CJ8/TJ Hybrid build

[rubclt]

On the track bar mount lots of options, maybe research Synergy… I suggest you get the weight of engine in the frame along with the steering box. Locating the track bar and drag link is very precise… 1-2 inch off and bump steer will appear… another issue is getting axle forward and steering clearance… you need fenders in place to determine and the inner fenders have to be cut around shock towers… which means tub needs to be mocked up…

 

[JL in CA]

I was under the impression that an emissions intact swap was legal in California. You just need to have it approved once then just a normal annual inspection thereafter. If thats the case a TBI 350 or pre 06 LS wouldn't be a difficult thing to get approved.

I'm not positive if it is or isn't possible, but there is a Facebook group called Californians for Classic Car Smog Exemtions and there never seems to be anything not difficult about even approved mods. Even my MPI Kit, with the correct stickers noting the all CARB approvals is a pain to smog every year. Easier to just replace with a visual match.

 

[JL in CA]

On the track bar mount lots of options, maybe research Synergy… I suggest you get the weight of engine in the frame along with the steering box. Locating the track bar and drag link is very precise… 1-2 inch off and bump steer will appear… another issue is getting axle forward and steering clearance… you need fenders in place to determine and the inner fenders have to be cut around shock towers… which means tub needs to be mocked up…

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not worried about the fenders - they will either fit or not and I'll trim them and reinforce the fiberglass as needed. Those spring and shock towers aren't moving and the driver side of that area is going to be crowded with the upper arm bracket, steering shaft, fender brace, clutch linkage (probably change to hydraulic), front drive shaft, main electrical harness connector, computer for the MPI, exhaust - ooof, fun just thinking about it.

I was thinking frame side track bar bracket would be welded in at some "correct" distance referenced from the frame spring mounts and the axle location forward/back based on spring angle at drive height though I guess that could be altered with the upper arm for any given height. I've simulated the engine weight reasonably well with the tie downs (weight of my sons and I sitting on the frame at the engine location (engine is 500lbs, radiator, fluids, etc. I figure 600-ish total. Its close and doesn't change too much with static 100lbs added or subtracted. I can always wait and weld in the track bar bracket once the engine is in but just a "nice to have" if its on for powdercoat.

 

[rubclt]

The location of front axle can change front to back with adjustable control arms. You want is as far forward to clear the 35” tire in the rear of the front wheel well. But, the steering box, drag link and track bar all have to clear too… locating the Track Bar on frame will depend on where the front axle sits. In addition setting caster and pinion angle will impact the tie rod hitting the pumpkin as it turns.

I had to adjust all this to get drivability in Jeep after it was assembled and I wish I spent the time in mock up to get this right because after powder coating the frame it’s tough to cut and RE weld brackets. That’s my lesson… others may have input on their experience…

 

[Belizeit]

It's little wonder why so many California residents are flocking to other states. Where does this madness all end?

When the big one hits, and it snaps off and slides into the abyss, or when hell freezes over, or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[JL in CA]

The location of front axle can change front to back with adjustable control arms. You want is as far forward to clear the 35” tire in the rear of the front wheel well. But, the steering box, drag link and track bar all have to clear too… locating the Track Bar on frame will depend on where the front axle sits. In addition setting caster and pinion angle will impact the tie rod hitting the pumpkin as it turns.

I had to adjust all this to get drivability in Jeep after it was assembled and I wish I spent the time in mock up to get this right because after powder coating the frame it’s tough to cut and RE weld brackets. That’s my lesson… others may have input on their experience…

Got it - that makes sense. I knew I could adjust it but clearing the tires was not a reason I had considered. I think I'll get the drag link/tie rod ordered, mount a steering box and check some clearances before welding the track bar bracket. Worst case, I can powder coat without it. I do not want to be grinding things off after but adding isn't quite as bad. Thanks @rubclt

 

[JL in CA]

Rock Jock Steering linkage arrived and added. I still have to mock it up with the steering box but box still installed in my CJ though so not sure when I'll do that. In talking to my son who recently organized the parts, we already had a trac bar (also Rock Jock). That takes a bit of modifying the axle side (drill out the hole and make room to get their backing plate/bolt in) but also uses a johnny joint on the frame side set up for stock bracket that has the bolt coming up vertical through that end of the trac bar. I can't seem to find an aftermarket bracket that uses that mounting type. That end of the bar is welded so it can't be rotated or the geometry of the bar won't be correct. Any ideas on a bracket for it? Rock Jock doesn't make one I can find.

 

[rubclt]

The bolt circled goes on frame side track bar like lower photo. Need more photos to understand your question.

 

[JL in CA]

The bolt circled goes on frame side track bar like lower photo. Need more photos to understand your question.

Exactly BUT with the blank hybrid frame, I have no frame side mount (and I need to buy one). All the aftermarket frame side brackets I can find use a trac bar frame side joint flipped 90 degrees like the photo in this post. I can’t flip the bar I show in the photos as the frame side joint is fixed.

 

[rubclt]

I see the challenge now… might have to make a bracket to use that track bar. This location up and down is critical to have it parallel with drag link. How to measure link:

Bump Steer? How To Fix: Measure Your Drag Link and Track Bar to Make them Parallel

Bump-steer Solutions and Causes, by Kevin from KOR Cause: The Drag Link and Track Bar on a coil-sprung vehicle are out-of-parallel. (affects some coil-sprung Dodge, Jeep, and Ford models) Result: You hit a bump, and the steering wheel moves first one direction, then the other direction. The...

kevinsoffroad.com

Read the first comment in the article post at bottom.

This photo from internet might help too.


Suggest lots of research on this area or talk to a custom shop for help.

Another option might include replacing track bar and get bracket like this kit from Metal Cloak:

TJ Front Long Arm Durotrak Track Bar

The MetalCloak TJ Front Long Arm Durotrak Heavy Duty Adjustable Track Bar is designed strong to meet the demands of on and off-road driving for your lifted Jeep. Features include: Highest Clearance 3/16" Steel Plate Heavy Duty Weld on Drop Down Bracket Engineered for BIG Down-travel & Up-travel...

metalcloak.com

 

[Jeeper_4_Life]

The trackbar link you have is made to go on stock TJ mounts for those that do not want to cut off old frame mount bracket or fab something. No one probably makes a stock replacement because it is single shear and weak vs the heavier versions Barns 4WD, Genright, Ruffstuff, Artec etc all make to replace it with double shear. They probably also have more area on the frame to weld which makes them better than stock version. The Currie track bar you have already has angle welded into between the joint and the tube from the picture posted. Even if you ran it in double shear it would be at some what of an angle to the track bar vs inline. You are probably better off selling that trackbar you have, find another, and buy the bracket from some place. If you want to use the trackbar you have, you will probably have to find a TJ in a junkyard and cut the frame side mount off of it.

 

[JeepBilly]

First post, though it has been in the works for a while, very slowly. Originally started for my son to drive wehn he got his license. He turns 17 this week and has been driving for around 8 months... Time to hit the gas before his brother gets HIS license in September. Details as follows:

Year: 81
Model: CJ-8 / TJ Hybrid
Final/current tire size: 35"

Build details (all new unless noted):
-TKD hybrid CJ8/TJ frame
-Currie Crate Axles with E-lockers and 4.56 gears
Front High Pinion Dana 44, Vanco super 16 Brakes from Black Magic
Rear Currie Dana 60 with Bridge Kit, standard Explorer brakes
- Savvy Mid Arm Suspension (haven't decided on shocks yet)
- Atlas Transfer case (new for TJ driverside offset - replacing Dana 300)
- SM465 transmission (existing)
- Fiberglass Tub (existing)
- Fuel 18x9 wheels
- Nitto Terra Grappler G2 LT285/75R18 tires (basically 35 x 11.25 helps not be so wide a stance)
- Engine TBD - existing to start (4.2L with mopar MPI kit - we live in California so can't swap in an LS or anything. Maybe a stroker later).

Biggest challenge so far is adapting suspension brackets/geometry to work with the axles and frame. Many of the reference points for the Savvy kit are measured off TJ reference points. At this point its all tacked, ready to burn in but I would love to get Blaine to take a look first while changes are still relatively easy...

Ok, there - its officially started. I'll post some photos soon of the roller.

I’m also in CA and kicking off a rebuild soon myself.

Have you looked at the LS3 E-Rod? Pricey but includes all wiring, cats, etc.

 

[ManBuck]

i know lots of examples of CJ7 & CJ8 LS swaps in california. Regardless, I respect you following the rules man. Congrats on the build. Its going to be awesome.
Keep sending us updates, esp w pics. I have a similar build I'm doing as well. Here in CO i dont think we have the same limitations.

Mine: TDK CJ8/TJ-hybrid frame but w/ rear suspension moved back to approx 118" (rear measurements of suspension in same rear position as a CJ7; measures from the rear). CJ8 grill w Jeepster ears welded on + stretched jeepster hood to fit.
LS 6.2 + 6L80e + Atlas, Terraflex D60 front & rear.

Best of luck in your build bro.

 

[JL in CA]

I’m also in CA and kicking off a rebuild soon myself.

Have you looked at the LS3 E-Rod? Pricey but includes all wiring, cats, etc.

I haven't. Ultimately I'll start with the engine/trans/ I own. I looked at flipping my dana 300 t-case too but that comes with a different set of problems. Down the road if my son decides to do an LS swap, he can have at it (on his dime )

 

[JL in CA]

The trackbar link you have is made to go on stock TJ mounts for those that do not want to cut off old frame mount bracket or fab something. No one probably makes a stock replacement because it is single shear and weak vs the heavier versions Barns 4WD, Genright, Ruffstuff, Artec etc all make to replace it with double shear. They probably also have more area on the frame to weld which makes them better than stock version. The Currie track bar you have already has angle welded into between the joint and the tube from the picture posted. Even if you ran it in double shear it would be at some what of an angle to the track bar vs inline. You are probably better off selling that trackbar you have, find another, and buy the bracket from some place. If you want to use the trackbar you have, you will probably have to find a TJ in a junkyard and cut the frame side mount off of it.

Yep - that's basically what Currie said too - I told them I see a hole in their product offerings... I could fab a nice bracket myself too but seems like more work than its worth. Anyone looking for a Currie front trac bar for a TJ, LMK! (yes, I'll post on the wrangler forum I've joined for the hybrid build too). Thanks

 

[barrys]

Part # and price for the tracbar?

 

[JL in CA]

Looks great… I have the Vanco knuckles on my LJ with big brake kit… since you have this it will be easier to run the TJ inverted Y steering. Cross over would require new knuckle or modifications to knuckles. Next question is the front axle stock width? If so, you can use the Rockjock https://www.rockjock4x4.com/CE-9701

Depending on lift height, will set size for pitman arm.

The TDK frame is great and bolting in axles is fun… the drivability will be determined in the steering setup… I made a lot of adjustments here from trail and error and hopefully this is helpful.

Talking to Blaine, he mentioned the inside frame rail measurement compared to a stock TJ as it releated to being able to adjust the Rockjock steering - he had a measurement of 28 1/4" for a TJ. I thought that was inside rail to inside rail. When I look online the outside to outside width of ao TJ is 32 1/4 but my frame is significantly narrower in the front - like 25.5" inside rail to inside rail. That said, the TJ antisway bar fit left to right inside the hybrid frame so it would seem like the width there is the same at least of the tube. I guess what I'm asking is if you had an issue the distance to the passenger side knuckle on the hybrid frame using the Rockjock steering system? I know there is a little adjustability in the inverted Y.

 

[rubclt]

@JL in CA on my TDK, I used a JK knuckle and have cross over steering setup. I had Carolina Metal Masters build custom length tie rod and drag link. If you need any measurements to compare let me know.

 

[JL in CA]

@JL in CA on my TDK, I used a JK knuckle and have cross over steering setup. I had Carolina Metal Masters build custom length tie rod and drag link. If you need any measurements to compare let me know.

Got it. I’ll crank down the distances and see how it mocks up. I’m sure Blaine will tell me if its not gonna work… I’m going to take it to him one of these weekends to check my midarm brackets, etc.

 

[JL in CA]

Well, its been a long while since I've posted anything on this but I did visit Blaine, and he was good with my suspension bracket locations. With that we burned in the brackets and powder coated the frame a few months ago. I'm still going to have to weld in some brackets but that's just the way it has to be or I'll never finish.

With that, over the holidays we moved the tub off the old frame and temporarily set it on the new. Then we pulled the eng/trans/t-case. I decided to do a flip on the Dana 300 with a kit from Behemoth drive train. Wasn't cheap but my 300 is nearly newly rebuilt and so is the SM465, already adapted, etc. Went well and being able to relocate the shifters with cables is very handy given all the other interference details.

We were able to get the engine and trans into the new frame with tub on (sort of - still fine tuning to do). I'm a little stuck on the engine mounts. I left all the mounts and brackets on the engine and just disconnected them from the old frame. They SEEM to get on the new frame with the engine in. I did flip the sides of them to move the engine offset to the passenger side. Will give me a little more room on drivers side and also balance my weight in the drivers seat, lol. I'm keeping the 258 and just goign to get a Golen stroker - just easier to drop in and I can use the current engine to mock things up.

OH, and the old rolling chassis is available - nice locking hubs on the front, stong one piece axles in the rear. Open to offers on pieces/parts.

Attaching some pics for now (body is on blocks in the front so its sitting tall). Yes, it does rain ocasionally in SoCal. Made for a messy week of work...

Joe