Dana 60 vs 60S

[ag4ever]

Does anybody know the differences between a “Rear Super 60” as used by GM in their 1 ton vans in the mid 2000’s vs a standard Rear 60 as used in most vehicles prior to 2000?

I have found a BOM 2001889-1 for a decent price, but will it accept normal center section parts? I am planning to replace everything on the ends of the axle, so that does not matter. I know it is a 4.10 down carrier version.

 

[sdsupilot]

The sites I just searched for mine appear to indicate that it takes standard parts and has the "low" carrier. Only quirk I saw is that it has 33 spline axles. Based on that you will likely want/need to replace the carrier to run more standard axle shafts.

When you say replace everything on the ends, what do you mean?

I just picked up a FF dana 60 from an E350. I will tell you that cutting the ends off and replacing with "big ford" and going SF is not a popular opinion with any of the axle manufacturers I have talked with.

 

[ag4ever]

My plans are to cut the ends and run solid axle industry FF 5x5.5 hubs.

 

[ag4ever]

It appears the pre ‘90 axles are different than post. Pre ‘90 uses Spicer part number 10043633 to rebuild the differential, and post ‘90 uses 2017590. This includes the Ford E350 axle from ‘93 - ‘94. Also includes the chevy “G” vans from ‘90 - ‘92. Same year split for the master rebuild kit. Pre ‘90 - 10043634, post ‘90 - 2017592. ****EDIT**** looking at the spicer data, there appears to be many axles built after ‘90 that use the 1004363(3 or 4) rebuild kits. So there is some kind of difference in those variants. I wonder if it is full float vs semi float?

The 33 spline carrier really does make it an odd duck, but I was thinking of running an OX or ARB locker. Or another type of limited slip, so I would be replacing the carrier anyways. The axle shafts would need replacement due to a custom length setup, so no real loss there.

But, then would I be better off buying a new bare axle to start from??

 

[sdsupilot]

But, then would I be better off buying a new bare axle to start from??

That is the question I go back and forth on. I think it depends on overall cost and what your goals are. That said, Moser has a Dana 60 housing with axles for $1325. It doesn’t take much time to spend that with housing ends, axles and having a shop weld/shorten.

I am planning on 60-61” WMS using explorer disc brakes. I think for most CJs this should be pretty good. Even though it is SF, the pro rock 60s for TJs are built just like this.

 

[ag4ever]

Moser also has a complete built to order axle that when spec’d out with an Eaton Detroit Truetrac, 4.30 gears, no bracket, no brakes for $3300.

East Coast Gear has one for just under $4k. This has brakes and spring perches.

Both are semi-float.

To build one, I’m looking at the core cost around $500 + Solid FF parts around $1300 + gears $400 + bearings $150 + carrier/traction device $650 + fixture bar/puck $750. That puts materials at $3750 without brakes. Add $400 for ‘76 Eldorado disk brakes, and you are over the ECGS turnkey setup. But, you have full float that can use warn hubs or drive pucks. (Also assumes you are doing all labor yourself.)

Thinking the ECGS might be the way to go.

 

[barrys]

$500 for a core...ouch. Around me you can go to a pull it yard and find a 60 for under $100. Often see them online for $100-$200.
I lucked out and found a rock Jock 60 with 4.56, Detroit and discs for $1100(maybe $1200?) on craigslist. YJ spec'ed but axles are drilled for 5.5 and extra width should match my new Dyntrac 60 front I got 10 years ago. I traded a used Currie 44 front for(paid $1100 for it 20 years ago). Bummer not having time or a garage to work in that's why they are not under my Jeep?.

 

[ag4ever]

Unfortunately, most yards around Houston are picked over good, and the only places that have 60’s are full service. Most of those yards want well over $1k for an axle.

The one I found is in an ‘07 Chevy Van. Axle looks really good.



But, I think I have myself talked into ECGS.

 

[sdsupilot]

It doesn't take much time to get up to the price of new. Plus you get to save some of your life and back...

I lucked out and found my D60 FF rear for $50 on marketplace. But, costs add up quickly. I will be around 1100 for an OX, 120 for ford big bearing ends, $350 for a shop to shorten and weld the ends, $300 for gears and bearings, 500 for 35 spline axles or 600 for 40. I will likely spend another 200 on misc including a u pull it run for explorer disc brake hardware.

That puts me in the 2700 range. Half of that cost is fixed whether you go new or used.

 

[Jeeper_4_Life]

If your going to convert the Dana 60 to SF why go to the trouble to run a Dana 60? Trussed Ford 9 would serve same purpose other than if you want 35 spline you are replacing most everything anyway. Solid makes FF Dana 60 5x5.5 hubs for $440 a pair not sure if they work in the rear or not. 14bolt can be shaved, and solid makes 5x5.5 hubs for 400 a pair that go on factory rear spindle. Main hang up is functioning ebrake on 1 ton. Drum style ebrakes seem to work better, but figuring out how to rig that up is the hard part.

I ran Warn FF on my M20 with Cadillac calipers. They didn't work even when adjusted correctly.

Currie makes FF ends that will accept JK brake backing plate ebrake assembly, but requires their ff hubs and unit bearings. They are expensive.
Spicer ultimate 60's appear to use JK brake backing plate ebrake assembly too, so might be able to mix match parts that way to get it to work.

 

[sdsupilot]

I stumbled upon a D60 during the slippery slope of an upgrade. Started wanting a FSJ AMC 20 or Rodeo 44, then up to a Ford 8.8. The 8.8 is C-clip unless you cut the ends off and replace. You are then still stuck with 1.3" 31 splines. Then I looked at a 9", but everyone I talked (Currie, Dutchman, Moser) to said to buy a new housing as most used ones are bent to some degree. Stock 9" housings are fairly weak.

I then stumbled upon a 99 E350 FF 68" WMS Dana 60 with 3.5" tubes. I have a J10 44 cut down to 61" WMS, so full width isn't an option. I could just cut the tubes and keep it FF and go with the 8 lug setup. However, the brakes off the van are huge in comparison and I am concerned about getting huge rear brakes to properly function with the much smaller Jeep/GM 44 front brakes. Plus the big ford ends can use the explorer disc brake with a integrated drum emergency brakes.

I realize that FF is stronger. At the same time, tons of people wheel hard with 31 spline SF 1.3" axles without trouble. Since I am replacing my carrier anyways, I plan on getting either 1.5" 35 spline, or 1.7" 40 spline axles. Currie and Dynatrac use 35 spline axles in their pro rock/rock jock 60s for TJs and JKs which weigh substantially more than a CJ.

 

[93_Fummins]

You forgot the bit about being stuck on OX lockers too, which knocks out the 9" also.

 

[ag4ever]

I ran Warn FF on my M20 with Cadillac calipers. They didn't work even when adjusted correctly.

What issues did you have with the Caddy brakes? I was thinking of running that setup. Only down side I saw was you really need to set them up and bleed them correctly, but I have no 1st hand experience.

 

[HighSierra CJ]

What issues did you have with the Caddy brakes? I was thinking of running that setup. Only down side I saw was you really need to set them up and bleed them correctly, but I have no 1st hand experience.

I am running Cady brakes on my rear Dana 44. I went through hell figuring out how to bleed them. You have to loosen the bleeder screw, hold the calipers in your hands and put them through a figure 8 motion “While someone presses the break pedal” until you get a burp. I repeated this process several times until no more air came through the bleeder screw. I have this all written down in my journal, I’ll re-read it tomorrow and offer more detail if needed.

 

[ag4ever]

Here is one site I’ve read through lug nut 4x4

I forgot where I downloaded these instructions, but they are a how to setup the Eldorado brakes.

 

[Jeeper_4_Life]

What issues did you have with the Caddy brakes? I was thinking of running that setup. Only down side I saw was you really need to set them up and bleed them correctly, but I have no 1st hand experience.

The warn disk brake brackets I used put the bleeder at an angle instead of straight vertical. To bleed I had to pull caliper off and hold it so bleeder was vertical. Then either set it back over disk and have someone pump the pedal to bleed, or gravity bleed them. I typically had to gravity bleed. This was after ratcheting them out so they were in contact with the ebrake adjuster. I tried two different new sets of calipers and still had same results. Could have just been the way I applied them from the warn kit.

You have to use the ebrake also to keep pads adjusted out. I couldn't ever get enough leverage out of the stock ebrake system on the Scrambler to hold the jeep in place. It would hold on flat ground, and even then I didn't trust it as it would roll slowly with any slight angle. On top of that the rear brakes never seemed to work well. It would take a pump to get pedal on the street. While offroading I would typically lose all pedal going down a hill or in flexy situations and have to pump about 3 times to get it back (flex lines were all braided). I think flex in wheel bearings/spindles whatever would push piston back in, because once I had pedal again it would stay. So I was constantly pumping brakes to make sure they were there. I had swapped to corvette disk disk master. I ended up adding residual valves to rear line and it helped. I just never had good luck with it. Maybe I just had a bad setup, because lot of places sell caddy caliper for disk swaps w/ebrake. Mine were all manual now power so that could be some of it too.

I finally decided to swap axles and went Gm44 ford knuckles with thunderbird calipers and 9" w/explorer brakes, same master and residual valve, I don't lose pedal anymore, I can bleed the brakes without removing anything, and the ebrake will hold better, but I still don't fully trust it either as it will creep some.

Drum ebrake is probably the best. I would look into how to apply JK backing plate. Downtofab shows dana UD60 using same backing plate for FF use? If you need mechanical ebrake to pass inspection then you use one or the other or stay drums. I have thought as far as mounting another bracket and mechanical wilwood caliper to use as ebrake or using a ball valve as a line lock (have to plumb into cab which is not super great).

 

[ag4ever]

I have thought about a driveline e brake, but some don’t like it because if your tires can spin opposite directions (wet grass or similar) you don’t have any brakes. But that would be the same as a trans in park and 99% of the general public just puts their vehicle in park and never sets the e brake.

 

[CJ7Pilot]

Good point about putting the transmission in "park."

 

[sdsupilot]

If your going to convert the Dana 60 to SF why go to the trouble to run a Dana 60?

While stubborn I can be swayed. I did some thinking of why I was stuck on 5 on 5.5. I have my factory wheels that I am unattached to and a set of 16s that I don't like. So, the new plan is to narrow the 60 and keep it FF and use the original van disc brakes, with integral drum E brake and get new wheels. I thought that the vans dual piston calipers would cause a large braking imbalance. After measuring the piston diameter I think an adjustable proportioning valve should solve the problem. The surface area of the dual piston caliper is 2/3 the size of the single piston of the GM/Jeep single.

So I ordered a pair of GM 3/4 ton caliper supports (front backing plates) and I will now be converting the front to the larger K20 rotor and eight lug hubs.