1984 CJ-8 Project...here we go

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

OK, so I changed the transmission oil, transfer case oil, and engine oil (I will do the axles later this week). All looked old but normal except for the transmission oil. I have the old T5 and when I pulled the plug, what looked like brown water came out. Smelled like ATF/oil a bit, but consistency of water. Also, the engine oil smelled like gas a bit. I'm running a Weber 32/36 carb, and I've heard those tend to run rich. Rebuild kit is on the way.

When I fired the engine up, the tranny made a whooshing noise that it hadn't made before. I put 6 qts of 10w-30 in the engine, 2.6 qts of AFT+4 in the Transmission, and 2 qts of 80W-90 gear oil in the transfer case. Haven't tried driving it yet, the noise occurred with engine running and in neutral. Sounded like it was coming from the flywheel or front of tranny. Maybe input shaft bearing? The Tranny was easier to shift into gear with the clutch depressed (engine off). It was a bit harder before the oil change. I suppose I need to try shifting with the engine running to listen for more clues.....that will be later today.....I ran out of time yesterday.

I've read up a bit on T5s and I'm learning that the T5 is a less than desirable tranny. What a shame, I definitely prefer the 5 speed over 4, but would put reliability over anything else. I've read up on everything from a AX15 swap (may be a bit too complicated) to a T5 with world class upgrades and a G-Force case, but I hate to put money into a tranny that wont last. I plan to use the Scrambler for family cruising and an occasional light off road fishing trip, but no rock crawling or heavy torque use. I'm running the stock 258 (all original except for carb) with standard gears and 31" BFG MTs.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. Should I just stick with the T5 (if I am able to) until I need a rebuild? I will take it for a drive soon to see how everything operates and listen to the tranny. I have a feeling I wont' get too far with that noise.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sdsupilot]

Running a stock 258 and 31" tires would keep the T5 happier for longer. As you already know they have a rather poor reputation. I didn't see what axle ratio you are running, but with proper gearing you can get similar cruise RPM with either a 4 or 5 speed. A 5 speed does it with less compromises on crawl ratio though.

If swapping and wanting a manual I would look at the AX15 for a 5 speed, or a 4 speed sm465 for brute strength. The T176 would be the easiest of the bunch though as it was a factory option with your existing engine and transfer case.

That said, I would try running it for a while then decide what you want to do.

 

[Jeepn-n-TX]

Looks like a really good base to start with. Only thing I'd say after reading through your post so far is, if you're planning on adding two rear seats, just plan for/ make sure you have appropriate anchor points for the seats and seat belts.

I have a T5 in mine as well. While it doesn't have the best reputation, to me, it's all about how you plan to use it. For me, it'll just be a "cruise-around-town/ take my honey out on a date night" driver. So, even if I have to rebuild the T5, a rebuild kit is still waaaaay cheaper than a total transmission swap. Just my .

Glad to see another TX CJ posting here. .... I'm up in the northeast, out in Tyler.

 

[CJ7Pilot]

I put an SM465 in mine. It's tough as nails, but it's a truck transmission... and it drives like one. I really wish I'd gone with an AX15.

I put an AX15 in a CJ7 I had years ago, and I really liked the result. It wasn't too hard to swap in, but I was also making a lot of other changes at the time. The biggest thing was probably adding a hydraulic clutch to replace the mechanical clutch linkage.

 

[wm69]

I really like the T176. Have them in two of our Jeeps, and have a couple on the shelf for when (not if, but when) the T5 in the other Jeep goes bang.

@spankrjs probably has more experience than anybody with the T5. I run regular gear oil in my T5 and so far it's held up ok, 3.31's and 31" tires. Gearing is important to the T5 holding up. If you have 2.73's and 31's, I doubt it will live long.

 

[Emile]

Thanks! Yeah, I don't expect to have full sized seats in the back, most of our travels will be on city roads, slow cruising, but I'd like a basic upgrade like having the headrests that are adjustable in case of a rear end collision.

I bought a Jeep Wrangler YJ 91-95 Power Brake Booster Master Cylinder on Ebay, hope that will work okay.

Yes, I plan to weld up a cage for the back. The hardest things to find were weldable 3" tube clamps for the Scrambler's 3" rollbar. I will put a rollcage hoop in the rear and weld some 1.75" roll cage tubing together to form 4 front to rear support braces.

Where did you end up finding the tube clamps?

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

Update..
So I got it running and it starts right up, but once the choke closes and the butterfly valve starts to open, then engine wants to die. when I close the butterfly valve to 1/8 open, it runs smoothly. So I must have a lean fuel scenario.

I have the weber 32/36 on it, and decided against a repro Chinese Carter knockoff. I checked for air leaks and a blocked fuel vent, no joy there. I bought a weber rebuild kit and rebuilt the carb, but no change. Strange thing is, when I changed the spark plugs, they seemed to show that it was running rich, not lean. Stumped. The fuel mixture needle is more open than the standard benchmark recommended settings, so I think that's okay.

This Weber looks like it's been rebuilt a few times, so I wonder if it's worn out. When I was rebuilding it, It appeared that one of the the lower round throttle butterfly valves was not closing all the way, and that's probably what it is....I think I need to replace the shaft and the round throttle body discs. I also noticed there was some scoring around the edges of the walls of the throttle body portion of the carb.

Time to remove and recheck!

Wish me luck! Any advice is appreciated!

 

[CJ7Pilot]

Where did you end up finding the tube clamps?

These Rock-Hard 4x4 clamps are great for attaching things to our roll bars: https://www.rockhard4x4.com/product_p/rh-1300.htm

They seem expensive, but are actually very reasonable compared to other products on the market.

You can also search for 3" split collars at your local or online industrial power transmission supply.

 

[CJ7Pilot]

Where did you end up finding the tube clamps?

Here's an example from McMaster-Carr at almost the same price, but not nearly as useful : https://www.mcmaster.com/60665K58/

@bigwalton What happened to the edit button? I had intended to add this comment to my previous post.

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

Where did you end up finding the tube clamps?

I actually bought them from CarID..the listing said they were for Scramblers but they ended up being 2.5". I am returning them. Thanks for CJ7Pilot for posting the Rock Hard ones...I'll be buying those now!

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

I have one of those seats in my 8. It works pretty well overall. Only concern is the height of the seat back as the passengers get taller. The back is rather short. Since my passengers are in car seats it isn't much of a concern yet.

Hey, thanks for the feedback. Can you give me an idea about how tall the seatbacks are with the headrests fully extended? I have one teenager and 3 more fast growing kids. Did you think of putting the seats on risers as well so that you are not sitting so close to the ground? Also, did you do two rows of rear seats? That's what I plan on doing, although the tumbling portion of the seat may not work too well with both in there.
Thanks again.

 

[sdsupilot]

Here is a pic.



I figure a measurement would be helpful. I’m rather large and my kiddos are pretty small. I went for a test sit and the seat being low isn’t uncomfortable. My knees are higher than usual and the top of the headrest is even with the top of my shoulders.

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

Here is a pic.

View attachment 93599

I figure a measurement would be helpful. I’m rather large and my kiddos are pretty small. I went for a test sit and the seat being low isn’t uncomfortable. My knees are higher than usual and the top of the headrest is even with the top of my shoulders.

Wow that's great info...thanks for the pic, makes it super clear. I think it will suit us just fine, thanks!!!

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

Ok, another update. Swapped out the 32/36 Weber for a new one and now it idles and revs perfectly. Still fine tuning it. Engine compartment is mostly done except for replacing the leaky power steering lines and replacing some wiring. I'll probably do another compresion check soon, now that I can let it warm up to operating temp. I may also get around to pulling and painting the fenders and grill at some point.
Got to drive it around the driveway and seems to pull and steer just fine.

New issues / notes:
1. After replacing the transmission oil, I'm still getting some serious chattering noise from the flywheel when sitting at idle. It gets louder when releasing the clutch and moving in gear, especially in reverse. It sometimes disappears when I depress the clutch or put pressure against the shifter. I wonder if the oil from the input drive shaft seal is leaking onto the clutch? I drained the oil but i don't know how much came out, so I don't know if it was above or below the level of the seal, if that matters... I refilled it to the level stated in the Jeep charts. It didn't make the noise when I was backing it off the trailer when I first got it home, only after I changed the fluids. Hmmmm.
2. Going to try to take the Dana 300 transfer case / T5 transmission out this week so I could check the status of the gears and see if I need a rebuild. I'll also check the clutch and flywheel to see where the noise is coming from. I found another D300/T176 but not sure if I should do the tranny swap right now, since I just want to get it running / driving and I'm sure I've got other expenses to focus on. $900 is not bad for the combo but I will still need the new driveshafts and a few other things if I decide to do the swap. I am wondering if I should just run with the T5 'til it breaks-hopefully its still in good shape, I have no idea. I don't want to test drive it on the road until I get the brakes set up perfectly and fix the chattering.
3, Going to install the 95 YJ brake booster next week. I've been reading about having to lengthen the brake pedal linkage rod so that it matches the level of the CJ clutch pedal and makes sure the pivot/geometry is good. That's going to be fun.

That's it for now, more to come soon.
Thanks again!

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

Running a stock 258 and 31" tires would keep the T5 happier for longer. As you already know they have a rather poor reputation. I didn't see what axle ratio you are running, but with proper gearing you can get similar cruise RPM with either a 4 or 5 speed. A 5 speed does it with less compromises on crawl ratio though.

If swapping and wanting a manual I would look at the AX15 for a 5 speed, or a 4 speed sm465 for brute strength. The T176 would be the easiest of the bunch though as it was a factory option with your existing engine and transfer case.

That said, I would try running it for a while then decide what you want to do.

Thanks for the info. I think the T5 would be okay, but given that I have crazy noises coming from the tranny already, I think I'm ready for a change. The jeep isn't roadworthy yet, I just gathered this from the quick spins I've taken around the block.

The question now is, should I go for the AX15 or the T176. AX15 seems to make more sense but I know there will be more to do. I already have another project and I hate to add to this one. I like that I can do some low speed crawling with it if I really wanted to, but I can also comfortably cruise at 70 to my off road destination. Best of both worlds. Also, I have a brand new LQ4 6.0 engine that I had saved for another project, but I can also use on the CJ-8. The AX15 should be able to handle 300 ft lbs of torque if I ever do the LS swap.

It's easy to get carried away with the what-ifs and sometimes I think I'd be better off fixing what I have. I just don't want to rebuild a POS and have it break again.

Anyway, thanks again, lots to think on..

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

Looks like a really good base to start with. Only thing I'd say after reading through your post so far is, if you're planning on adding two rear seats, just plan for/ make sure you have appropriate anchor points for the seats and seat belts.

I have a T5 in mine as well. While it doesn't have the best reputation, to me, it's all about how you plan to use it. For me, it'll just be a "cruise-around-town/ take my honey out on a date night" driver. So, even if I have to rebuild the T5, a rebuild kit is still waaaaay cheaper than a total transmission swap. Just my .

Glad to see another TX CJ posting here. .... I'm up in the northeast, out in Tyler.

Thanks, excellent points. I'm also putting in a family rollcage in the rear and I'll need anchor points for those too.

Yeah, like you, I'll probably be doing mostly street and light offroad cruising, but it would nice to be able to cruise the hill country trails with no worries.

Good to hear from another Texan. Tyler isn't too far! that's where I bought my old FJ40 years ago. I sold it 5 years ago and now they are crazy expensive. I think I'll be more happy with the CJ8 because of the space tho.

Thanks for reaching out!

 

[Chamba]

I'm really happy with my ax15 behind a 300 horse 351w. It's a very nice box.

Like you, I was an FJ40 guy for years, and the H55F is a very similar box to the ax15 as far as feel, gearing and smoothness. I like the H55F better for its overall strength, but Novak sells the heavy duty ax15 which is what I got. It should handle up to 350 horse without complaint. The adapter Novak sells is really easy to hang the dana 300 off of and you can clock it up out of the way, unlike an LC split case.

Welcome to the 8. You'll never miss your 40 now: so much easier to improve and the room is great. Like you, I've got the three rows. Try that in a 40....

 

[1984CJ-EIGHT]

I'm really happy with my ax15 behind a 300 horse 351w. It's a very nice box.

Like you, I was an FJ40 guy for years, and the H55F is a very similar box to the ax15 as far as feel, gearing and smoothness. I like the H55F better for its overall strength, but Novak sells the heavy duty ax15 which is what I got. It should handle up to 350 horse without complaint. The adapter Novak sells is really easy to hang the dana 300 off of and you can clock it up out of the way, unlike an LC split case.

Welcome to the 8. You'll never miss your 40 now: so much easier to improve and the room is great. Like you, I've got the three rows. Try that in a 40....

Thanks, good to know. I saw 94-99 Wrangler external slave clutch design AX15s from DeadJeeps (100% positive reviews --not DeadJeepParts) in running condition on Ebay for around 800-900 and was wondering if I should go that route.

Yeah, we had 3 kids when I had the Fj40, and I put a UTV seat in the back, that had three 5 point harnesses. Now we have 4 kids and they are all bigger too....the CJ8 will fit us perfectly.

I noticed you are in Vero Beach. I used to live in Jax Beach and fly out of Mayport NS. I'd fly by VB occasionally on the way to West Palm Beach. I miss it over there.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Chamba]

I put a YJ pedal tree in mine for the hydraulic clutch. It works well. I got the tree from that Jeep wreckers in Pennsylvania on ebay.

I put the rock hard family cage in mine. Given I'm in Florida now and no longer in Santa Fe (sadly), the rock hard cage is adequate. If I were still wheeling in n the San Juans, etc I'd do a proper cage.

I'm based in Orlando, so Vero is a good home base. It's only 2 hours to work and is a good family place. I really miss the West though.

 

[Chamba]

I finally found the picture of my seats and Rock Hard cage right after I installed them. My wife set up my phone to upload everything to the clouds.... now I can't find anything. Makes me wish I'd done a build thread here.