Sad day for a long time Jeep owner.

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#1
Hello all,
Today I came to the realization that I may have owned my last jeep.
I have owned 9 jeeps,and I loved every one of them.
My last jeep,an 82 scrambler that I had restored,was my best one.
And in my opinion,the greatest Jeep ever made.

It has been found,that much like VW,Fiat has defrauded the American Government,and loyal jeep diesel and Ram diesel owners.

They outfitted their American diesels with software to pass emissions during testing.

I was willing to overlook the fact that Jeep is no longer an American owned brand because it had such a legacy in this country.

How can I overlook a Company that defrauds its customers?
Why should I believe they will not commit fraud on any number of issues that comes up when developing the new Jeep pick up truck?
I feel like the Jeep brand is forever tainted by a foreign government that does not respect our laws,whether one agrees with those laws or not.
They could have just decided not to sell a diesel here-No fraud.
If someone has some insight,or can tell me I am wrong in my facts,please do so.
I would love to keep looking for my 10th jeep,but otherwise:
I feel like Jeep is Dead to me.
Elvis
 
City
Brisbane
State
QL
#2
If you are making a choice not to buy a product from a company because of its questionable ethics/values be prepared to live a very humble life because depending on where you want to draw that line your options will range from severely limited to none. :shrug:
 

designerRob

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
City
Allen Park
State
MI
#3
If you are making a choice not to buy a product from a company because of its questionable ethics/values be prepared to live a very humble life because depending on where you want to draw that line your options will range from severely limited to none. :shrug:
Well said and true.
 

Bad Karma

Captain Sarcasm
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Garden Hill, Ontario, Cana
State
da
#4
Normally I dont reply to these... however...
Car companies are given parameters for their vehicles to pass emissions tests. The car companies make their vehicles pass their the tests. The EPA doesn't like that the companies figured out loop holes. Think of Smokey Yunick from old school Nascar fame. He read the rules and modified his racecars so they followed the rules but gave him an edge. This is EXACTLY what car companies are doing.
anyways... I'll keep my old Jeeps.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#5
I neglected to mention That I also own a dodge Ram.
I draw the line on executives getting arrested,like with a VW.
I draw the line with outright lies,Fiat is still under investigation,and they are guilty of nothing yet.
VW denied it till they fessed up.
VW was not a mistake,not a miscalculation,not an over sight-It was Fraud.
If Fiat is guilty of same-How In the world can I put an American flag on the back of an Italian jeep whose executives committed fraud?
I am asking for a reason to buy another jeep,I am not knocking the Brand,I feel the brand was accosted.
I don't want to buy one because everybody else cheats too, so why have standards.
All they had to do was not introduce a diesel,it looks like they may have chosen fraud instead.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#6
VW was not a loophole-7 people including one executive was arrested/indicted.
They are paying Billions in fines/reparations.
I do not see the link between VW/Fiat and Yunick.
I was looking forward to buying a new Jeep Pick up,now,not so much.
I truly hope that The EPA is wrong about Fiat/Jeep,but after VW,they know exactly what to look for.
 

jerseyjeeps

Crazy about AMC Jeeps
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Landing
State
NJ
#7
Normally I dont reply to these... however...
Car companies are given parameters for their vehicles to pass emissions tests. The car companies make their vehicles pass their the tests. The EPA doesn't like that the companies figured out loop holes. Think of Smokey Yunick from old school Nascar fame. He read the rules and modified his racecars so they followed the rules but gave him an edge. This is EXACTLY what car companies are doing.
anyways... I'll keep my old Jeeps.
The last sentence is all I need to live by, or be concerned about. If they ever take my old jeeps off the road for polluting the air 1000x more than a fiat-heep, then I'll move to another country.
 

Polarfire

Jeep Aficionado
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Columbia
State
MO
#8
There are a lot of politics involved here. Large international companies, EPA, State and Federal laws, a new Federal Administration...not that anyone has gone there yet but it can go that way easy. We keep politics off this board for a reason. I feel that Jeep as a brand will be fine. And I too will stick to my old "Made in the USA" Jeeps!
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#9
But thats the thing-It is Made in the Usa.
A Toyota Tundra is Made in the Usa.
So are we saying that a Toyota Made In the Usa is the Same as a Jeep made in the USA?
One of whose profits goes to Japan and The other to Italy?
I do not see any Politics here-Are we Changing the Definition of "Made in the usa"?
Are we as Jeep Lovers willing to accept This?Or Do we say No,we do not accept fraud as a way of doing business.
I am still looking for someone to show me the way back to JEEP.
If I want an Italian car,I would buy a Ferrari,If I want to get ripped off I would Bank at Wells Fargo.
Right now,I feel like selling My Dodge Ram,and Leaving Jeep Forever.
I would not even Be able to enter a new Jeep in an All American Car show.
I am Bummed out.
 

Belizeit

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
City
River Ridge
State
La
#10
Don't be surprised if Fiat looses their shirt or more and somebody else takes over the Jeep brand. I will never have a problem owning an American made Jeep. We have 2 bought new a long time ago. With the cost of a new one I may never get another one anyway
 

Rosco1974

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
West Haven
State
UT
#12
The history of emissions is long term continuous improvement with guaranteed short term failures.

In my government experience this is called "managing to your scorecard." The interpretation is "that which is not strictly prohibited is allowed" and do what you can to make your organization (company) look the best. The modern diesel trucks produce ridiculous, almost unneeded power for the average owner when tuned, but there is pressure on these manufacturers to prove/show they have the best torque and MPG out of the factory. The cars/SUVs are more MPG related. Couple that with poorly written US regulations, different standards in each country and a manufactures need to keep the baseline configuration/international parts list as small as possible..... SOFTWARE!!!!!

The fact is these manufactures just saved the consumer big $$$$ in buying a programmer. I will just keep my 2002 GMC Duramax until it dies. No factory emissions (EGR or CAT), new injectors and only 110K miles.
 

John N

Addicted....Ex-SOA VP
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
SOA Member
City
Rockville
State
VA
#13
Just like in racing, it's not cheating unless you get caught. Then you blame the poorly written rules.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#15
It did not work for VW.
And I doubt Fiat was better at cheating,In the car world,They are generally better than no one.
 

Polarfire

Jeep Aficionado
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Columbia
State
MO
#16
But thats the thing-It is Made in the Usa.
A Toyota Tundra is Made in the Usa.
So are we saying that a Toyota Made In the Usa is the Same as a Jeep made in the USA?
One of whose profits goes to Japan and The other to Italy?
I do not see any Politics here-Are we Changing the Definition of "Made in the usa"?
Are we as Jeep Lovers willing to accept This?Or Do we say No,we do not accept fraud as a way of doing business.
I am still looking for someone to show me the way back to JEEP.
If I want an Italian car,I would buy a Ferrari,If I want to get ripped off I would Bank at Wells Fargo.
Right now,I feel like selling My Dodge Ram,and Leaving Jeep Forever.
I would not even Be able to enter a new Jeep in an All American Car show.
I am Bummed out.
When I say "Made in the USA" that also includes "Owned in the USA".

I feel like this thread is somewhat pointless. Everyone has a different philosophy as do different companies. If you feel FCA or VW has affronted you then so be it and you are free to NOT buy their product. This forum is dedicated to Jeep CJ-8 Scramblers which, other then being a Jeep, has nothing in common with what is being produced and labeled "Jeep" today. Just look at VW and what has happened...people are still buying VW's. FCA will be hurt more because they aren't on as strong of a financial footing as VW but the Jeep brand will live on regardless and people will still buy them.
 
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jerseyjeeps

Crazy about AMC Jeeps
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Landing
State
NJ
#17
Well said Polarfire :cheers:

And I don't know of any car shows that would allow a Fiat-Jeep as an entry, from the true sense of the words "car show" :rotfl:
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#18
The thread is not pointless to me,I am honestly looking for insight as to why I should trust this company any more.
The Thread is Jeep Brand talk-and the Jeep brand may now be associated with a Company that may have committed fraud directly on jeep Diesel owners.
So loyal jeep owners put up with Fiats rebranded as Renegades or Patriots-jeeps that cannot go near an off road trail.
We put up with foreign ownership.
We put up with a jeep brand as patriotic as a Toyota Tundra or Toyota Sequoia-all made in the USA
Am I to put up with a company if on top of all this,commits Fraud?
Please someone tell me why I should have any confidence in this company anymore?
I have bought 3 brand new jeeps and 6 used ones along with a brand new Dodge Ram.
I have bought countless new factory parts.
I have been a loyal patron-and now all i see is potential fraud.
Somebody please give me insight that says different.
 

jerseyjeeps

Crazy about AMC Jeeps
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Landing
State
NJ
#19
You are going to have a lot of push back here tho because many of us drive something else daily that we have no complaints about and our jeep loyalty is in the 1980s and earlier , With some creep into the Chrysler owned years. I don't care what Fiat - Jeep does , I abondoned caring about anything jeep after about 2004 when Damler got hold of the Grand Cherokee and put a ridiculous Mercedes looking front end on it.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
#20
You cannot tell me that Scrambler owners are not interested in the new Jeep pick up coming.
I do not mind push back,I am looking for a reason to trust a company enough to purchase another new vehicle from them.
Right now all I have to hope for is that the EPA is wrong,and Fiat is in compliance.
VW denied it till they admitted it.
 
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