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Transmission Opinion

T

twmattox

Legacy Registered User
City
Arcadia
State
IN
I have posted on here a few times regarding my ailing T-5. I have posted a request on a few other forums for sources for T-5s, and I have a few options (and need advice)...

Option 1:
I can get my T-5 rebuilt at a local shop for around $750. This includes complete dissassembly of my unit, replacement of all bearings, seals, and out of spec parts, reassembly, painting of the unit, and a 12 month warranty. He has offered to do the same for the Dana 300 for another $250.

Option 2:
I can get a used T-5 for around $500...

Option 3:
I can get a used AX-15 (complete with hydraullic set-up) for around $300. Add the clock ring adapter kit for $120, and then I would just need to adjsut the driveshaft lengths (anyone know what this should run)...

Option 4:
I can get a complete rebuilt NV3550 for around $750. I would need the clock ring adapter for $120, driveshafts adjusted, and need to figure out the whole clutch linkage thing...

I have read a lot of posts indicating that the T-5 is weak, the AX-15 next in line, and the NV3550 the strongest of the three. However, I have also read from a lot of sources that the NV3550 has had a lot of problems recently...

Oh, before any of you go on the 4-speed kick, I need overdrive! I drive 25,000+ miles a year. Overdrive gives me the extra MPG (currently I get 22+) and with gas costs, can't justify the expense of a 4-speed...

Any input would be apprecieated.
 
First off- before anyone starts bashing- I like the T-5. I do recreational camping/wheeling, and a lot of time driving around town with the top off. For those purposes, a T-5 is fine. You need to decide what is the main purpose of your Jeep, and from there decide on your best transmission option. My thought:
- Forget the AX-15, not any stronger than the T-5(IMO) and if you needed something stronger, you should go for the NV.
- $750 to rebuild a T-5 sounds really high. At $750 I would assume the shop is removing and reinstalling as well, if not, shop around.
- If you want to go through the hassle of swapping a different tranmission, you might as well go for the NV. To go through the hassle for anything less would be a waste of time.
-----
Just my thought. You can probably rebuild the T-5 yourself- in the $300 range. Depending on what it needs. The main shaft is the biggest expense.
Best of luck.
Kyle
 
Of those three, I would go with the NV3550 and swap to a hydraulic clutch.
 
Here we go again!!:D

1. How much can you spend?

2. Do you use the truck off-road? (25,000 a year on road doesn't seem to leave much time for off-road)

Money not a problem? Do an NV4500. No question. If it is, just put the $500 unit in and rive it till it drops.

My best suggestion is to buy a vehicle you can use up on the highway instead of the Scrambler.

Red
 
Well, money is a very big issue. I was planning on keeping the noisy T-5, but it is leaking over a quart of fluid every day...apparently, not going to live long.

I was mostly worried about doing the repair myself (well, not myself)...I had indicated on another post that my neighbor is a Ford mechanic who may be able to do the rebuild. Well, he doesn't have any of the presses he indicated he would need. I know nothing about rebuilding transmissions...

I have pretty much ruled the NV3550 out. Although this was my innitial desire, I have read about a lot of people having trouble with them. More so than the AX-15. That, and I don't understand that specific hydraullic clutch. I know the AX-15 is an internal throwout assembly...

I definately don't have the cash, desire, or need for the NV4500!!!

So, back to what I have read: The T-5 is a light duty tranny, the AX-15 a medium duty tranny. So, I am down to these options:

1) Rebuild my T-5 (do I need a bearing puller)?

2) Buy a rebuilt T-5

3) Buy a used T-5

4) Upgrade to AX-15

Those are my options, what advice can you all give...
 
Heard the same about the NV3550.

I've run the AX-15 in my Cherokee for about 180K with absolutely no problems. What I don't like about it is the shift effort is high and the gating is sometimes difficult when in a situation that needs intuitive gear selection. No durability issues for me.

I have a T-5 in my '83 that has served well, but has never been worked hard. The shift behavior is the exact opposite of the AX-15..... Smooth, unconfused, but a BIG pattern to the point of feeling a bit sloppy. Without the challenge of off-road use it probably is fine.

Paul
 
To add another $$$ into the swap, the only driveshaft company I could find indicated it would cost:

$80 to shorten my rear drive shaft
$180 to lengthen my front driveshaft

They further indicated that I may not want to do this. The front driveshaft is long enough and making it longer would just increase the ability for it to bend/distort...
 
Re: Rebuilding the T-5: I paid close to $500 to rebuild my T-5 myself, but the bulk of that cost was the input and main shafts (about $300 worth). I did have to have a bearing puller, and I made some extended arms for it out of 1x.125 bar stock to reach from the end of the shaft to the bearing. I had rebuilt the trans from my '84 Nissan before, but the two are as different as night from day, in effect making the T-5 rebuild brand new to me. If I can figure it out, ANYONE can. :D
Re: Replacement T-5: I'm sure that with a little more searching you should be able to find a junkyard T-5 for less than you posted, but I don't know what prices are like in your area. I wouldn't spend more than $150 on one, myself. You may need to rebuild the replacement anyway- think, why is this thing in a junkyard to begin with? If the price you quoted was for a rebuilt T-5, that's not so bad.
Re: Replacement other trans: I'd go with the AX15, provided the output shaft diameter/spline count is comparable and will fit the D300. Also, unless you're planning to wheel seriously, you really don't NEED to clock the t-case.
As regards the driveshaft change, if you're not driving the Scrambler offroad (at least not hard), how is a longer front driveshaft any different from a longer rear driveshaft? If you're only using it onroad anyway, why not just pull the front shaft until you can afford a new, beefier one rather than a lengthened old one?

The AX-15, IMO, is a grand trans. I have one in my '95 XJ with about 170k on it, never rebuilt. I've had it mildly offroad, and put lots of highway miles on it. I agree with Mtruck, the shifting is... unusual. Sometimes it's fussy about gears, and occasionally you get gear clash if you didn't poke the clutch just right, but I don't consider that a detriment, just something to be aware of. Oh, BTW, mine is external slave, so not all AX's have that nasty internal slave cylinder like the AX-5s and Peugeot BA-10s had.
 
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Thanks for the input. I may see if the neighbor would rebuild it. I called Medatronics:

http://www.5speeds.com/

Talk about a shop that knows their T-5s...the guy was very very knowledgable!. They sell rebuild kits and that is the direction I would rather go. He is guessing (based on my description) that it will be around $400-$500 for the kit (including new input output and gearsets). He only uses quality parts and gave me the name of a few parts suppliers who use sub-standard foreign made parts. Ends up the guy who I was thinking about rebuilding my T-5 gets his parts from both of those vendors...Now just depends on the nieghbor...

From what I have read, the T-5 is rated to 265 ftlbs torque. The AX-15 is rated to 285 ftlbs. The NV3550 is rated (conservitavely) at 300 ftlbs. So, I just can't justify the expense of upgrading to the AX-15 if it is only rated to 20ftlbs higher...

From talking to the guy at Medatronics, he indicated the largest problems (that gave T-5s a bad rap) dealt with a recalled third gear (went from 29 spline to 27 spline). That upgrade is supposed to help beef the thing up a good deal. Other problems deal with incorrect or improper fluid levels. These non-world class transmissions operate without needle bearings (instead having deep oil grooves). As such, they should only run gear oil. Further, the factory called for a funky "fish oil" AMC manual transmission fluid (Part Number 8983 000 000). This fluid was discontinued by AMC and currently, Chrysler is recommending the use of GL3 gear oil. From my limited understanding, GL3 is very different from GL4 or GL5. I emailed Valvoline regarding this (as I haven't seen GL3 or GL4 in a very long time). They indicated that the issue is with the type of sulfate used in the lube. Apparently activated sulfate (used in some GL5 lubes) can eat brass synchros. Valvoline indicated:
"The Valvoline High Performance Gear Oil 80-w90 can be used for both GL4 and GL5. The real concern is the type of sulfate used in the gear oil. You can
not use an active sulfate for GL-4 applications. Valvoline uses an inactive
sulfate that will not harm any yellow metal such as bronze. This allows our
products to be used in manual transmissions that have bronze synchronizers."
 
Interesting to note that about the gear oil... the FSM for 1982 Jeeps called for Dexron III ATF to be used in the T-4 and T-5....? Also, neither of those things explains why my trans blew out twice- once for a bad synchro dog that kicked out and locked me in 3rd gear (which never sheared its 27 splines), and once chewing up the needle bearings between the input and main shafts, despite meticulous pains taken to insure the proper thrust depth. Oh well.
 
There was a recall regarding that...

I believe that there was a TSB for it too. I have a Factory Service Manual from 1984-1986 that indicates AMC manual transmission fluid (Part Number 8983 000 000) for both the T4, T5, and Dana 300. From what I have heard from Chrysler, this equates to GL3...

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/results.cfm

Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
JEEP / CHEROKEE 1982
JEEP / CJ5 1982
JEEP / CJ7 1982
JEEP / J10 1982
JEEP / J20 1982
JEEP / WAGONEER 1982
Type: ANY
Recall Number: 82V125000
Summary:
ORIGINAL PRODUCTION TRANSMISSION LUBRICANT USED IN THE INVOLVED VEHICLES MAY NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE LUBRICATION TO PROTECT THE TRANSMISSION"S FIRST GEAR.
Consequence:
There is no summary currently available
Remedy:
THE DEALER WILL REPLACE THE ORIGINAL PRODUCTION LUBRICANT AT NO CHARGE TO THE OWNER.
Notes:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: MULTI-PURPOSE PASSENGER VEHICLES AND TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITHT4 AND T5 MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS.SYSTEM: POWER TRAIN; MANUAL TRANSMISSION, LUBRICANT.CONSEQUENCES OF DEFECT: IN EXTREME CASES THE TRANSMISSION COULD FAIL TO OPERATEDUE TO LACK OF LUBRICATION. THIS FAILURE COULD OCCUR WITHOUT PRIOR WARNING ANDMAY CAUSE A VEHICLE ACCIDENT.NOTE: PRIOR TO SERVICING, OWNER IS ADVISED TO AVOID DRIVING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS.ON VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 5-SPEED TRANSMISSION, AVOID USING THE FIFTH GEAR.
 
n9viw said:
Interesting to note that about the gear oil... the FSM for 1982 Jeeps called for Dexron III ATF to be used in the T-4 and T-5....? Also, neither of those things explains why my trans blew out twice- once for a bad synchro dog that kicked out and locked me in 3rd gear (which never sheared its 27 splines), and once chewing up the needle bearings between the input and main shafts, despite meticulous pains taken to insure the proper thrust depth. Oh well.
Click to expand...
My FSM supplement from '82 for '83 trans and transfer calls for 90 wt in both not the monkey waste.I had some seal work done on my T5 and had Torco MTF installed cause a jeeper friend and mechanic has 175K miles on his original T5 w/o any o/h using torco.
 
Vote for rebuilding the T-5. It's a very good trans considering overdrive 5th gear. And for recreational driving and tires no larger than 30" it'll serve you well. I'm doing the exact same thing but the cost of rebuild here from a reputable shop is about 650. Warranted.
Good luck,
Drew
 
I've had a T-5(first o/h 100K miles)(2nd o/h 198K miles) with 31" tires on my 8, used it off road and as a commuter w/o problems and a friend with a CJ8 ,4.2L,T-5,4" springs,Summers Flanged Axels in AMC 20 with Detroit Locker ran Enkie wheels with BFG MT 33x12.5x15 tires w/o problems.A well known 4x4 shop owner asked me what percentage of hwy & offroad miles I drove ,I told him 95% / less than 5% he said stay with the T5 and forget putting in a 4 speed like the T18 or 19,I ended up selling him the Ford T 18 I'd brought with me for installation.
 
I was considering putting a T 5 back in my 7. That's what came in it. I have a T 4 now but was considering the swap for better gas mileage. I found a couple of used ones in the $150 range. Don't know what condition they were in but they were said to have been performing fine when pulled.

But I haven't gotten around to getting one. Do a search on other Jeep forums and you might find a good one for cheap since most folks want something stronger when they need replacing
 
Well, I found a used T-5 for $150. Drove to pick it up and realized after I got there it was a T-4. Since I am hurting for transportation and don't have the $$$ right now to have mine rebuilt, I negotiated with the owner and walked away with a functional T-4 for under $100.

Guess I will pull my T-5 and rebuild it when I get $$$...
 
That could give you the time to learn how to rebuild a transmission yourself. You did well on the T-4!
Paul
 
Not as well as I would have hoped. First gear had a small chunk missing and the thing leaked. I replaced the output shaft seal, and pulled the front bearing retainer to replace the front seal. When I put it all back together, it didn't move (input shaft wouldn't turn). It acts like it is stuck between gears and not shifting. I have taken the top cover off and quite frankly not sure what I am looking at. Does anyone know of a website that has decent pictures with arrows pointing at parts indicating...this is a synchro, this is a gear, this is a.......

Basically, transmissions for dummies...
 
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