keeps the bearing from moving inward. The stock outer axle seal/plate, PLUS the brake backing plate, keeps the bearing race from wanting to come out of the housing. Now, to set end play on the two bearings, the stock axles use the thrust block located inside the differential. This is why, with stock axles, you only shim one axle shaft to set the end play for both bearings. You slide one stock axle in, it hits the thrust block, tighten the nuts. You then slide the other axle in, it hits the thrust block/other shaft, and you have too much play. So, you shim one side, which removes play from both sides simultaneously, unless the thrust block is worn, then you start pulling your hair out trying to get the bearing play correct:crazy:

The Moser, and I am assuming the other one piece axle manufacturers, use a "1 piece" bearing. You press it on from the diff side of the shaft until it hits the stop built on the axle. You then press on the lock ring which keeps the bearing from wanting to slide inward. This locks the bearing/axle in place. The bearing spacers kick the bearing out a hair, then you tighten the seal plate/brake backing plate down, which locks everything in place. The "1-piece" bearing have the correct play built in, so you don't have to worry about that.

That's all fine in good. But, if you run the inner axle oil seal, you have to grease the bearings before installing them. No problem. Now, supposedly you can leave the inner seal out and let gear oil lube the bearings. But, this only leave the outer seal to keep oil from getting out. With the AMC 20 housing, I wouldn't try this, pretty sure gear oil will leak out:twocents:

The problem with greasing the bearings: Once you press that bearing on, that's it, it would be a huge PIA to try to re-grease it. You pretty much grease it once for life. The zerk fitting on the outer axle seal plate sounds interesting, though:thumbsup:
I agree on the seals, and the inner seals are in the axles (I was going to replace while I have everything apart).

When I pulled these axles (and bear with me as this is the first time I've pulled axles) The bearing race stayed in the tube (comes out easily enough) and the rest of the bearing stayed on the shaft. So I can't simply hose the bearings off with some type of solvent (I normally use cheap starter fluid on ATV crankcases to clean out the innards) and then liberally pack grease in the end of the axle tube and on the rollers of the bearing?

I guess my bearing experience thus far has been ball bearings used in ATV engines and wheel bearings, and the outer races don't come off like they do on these tapered bearings.
 

spankrjs

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#9
You really need to pack the bearing full of grease, just like a front wheel bearing. I just don't think it can be done with the bearing pressed on the axle, but that's just my opinion.
 

wm69

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#10
I have a set with a Zerk on them. Had them since like 1990. Trying to remember who sold them. I think it was 4WD hardware. but cannot remember. There was an update that I had to do once I lost a seal and have the axle turned down for the new bearing. Sorry on That.

I seem to remember that the <F> means Foote Axle. That was Randys Ring and pinon supplier a long time ago. Supposed to be USA manufacturer as opposed to and India sourced axle.


Carl
Well, the problem there is I don't have spacers, or the bearing retainer ring, and the bearing retainer plate with seal no longer has a seal (but it does have a grease zerk which I haven't seen before).

Supposedly from what I've seen the Crown package has Timken bearings in it.

Anyone tell me where this retainer plate with zerk came from? The axles are marked with the <F> and are supposedly Superior, but the only retainer plates with zerks I've found would have been Summers Bros

http://www.cj I would get a calipe...ing some fresh grease in there wouldn't hurt.
 

wm69

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#11
OK, here's what I'm dealing with in these extra one piece axles.

Foote made, spline count is correct, length is correct. Since I didn't do the install on the one piece axles I'm running it can't really tell where exactly the bearing sits on the shaft.

Does it go all the way down to the collar?

The bearing pic is of the shafts I've been running since 1998. They are Superior. Should I simply carefully wipe off the grit and slap them back in with as much grease as I can pack into the race and end of the axle tube, and not clean the old grease out of the bearings?

axke3.jpg axle (2).jpg bearing.jpg
 

wm69

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#12
Here are the plates with zerk installed. (again these are for the extra set of shafts I got as part of a package of used parts)

There is a seal there, but I can't tell how it is pressed in, and I'm guessing finding replacement seals would prove interesting.

IMG_3197.jpg IMG_3198.jpg
 

jammer1

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#13
It looks like the seals are pressed in from the back side and the front side has a lip the the metal part of the seal presses up against. If you can pry one of the seals out from the zerk fitting hole (fitting removed) you might be able to match it at a napa or other store.
 

wm69

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#14
It looks like the seals are pressed in from the back side and the front side has a lip the the metal part of the seal presses up against. If you can pry one of the seals out from the zerk fitting hole (fitting removed) you might be able to match it at a napa or other store.
Ahhh, I see it now!

I was trying to figure out how to separate the rubber from the metal, and the metal needs to come out. Thanks!
 
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