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starter won't crank

D

DRdalequail

Basic User
City
San Angelo
State
TX
My '81 Scrambler (258, 6-cyl) has a wiring issue . . . somewhere. And no, I don't even pretend to be a mechanic. When I turn the ignition key the starter won't crank. I've replaced the solenoid to no avail. I can start the engine fine by shorting across the solenoid with a pair of pliers. Is there a fuse, fuse-able link, or some relay that could be burned out? I've traced the larger red wire from solenoid back to firewall and can't see any fuse (I was told there WAS an in-line fuse). This issue may have started when some dummy jumped my battery and had the cables reversed . . . ok, it was me! Any ideas much appreciated.
 
FLCJ8

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
City
Palm Bay
State
FL
DRdalequail said:
My '81 Scrambler (258, 6-cyl) has a wiring issue . . . somewhere. And no, I don't even pretend to be a mechanic. When I turn the ignition key the starter won't crank. I've replaced the solenoid to no avail. I can start the engine fine by shorting across the solenoid with a pair of pliers. Is there a fuse, fuse-able link, or some relay that could be burned out? I've traced the larger red wire from solenoid back to firewall and can't see any fuse (I was told there WAS an in-line fuse). This issue may have started when some dummy jumped my battery and had the cables reversed . . . ok, it was me! Any ideas much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum.

There is a fusible link, however it should be ahead of your ignition switch. Since the Jeep starts by jumping the solenoid it should be fine.
A test light would be very helpful.
The solenoid needs to have a good ground as well as power to engage.
Are you sure that the new solenoid is the correct one? The one for an auto has a separate terminal for the ground through the neutral safety switch.
If you have an auto this needs to see ground through the NSS in order for the solenoid to operate. If you have a manual you can just ground this terminal permanently.
You can try momentarily jumpering from the battery positive to the ignition terminal on the solenoid to simulate the ignition switch being turned to "start" to test the solenoid.
Did I mention a test light would be helpful? :rolleyes:
It sounds like the problem is the ignition switch/wiring or solenoid problem. It should be simple to determine with a few simple tests.
A few pics may help as well.
 
Spieg

Spieg

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Aurora
State
CO
Agree with FLCJ8, an inexpensive test light (they only cost a few dollars) would be very useful in figuring out what is happening. Do your switched electronics (radio etc...) work when you turn the key? If not then the problem may be with the ignition switch.
 
D

DRdalequail

Basic User
City
San Angelo
State
TX
It's a standard transmission. The NSS wire was never connected. I did get a test light, but now "where to test?" Batt to starter (coming out of solenoid)? Batt to one or both posts of the solenoid? Ignition switch "on" I suppose?

Posting this image; it looks like this one to me; I will double-check the solenoid ground to the fender well

.https://www.google.com/search?site=...4k1.PWbT_moEFP4#imgrc=DQDRb3FTnsoy9M:&spf=484

Thanks!

DR
 
FLCJ8

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
City
Palm Bay
State
FL
DRdalequail said:
It's a standard transmission. The NSS wire was never connected. I did get a test light, but now "where to test?" Batt to starter (coming out of solenoid)? Batt to one or both posts of the solenoid? Ignition switch "on" I suppose?

Posting this image; it looks like this one to me; I will double-check the solenoid ground to the fender well

.https://www.google.com/search?site=...4k1.PWbT_moEFP4#imgrc=DQDRb3FTnsoy9M:&spf=484

Thanks!

DR
Click to expand...

The mounting bracket for the manual trans. solenoid needs a good ground to operate.
The auto trans, solenoid gets it's ground through the stud (#3 in pic)
If the new solenoid has the terminal for a NSS, and you have a manual, the terminal needs to be permanently grounded.
(The NSS prevents the starter from engaging when the auto is not in park or neutral. When it is in park or neutral the terminal is grounded through the switch.)

This is the manual:
manual.PNG
This is the auto:
auto.PNG
You can do a couple solenoid tests without assistance with just a jumper wire, but further testing will require the test light and assistance.

* Make sure trans. is in neutral and parking brake is set*
1.) Make sure the solenoid bracket/ground stud has a good ground by attaching a jumper from battery negative to bracket/stud.
2.) Try starting with ignition switch.
2a.) If it cranks, provide proper ground.
3.) If it doesn't start, (leave temp. ground jumper connected) remove wire from "S" terminal on solenoid and momentarily jump battery "+" terminal to solenoid "S" terminal.
3a.) If motor cranks then there is a problem in the ignition switch/wiring.
4.) If it doesn't crank, the solenoid is defective or you have insufficient battery voltage. (unlikely since you were able to crank it previously)

Let us know what your results are and we can move on to the next steps if necessary.
 
Spieg

Spieg

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Aurora
State
CO
Assuming your ground connection is good - Use the test light to see if you have voltage at the blue wire (this energizes the relay to power the starter). If it gets voltage when you turn the key to start (and only when key is held in the start position), then the starter relay is probably bad. If it does not show voltage then you need to trace the blue wire back until you find the problem.
 
D

DRdalequail

Basic User
City
San Angelo
State
TX
I tried steps 1-4 to no avail; went and purchased new solenoid. Still nothing. Tried Step 3 with new solenoid and it started (but not via ignition key, via jumping). BUT the bendix (is that what it's called? On top of the starter) does not disengage, so I killed motor. Tried it again and same thing, so i'm done for the day. Still perplexed in TX.
 
FLCJ8

FLCJ8

Legacy Registered User
City
Palm Bay
State
FL
DRdalequail said:
Will try this tomorrow . . . where is the starter relay located??
Click to expand...
The starter relay and solenoid are the same item.

DRdalequail said:
I tried steps 1-4 to no avail; went and purchased new solenoid. Still nothing. Tried Step 3 with new solenoid and it started (but not via ignition key, via jumping). BUT the bendix (is that what it's called? On top of the starter) does not disengage, so I killed motor. Tried it again and same thing, so i'm done for the day. Still perplexed in TX.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "killed motor"?
Was the ignition key in the "off" position and the wire disconnected from "S" terminal?
Did the bendix stay engaged after the jumper was removed?
 
D

DRdalequail

Basic User
City
San Angelo
State
TX
FLCJ8 said:
The starter relay and solenoid are the same item.


What do you mean by "killed motor"?
Was the ignition key in the "off" position and the wire disconnected from "S" terminal?
Did the bendix stay engaged after the jumper was removed?
Click to expand...

Key was "on" and wire was NOT disconnected. This morning I tried it with key "off" and wire from S terminal removed. Starter did try to turn over (I only tried it for a second). Have not traced back blue wire as suggested by Spieg, but will later today. Is there a fuse as part of the blue wire? I haven't seen one and the blue wire goes into the firewall.
 
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