spankrjs's Biloxi, MS '83 Scrambler

[Belizeit]

Don’t toss them. I can probably maybe get my buddy to balance yours sometime maybe to see if there is a problem. If all else fails

 

[spankrjs]

I have the same tires on my blue Scrambler. They are very smooth going down the road. BUT, I had a hell of a time getting them to balance in the first 3 ish thousand miles. I would re balance them once every 700-1000 miles. The road force AND balance was way off every time. It's like they had to "break in" a bit. It was very annoying at first. But after a few thousand miles they drove very smooth and I haven't had to re balance them in a long time. I'll "check" the balance once a year like I do all my stuff, but haven't had to change anything so basically the problem went away.

I wondered about a "break in period", even though it seems odd. I only have maybe 1500 miles max on this set of tires. I'll keep them a bit longer and see if they get better

I was hoping you would chime in seeing as you have almost identical tires and they seem good to you

Any other tires I have ever bought have been smooth out the gate, so

If they don't get better, well, at least I know where to find you

 

[spankrjs]

Don’t toss them. I can probably maybe get my buddy to balance yours sometime maybe to see if there is a problem. If all else fails

If they don't get better I may have to take you up on that offer

 

[Belizeit]

If they don't get better I may have to take you up on that offer

It’s one of those, on the down low things

 

[designerRob]

Its funny, I have been to four separate shops, and each one says the previous shop did not balance them correctly. I have never had this much problem balancing tires before in my life. Find it hard to believe that all four shops incorrectly balanced the tires, but who knows

Ya, that's f'g crazy. Very frustrating.

 

[ag4ever]

Its funny, I have been to four separate shops, and each one says the previous shop did not balance them correctly. I have never had this much problem balancing tires before in my life. Find it hard to believe that all four shops incorrectly balanced the tires, but who knows

Do you have paperwork showing 4 shops tried to balance them? If so, I would contact BFG and send them that as evidence there is an issue. I suspect a broken belt in a tire that can’t be easily detected.

 

[Ron84cj]

Do you have paperwork showing 4 shops tried to balance them? If so, I would contact BFG and send them that as evidence there is an issue. I suspect a broken belt in a tire that can’t be easily detected.

This is a good thought. However whenever I came across a broken belt in the tire it would present itself doing a road force balance. Normally to correct road force you pop both beads on the tire, then rotate the tire on the rim. Re inflate and re road force balance it. The road force will change, sometimes better and other times worse. You sometimes have to rotate the tire on the rim a few times before you get it in spec. A broken belt in the tire won't allow you to do this. It will show a terrible road force balance no matter what you do.

 

[spankrjs]

Do you have paperwork showing 4 shops tried to balance them? If so, I would contact BFG and send them that as evidence there is an issue. I suspect a broken belt in a tire that can’t be easily detected.

Yep, have all the paperwork

 

[Belizeit]

Never had any problem with BFGs

 

[Randyzzz]

This is a good thought. However whenever I came across a broken belt in the tire it would present itself doing a road force balance. Normally to correct road force you pop both beads on the tire, then rotate the tire on the rim. Re inflate and re road force balance it. The road force will change, sometimes better and other times worse. You sometimes have to rotate the tire on the rim a few times before you get it in spec. A broken belt in the tire won't allow you to do this. It will show a terrible road force balance no matter what you do.

This. I spent many years balancing tires, I was management but always got called to balance the difficult stuff. I was BFG certified for many years. Sometimes you have to break down and remount 180 out to get a smooth ride. Also, if you look at the weight placement and there are weights in more than one spot per side, it isn’t balanced right. I also believe that the new “low speed” balancers don’t do as good a job on truck tires as the older high speed balancers. Lastly, using chalk while on the balancer can find a lot of issues. I would hold the chalk so it would barely touch the sidewall or tread- you can see if the tire is out of round by reading the chalk marks.

And a break in period is pretty normal on truck tires.

 

[spankrjs]

I took this one on a 2 hour drive a few weekends ago, forgot to pay attention, but no more vibration!! Drove it around this past Saturday for about 3 hours, various road types and even the interstate, no more tire vibration.

I am going to have to say @Ron84cj was correct, the new BFG AT's just needed to break in.

 

[spankrjs]

I also "think" I cured my other annoying issue. I thought that maybe the pilot bushing was seizing on the transmission input shaft. I was getting some strange noises, once the transmission was hot, when shifting. Not grinding, almost like a slight squeal. With the engine running, you could push the clutch in without shifting, no noise. The noise would only occur once you moved the shifter. Once in gear, no noise. So, before I pulled the transmission back out, got to thinking, what if the problem is with the synchronizers? All of them? That would be odd, so did one more easy repair attempt, lets drain the T5 again!!!



I initially filled the transmission with Valvoline MTF. I drained this out awhile back and refilled with Pennzoil Syncromesh. I use the MTF in my red Scrambler AX15, no issues/complaints. I have used the Pennzoil in a few T5's, again no problems.

Just for shits and giggles, I filled the T5 up with this stuff:





It is 75w-90, yellow metal safe, synthetic stuff. The kid at NAPA sold it to me for $15 a bottle, so worth a shot. I would have tried conventional 75w-90 gear oil, BUT both the Valvoline/NAPA stuff I usually purchase no longer says yellow metal safe, for use only in unsynchronized manual transmissions. Something to watch out for......

From my redneck tests, it feels kind of watery, like the Valvoline MTF/Pennzoil Synchromesh, not as thick as regular gear oil, kind of in between. Tastes like grapedrank.......

Put it in, 2 hour test drive, no more noises. The shifting was smooth/notch free before, but feels even better/smoother/slippery now, if that makes sense. More driving needed, but so far so good Not too shabby for $30/30 minutes.

 

[spankrjs]

Nope, noise still there intermittently once hot

Drove it about 200 miles today. After about 2 hours, in traffic/lots of red lights, heard it briefly once. On the way back home, again in lots of traffic/red lights, made the noise a few times.

It shifts fine, no grinding/knocking/kicking out of gear. Just makes noise sometimes. Only at low speeds shifting into 2 or 1, or from neutral to 1. No vibrations or shifting issues, clutch does not slip or pulsate.

When I got back home, put the transfer case in 0neutral. With engine running, clutch out, you can shift up and down 1-4 no problems (reverse and 5th need the clutch pushed down). So, pretty sure all the synchronizers are fine. No strange sounds with clutch out and transmission in gear or neutral., countershaft and bearings sound fine.

So, with Dana 300 in neutral still, pushed the clutch down, held engine at around 1500 RPM, I get the noise. Does not matter if the transmission is in neutral, in gear, or moving between gears. With clutch pushed in, RPM's up the noise is there.

So, starting to think the throw out bearing is the culprit. Makes sense, intermittent, happens when shifting gears (clutch down), sounds like a bearing.

So, sometime in the near future I will be pulling this T5 back out to investigate/potentially replace a barely used release bearing

 

[mhinchliffe]

So, sometime in the near future I will be pulling this T5 back out to investigate/potentially replace a barely used release bearing

Welcome to my world...........Get the TOB from NAPA and be done with it. Best of luck.

 

[Belizeit]

He probably got it there.

 

[don87401]

Nope, noise still there intermittently once hot

Drove it about 200 miles today. After about 2 hours, in traffic/lots of red lights, heard it briefly once. On the way back home, again in lots of traffic/red lights, made the noise a few times.

It shifts fine, no grinding/knocking/kicking out of gear. Just makes noise sometimes. Only at low speeds shifting into 2 or 1, or from neutral to 1. No vibrations or shifting issues, clutch does not slip or pulsate.

When I got back home, put the transfer case in 0neutral. With engine running, clutch out, you can shift up and down 1-4 no problems (reverse and 5th need the clutch pushed down). So, pretty sure all the synchronizers are fine. No strange sounds with clutch out and transmission in gear or neutral., countershaft and bearings sound fine.

So, with Dana 300 in neutral still, pushed the clutch down, held engine at around 1500 RPM, I get the noise. Does not matter if the transmission is in neutral, in gear, or moving between gears. With clutch pushed in, RPM's up the noise is there.

So, starting to think the throw out bearing is the culprit. Makes sense, intermittent, happens when shifting gears (clutch down), sounds like a bearing.

So, sometime in the near future I will be pulling this T5 back out to investigate/potentially replace a barely used release bearing

You got to what I was thinking while reading this post the noise is in front of the transmission, not the transmission or back, throw out bearing is what pop into my head while reading.

 

[spankrjs]

So, sometime in the near future I will be pulling this T5 back out to investigate/potentially replace a barely used release bearing

Welcome to my world...........Get the TOB from NAPA and be done with it. Best of luck.

Looking at my notes on my red Scrambler, I first used a N1444, then a few years later a N144SA, both from NAPA. No problem with the SKF N144SA I am using a LUK clutch and LUK flywheel, both from NAPA, a locally sourced pilot bushing. That set up seems to be working perfectly.

 

[spankrjs]

He probably got it there. View attachment 107583

Unfortunately, looks like I purchased a LUK clutch kit and LUK flywheel for this one from RockAuto for some reason. That is OK, but for some reason I purchased and installed a cheap National 614115 release bearing, according to my receipts/notes from back in the 1st quarter of 2017. No idea why I used the cheap TOB???

 

[spankrjs]

You got to what I was thinking while reading this post the noise is in front of the transmission, not the transmission or back, throw out bearing is what pop into my head while reading.

Yep, great minds think alike

After yardwork and before camping out on the couch watching football, did a little more diagnostics. I have good free play, all linkage in good shape, all bell housing and transmission bolts/mounts tight.

Engine running, light pressure on pedal, you can hear it lightly "whir" if you listen close. The more pressure on pedal, more noise. Raise RPM with pedal down, it gets louder and you can feel a tiny amount of vibration through the pedal.

I have this same clutch in my red Scrambler. With engine off in red, push pedal down, no odd noise. On green, a strange sound.

So, hopefully just a bad/cheap throw out bearing prematurely failing. When I looked back in this thread from early 2017, I said if this T5 lasted 5 years it would be a success. Well, it has!! But, I bet I only have around 5,000 miles since all the engine/drive line work, so definitely sucks to have to go this deep back inside to swap out something I never should have installed.

Oh well, no sense crying about it, will start tearing it down later on this week. Besides, with all my previous T5 adventures, should be a piece of cake, famous last words

 

[spankrjs]

Worked on it for about an hour after work tonight, before football. Pulled carpet, shifter knobs and boots, floor plate, both driveshafts, disconnected the Dana 300 vent/speedometer/VSS........



I think I can just about pull a T5 with my eyes closed