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Gauges stay powered when ignition in “off” position. Help!!

Chipster1990

Chipster1990

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I, fairly recently, installed the new Painless wiring harness into my ‘83 Scrambler. I believe I wired up everything correctly. All the gauges and lights work as they should and the jeep runs good (I also installed a Holley Sniper EFI ath the same time).
The issue I have is that the gauges stay on when the key is in the “off” position with the key removed. For now, I just pull the fuse for the gauges so it doesn’t drain the battery. But can anyone tell me what I might have done wrong and how to correct this?
Thanks in advance!
 
@Chipster1990 I had that EXACT issue when I installed my painless harness. I reverified everything and I did it right. I worked with painless and it turned out to be a bad pin placement into the bulkhead adapter that connects both sides of the kit together through the dash. They sent me the wire position CAD drawing of the bulkheads, and I used that to find out they reversed two wires when they assembled the bulkhead. I swapped the wires, and it fixed it. The always hot was placed into the keyed-on connector.
I'm not at my home computer but I have the diagram and pics.

Will try and find tonight. If I don't respond. Message me as I probably just forgot.
 
Last edited:
Okay. I found my pics showing the problem I had. I am so glad I took tons of digital pics during the build process. They have saved my own butt a few times. Maybe they will help you out. Hopefully that is what you have going on.

Here is what I found and sent to Painless:
  • I have a lot of circuits working when the ignition key is OFF or completely out of the column:
    • Blower motor for heater fan
    • Turn signals
    • Parking brake light
    • Volt meter
    • Fuel gauge
  • I checked the fuse box and when the key is OFF, every fuse is hot except RADIO and COIL
  • The key cranks when it is in the start position
  • The key turns on the accessories like the radio when in the accessory position
  • The YELLOW # 933 "Switched Ign Power to Fuse block" wire at the ignition switch connector is always hot in all key positions
The problem:

These two wires were assembled by Painless incorrectly. Their position was reversed and essentially fed always on power to the circuits on the fuse block.

1742948757730.png

1742949307956.png

To get to them, you have to disconnect the fuse block assembly under the dashboard from the engine side block. Then separate the two pieces of the fuse block assembly. Like this:

1742949420326.png

These two wires are on the bottom side. I carefully removed the wires by depressing the pins inside the hole and reversed their position. Everything worked as it should after that.

After I got it fixed, this is what I sent to Painless:
  • I was able to extract the wires and connect them properly and after reassembly, everything works as it should! 😊
  • I have spent many hours troubleshooting this and triple checking that I did not wire anything incorrectly. Lots of those are on my back contorting my body to get up under the dashboard. Only to find it was assembled incorrectly at Painless. I am disappointed this was missed in quality control. Definitely not a Painless experience for me.
  • I very much appreciate your help and sending over the schematics so we could find the problem.
  • If I know anyone else purchasing a harness, I will tell them to check ALL wires against the schematic before starting the install.
  • Now, I can move forward with the rest of my project!
Other than this issue, the Painless harness is awesome. Should last many years and the installation manual is helpful even if you don't use their harness. I carry a PDF copy downloaded to my iPad in case I need to troubleshoot any electrical issue on a trail. But this was a BIG issue that sucked many hours. I have a lot of custom adaptations that mapped their wiring to the custom gauge set I run in my custom dashboard. I spent a lot of time laying that out to make sure it was correct. I checked and re-checked many times and could not find anything wrong with my wiring only to find it was a Painless quality control issue.

Let me know what you find in the end. Good luck! I know how frustrating this is!

George
 
gpassida said:
Okay. I found my pics showing the problem I had. I am so glad I took tons of digital pics during the build process. They have saved my own butt a few times. Maybe they will help you out. Hopefully that is what you have going on.

Here is what I found and sent to Painless:
  • I have a lot of circuits working when the ignition key is OFF or completely out of the column:
    • Blower motor for heater fan
    • Turn signals
    • Parking brake light
    • Volt meter
    • Fuel gauge
  • I checked the fuse box and when the key is OFF, every fuse is hot except RADIO and COIL
  • The key cranks when it is in the start position
  • The key turns on the accessories like the radio when in the accessory position
  • The YELLOW # 933 "Switched Ign Power to Fuse block" wire at the ignition switch connector is always hot in all key positions
The problem:

These two wires were assembled by Painless incorrectly. Their position was reversed and essentially fed always on power to the circuits on the fuse block.

View attachment 116492

View attachment 116494

To get to them, you have to disconnect the fuse block assembly under the dashboard from the engine side block. Then separate the two pieces of the fuse block assembly. Like this:

View attachment 116495

These two wires are on the bottom side. I carefully removed the wires by depressing the pins inside the hole and reversed their position. Everything worked as it should after that.

After I got it fixed, this is what I sent to Painless:
  • I was able to extract the wires and connect them properly and after reassembly, everything works as it should! 😊
  • I have spent many hours troubleshooting this and triple checking that I did not wire anything incorrectly. Lots of those are on my back contorting my body to get up under the dashboard. Only to find it was assembled incorrectly at Painless. I am disappointed this was missed in quality control. Definitely not a Painless experience for me.
  • I very much appreciate your help and sending over the schematics so we could find the problem.
  • If I know anyone else purchasing a harness, I will tell them to check ALL wires against the schematic before starting the install.
  • Now, I can move forward with the rest of my project!
Other than this issue, the Painless harness is awesome. Should last many years and the installation manual is helpful even if you don't use their harness. I carry a PDF copy downloaded to my iPad in case I need to troubleshoot any electrical issue on a trail. But this was a BIG issue that sucked many hours. I have a lot of custom adaptations that mapped their wiring to the custom gauge set I run in my custom dashboard. I spent a lot of time laying that out to make sure it was correct. I checked and re-checked many times and could not find anything wrong with my wiring only to find it was a Painless quality control issue.

Let me know what you find in the end. Good luck! I know how frustrating this is!

George
Click to expand...
George,
That is exactly the same issues I am having. The exact same gauges/lights/fan motor staying powered when keyed off!! You are a lifesaver. I won’t have time until next week to get under the dash and pull the harness from the bulkhead and reverse those two wires, but I will definitely let you know how it turns out.
I owe you a steak dinner!!

Chip
 
gpassida said:
Okay. I found my pics showing the problem I had. I am so glad I took tons of digital pics during the build process. They have saved my own butt a few times. Maybe they will help you out. Hopefully that is what you have going on.

Here is what I found and sent to Painless:
  • I have a lot of circuits working when the ignition key is OFF or completely out of the column:
    • Blower motor for heater fan
    • Turn signals
    • Parking brake light
    • Volt meter
    • Fuel gauge
  • I checked the fuse box and when the key is OFF, every fuse is hot except RADIO and COIL
  • The key cranks when it is in the start position
  • The key turns on the accessories like the radio when in the accessory position
  • The YELLOW # 933 "Switched Ign Power to Fuse block" wire at the ignition switch connector is always hot in all key positions
The problem:

These two wires were assembled by Painless incorrectly. Their position was reversed and essentially fed always on power to the circuits on the fuse block.

View attachment 116492

View attachment 116494

To get to them, you have to disconnect the fuse block assembly under the dashboard from the engine side block. Then separate the two pieces of the fuse block assembly. Like this:

View attachment 116495

These two wires are on the bottom side. I carefully removed the wires by depressing the pins inside the hole and reversed their position. Everything worked as it should after that.

After I got it fixed, this is what I sent to Painless:
  • I was able to extract the wires and connect them properly and after reassembly, everything works as it should! 😊
  • I have spent many hours troubleshooting this and triple checking that I did not wire anything incorrectly. Lots of those are on my back contorting my body to get up under the dashboard. Only to find it was assembled incorrectly at Painless. I am disappointed this was missed in quality control. Definitely not a Painless experience for me.
  • I very much appreciate your help and sending over the schematics so we could find the problem.
  • If I know anyone else purchasing a harness, I will tell them to check ALL wires against the schematic before starting the install.
  • Now, I can move forward with the rest of my project!
Other than this issue, the Painless harness is awesome. Should last many years and the installation manual is helpful even if you don't use their harness. I carry a PDF copy downloaded to my iPad in case I need to troubleshoot any electrical issue on a trail. But this was a BIG issue that sucked many hours. I have a lot of custom adaptations that mapped their wiring to the custom gauge set I run in my custom dashboard. I spent a lot of time laying that out to make sure it was correct. I checked and re-checked many times and could not find anything wrong with my wiring only to find it was a Painless quality control issue.

Let me know what you find in the end. Good luck! I know how frustrating this is!

George
Click to expand...
@bigwalton
Now this information with the bulkhead pin out needs to be in the Tech Library.
Invaluable information for a simple check that the wiring is correct before installing.

I had remembered someone on a Jeep forums posted a similar problem with switched wires years ago but was unable to find it.
Thanks @gpassida.
 
Thanks for sharing. I'm about done with mine. My painless moment came when I tried to make this connection.

1743260026513.png

Ends up they got a bad batch of connectors. After a couple of hours trying to make it fit, replacing the column harness, and a phone call, they sent a new one. Other than that, I've been impressed with the harness, supplies included, and the manual. I'm now at this point of getting to ready to test the system.

1743260192747.png

Unfortunately, both of my chargers need to detect a minimum voltage to power up, which I don't believe can happen in this scenario. So I am thinking I look for a charger that doesn't have this built in feature or just hook it up to the battery and go for it.
 
xatu40 said:
Thanks for sharing. I'm about done with mine. My painless moment came when I tried to make this connection.



Ends up they got a bad batch of connectors. After a couple of hours trying to make it fit, replacing the column harness, and a phone call, they sent a new one. Other than that, I've been impressed with the harness, supplies included, and the manual. I'm now at this point of getting to ready to test the system.



Unfortunately, both of my chargers need to detect a minimum voltage to power up, which I don't believe can happen in this scenario. So I am thinking I look for a charger that doesn't have this built in feature or just hook it up to the battery and go for it.
Click to expand...
I had a charger that worked for this. I would have been fine direct to battery as I didn't have any issues except for the reversed pins from Painless.

Let us know how it turns out for you.
 
So I finally got time to pull the harness from the firewall today. I pulled the two wires and swapped their location. Put everything back together…
Problem still exists. 🤔
 
Bummer. Check all of the wire slots on both bulkheads with the CAD drawing. Something else may be incorrectly terminated by Painless.

Don't swap anything if it appears in the correct position.

Good luck!
 
May also want to confirm the markings match the colors on both ends. :shrug:
 
gpassida said:
Okay. I found my pics showing the problem I had. I am so glad I took tons of digital pics during the build process. They have saved my own butt a few times. Maybe they will help you out. Hopefully that is what you have going on.

Here is what I found and sent to Painless:
  • I have a lot of circuits working when the ignition key is OFF or completely out of the column:
    • Blower motor for heater fan
    • Turn signals
    • Parking brake light
    • Volt meter
    • Fuel gauge
  • I checked the fuse box and when the key is OFF, every fuse is hot except RADIO and COIL
  • The key cranks when it is in the start position
  • The key turns on the accessories like the radio when in the accessory position
  • The YELLOW # 933 "Switched Ign Power to Fuse block" wire at the ignition switch connector is always hot in all key positions
The problem:

These two wires were assembled by Painless incorrectly. Their position was reversed and essentially fed always on power to the circuits on the fuse block.

View attachment 116492

View attachment 116494

To get to them, you have to disconnect the fuse block assembly under the dashboard from the engine side block. Then separate the two pieces of the fuse block assembly. Like this:

View attachment 116495

These two wires are on the bottom side. I carefully removed the wires by depressing the pins inside the hole and reversed their position. Everything worked as it should after that.

After I got it fixed, this is what I sent to Painless:
  • I was able to extract the wires and connect them properly and after reassembly, everything works as it should! 😊
  • I have spent many hours troubleshooting this and triple checking that I did not wire anything incorrectly. Lots of those are on my back contorting my body to get up under the dashboard. Only to find it was assembled incorrectly at Painless. I am disappointed this was missed in quality control. Definitely not a Painless experience for me.
  • I very much appreciate your help and sending over the schematics so we could find the problem.
  • If I know anyone else purchasing a harness, I will tell them to check ALL wires against the schematic before starting the install.
  • Now, I can move forward with the rest of my project!
Other than this issue, the Painless harness is awesome. Should last many years and the installation manual is helpful even if you don't use their harness. I carry a PDF copy downloaded to my iPad in case I need to troubleshoot any electrical issue on a trail. But this was a BIG issue that sucked many hours. I have a lot of custom adaptations that mapped their wiring to the custom gauge set I run in my custom dashboard. I spent a lot of time laying that out to make sure it was correct. I checked and re-checked many times and could not find anything wrong with my wiring only to find it was a Painless quality control issue.

Let me know what you find in the end. Good luck! I know how frustrating this is!

George
Click to expand...
George,
In the below photo, the wire color, L to R, is orange, grey, red, brown. Was that the original position or after you swapped them?
IMG_6728.jpeg
 
I may have to check my painless kit I just got, unless they fixed this mistake. I already have the old harness out and have been installing the new harness. This is a little overwhelming, I can do house wiring, but automotive wiring has always given me trouble. However, as I am into the install of the new harness, I find it to be pretty easy. I have the whole rear harness installed (not a lot, lights and fuel sender, but hey, it was an accomplishment) I will be, on Sunday, working on the engine harness and then hopefully the cabin/dash harness.
So, just to clarify, the wires should be the opposite of the picture you shared? The brown wire should be next to the gray and the red should be where the brown is?
 
scrambler4315 said:
I may have to check my painless kit I just got, unless they fixed this mistake. I already have the old harness out and have been installing the new harness. This is a little overwhelming, I can do house wiring, but automotive wiring has always given me trouble. However, as I am into the install of the new harness, I find it to be pretty easy. I have the whole rear harness installed (not a lot, lights and fuel sender, but hey, it was an accomplishment) I will be, on Sunday, working on the engine harness and then hopefully the cabin/dash harness.
So, just to clarify, the wires should be the opposite of the picture you shared? The brown wire should be next to the gray and the red should be where the brown is?
Click to expand...
I had this issue and I swapped the wires in the harness as described and the issue remained. That was with the original gauges installed. Then, I installed the Speedhut CJ gauges and everything works as it should now! Who knows?? But I’m am extremely pleased with the Painless wiring and the Speedhut gauges!
 
scrambler4315 said:
I may have to check my painless kit I just got, unless they fixed this mistake. I already have the old harness out and have been installing the new harness. This is a little overwhelming, I can do house wiring, but automotive wiring has always given me trouble. However, as I am into the install of the new harness, I find it to be pretty easy. I have the whole rear harness installed (not a lot, lights and fuel sender, but hey, it was an accomplishment) I will be, on Sunday, working on the engine harness and then hopefully the cabin/dash harness.
So, just to clarify, the wires should be the opposite of the picture you shared? The brown wire should be next to the gray and the red should be where the brown is?
Click to expand...
Correct, the below pic shows them how mine came from Painless and they are in the wrong position. I swapped the two circled wires, and it resolved my issue.

1764794062339.png


This shows the proper order. "Bk" on the schematic is really gray on my harness. After I swapped the two wires it is now: Orange, Gray, Brown, Red.
1764794131569.png
 
Well, I have not finished the install as I am kind of taking my time to make sure I don't muck it up. However, I can say that they had assembled my harness kit correctly. I have gotten most of the "easy" stuff done, now I'm getting into the under hood connections that need terminated by me, and that scares me! I suck at automotive wiring, but hey, I've gotten this far, right?
This is also telling me what else is wrong with the 8. I discovered that there isn't a horn under the hood! No washer fluid reservoir, heater core bypassed, blower fan that doesn't work, missing defrost ducting, and none of the heater controls were even connected. At least all the slider for them work, so I don't have to fix that. My "To-do" list grows with everything I complete! But, at the end of the day, she's still a Scrambler and is getting the love she deserves. And, there is the fact that I am really enjoying the repairs and fixes. As odd as it sounds, this Jeep is good for my mental health!
 
scrambler4315 said:
Well, I have not finished the install as I am kind of taking my time to make sure I don't muck it up. However, I can say that they had assembled my harness kit correctly. I have gotten most of the "easy" stuff done, now I'm getting into the under hood connections that need terminated by me, and that scares me! I suck at automotive wiring, but hey, I've gotten this far, right?
This is also telling me what else is wrong with the 8. I discovered that there isn't a horn under the hood! No washer fluid reservoir, heater core bypassed, blower fan that doesn't work, missing defrost ducting, and none of the heater controls were even connected. At least all the slider for them work, so I don't have to fix that. My "To-do" list grows with everything I complete! But, at the end of the day, she's still a Scrambler and is getting the love she deserves. And, there is the fact that I am really enjoying the repairs and fixes. As odd as it sounds, this Jeep is good for my mental health!
Click to expand...
And its the best way to learn, so if something does go wrong you hopefully will have a good idea on where to look, have fun!
 
When I got my first Scrambler, about 2015, I knew very little about them mechanically. With the help of the vast knowledge on this forum, I have completely re-wired 2 Scramblers with the Painless wiring harnesses, replaced steering column, power steering gearbox, pump, installed Speedhut gauges, and countless other items. Now I feel pretty confident I can tackle almost any issue that arises with the Jeep. Without this awesome forum, I would be lost!
 
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