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Looking for direction for my build - losing focus and motivation . . .

S

sevensandeights

sevensandeights
City
Mckean
State
PA
I have posted a few threads over the past 3 years regarding my CJ8 project. I have two 8's and a mint OEM frame that I am trying to build into one Scrambler. I did a budget restoration to my original CJ8 about 12 years ago but then used it as a daily driver through salted roads in snowy northwestern PA. The body and frame are now totally wasted but the drivetrain is good. So, I bought an old desert tour Jeep (originally brought east by Rudy but I didn't buy it from him) for the tub. That didn't end up being the best decision since I had a to put a ton of money into it to fix metal fatigue and body mount issues.

So, this is where I'm at. I have my rolling chassis completed with a sandblasted and painted mint OEM frame that also has reinforcement plates welded on. Drivetrain is OBDI 4.0L with TF904/Dana 300. I have a Dana 44 rear from a 1986 CJ7 and WT Dana 30 front with 4.10s. OME 2.5" lift and M.O.R.E. shackle reversal.

The tub from the desert tour CJ8 is repaired. All body mounts fixed and holes/cracks filled. The tub was blasted and primed with epoxy prior to the repairs. It's currently just sitting on the frame with 1" Daystar poly mounts - I wanted to make sure everything would line up after the repairs and it did. Several years ago I purchased steel Poison Spyder Rocker Knockers (with tube step) and Crusher Corners (with fender flare welded on). They have been sitting on a pallet in my shop since I bought them!!!!

The original plan was to build a family cruiser that could go off road once my boys got a little older and more interested. Married with 4 kids so I need seating for 6. My kids are heavily into sports now so I don't think we will be off roading much since weekends are super busy already. Plan to run 33" tires and front Dana 30 came with a lunchbox locker so I will keep it. I am having 2nd thoughts about the Poison Spyder armor now that the Jeep is unlikely to see any serious 4x4 duty.

Where I'm stuck at is with a roll cage and seating. I want a full cage for safety - my entire family will be in this Jeep and it will see 60+ MPH on the highway for short stretches. Most family cages I've seen don't cover the 2nd rear seat well so the cage will be custom built by a local shop. Since I'm putting a cage in, I would like to integrate the seats into the cage. On Memorial Day, I almost pulled the trigger on PRP front seats and 2 rear bench seats along with 4 sets of these sweet mounts:
http://www.chassisunlimited.com/product/billet-seat-sliders.html


I got cold feet and didn't order for a few reasons:

1.) PRP seats don't recline so getting into the rear of the vehicle would be challenging. PRP seat mounts (with sliders) that fit OEM holes in the tub are $250 so that doesn't make much sense. The alternative would be Mastercrafts on my existing flip forward OEM brackets. Mastercraft rear bench seats are big bucks and use OEM holes so I wouldn't use those. I really like the billet mounts I mentioned above because it would be fairly easy to remove the rear benches if necessary. This would be an added benefit of have a cage with integrated seat mounts.

2.) THE BIG QUESTION: Is a custom full family cage really going to make a difference on a highway rollover? Will it protect both rear seats? I don't mind spending the money (figuring on $2-3k) but don't want to waste the time and effort if it really isn't going to save lives. What really got me thinking about this was looking back at my daughter when I was driving my CJ7 the other day. She's 7 and was in the rear seat with just a lap belt - happy as could be riding with Dad on beautiful sunny day. My CJ7 has a fiberglass body with OEM roll bar that is tied into the frame in the rear. In other words, she isn't really protected - especially in a roll over situation.

I have been working on this project for over 3 years. I want to finish it up so I can cruise around with my entire family in one Jeep! If I use the stock seats and roll bar I could have the Jeep on the road by the end of summer. If I go the custom roll bar route, it will be at least another year. I don't mind spending the time and money but only want to do it if it's worthwhile - what do you all think?
 
It sounds to me you have the plan, and a good one, just need to do it. I can't help with what rear seats to use as I don't have the back seat in any of the Jeeps. I am planning on Mastercraft fronts for the CJ 6 project. I think the seats built in the family roll cage is the safest. Yes, built right the cage would do a lot to protect the kids in an accident. The tour companies in Quray CO. used "six seat" Scramblers for several years with roll cages built all the way to the back.

Using stock seats should work fine, look at how the front rear seat is mounted underneath the bed and make sure the second rear is re-enforced as good or better.
 
Thanks for the reply. I re-read my post above and I suppose it sounds silly - "will a roll cage help protect my family?". I'm just struggling with justifying the added time and complexity involved with adding the cage if it won't provide measurable safety in a high speed rollover situation. The Jeep won't see much rock crawling. It's a tough call since there is no way to test it and you would certainly feel awful if something happened and you didn't have a cage. I jump in the CJ7 all the time without thinking twice about how safe it is though - maybe I should change this habit also!
 
If you are taking kids in the rear of the CJ7 or Scrambler you should have the rear caged. I believe that Jeep figured that out when they started putting in the rear bars from the factory on the YJ's. A well built cage will offer a lot of protection vs. no cage. I saw one of the cop shows where a stock YJ Jeep was rolled several times at highway speed no one in the back but the driver walked way with a couple of scratches. The factory bars are not usually built as good as a custom cage.

My CJ6 project has a full metal hard top but it is going to get a full cage inside. It was never a question for me.
 
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Certainly a full cage will provide some measure of protection for rear passengers. However, at 60+ mph if the Jeep rolls there is no garentee that bad things won't happen no matter what. At those speeds and g-forces the rollbar its self could be the very thing that causes the trauma (think hitting head against bars). The roll bar will be better then nothing but just because it is there doesn't make everything safe. Where a family cage shines is in low-speed rolls.
 
Meeting with the cage builder next week to see what we can come up.

The other drawback to the cage is how it can limit what tops you can use. I have full hard and soft tops as well as half hard top (my favorite but least family friendly!). Most likely can only use the full soft with full cage.
 
I've seen plenty of cages that isolate the front and rear cage sections so you can still use a half cab top (or a full top).
 
Spieg said:
I've seen plenty of cages that isolate the front and rear cage sections so you can still use a half cab top (or a full top).
Click to expand...

Do you have any pics by chance? Every one I have seen has a double tube set-up for the B-pillar - too bulky for my tastes.
 
There was a real nice, light blue colored Scrambler that sold recently on this forum that I believe had a real nice full cage and double rear seats. I can't seem to find a photo of it right now. Maybe someone can post it up?? The Scrambler and cage were outstanding in IMO!


 
Why not get a Rock Hard bolt in rear cage and be done with it? I would play statistic and look and see what is most probable. Most likely it's being rear ended or front end collision. A high speed roll over there is little you are going to do to a scrambler to save your life.

In 1992 or 93 Jeep Wrangler went to family style cage in rear and shoulder 3 point seat belts in the rear. I would do a simple rear care with shoulder belts for front and rear wip lash.
 
Chipster1990 said:
There was a real nice, light blue colored Scrambler that sold recently on this forum that I believe had a real nice full cage and double rear seats. I can't seem to find a photo of it right now. Maybe someone can post it up?? The Scrambler and cage were outstanding in IMO!
Click to expand...

Look for Manhattan.
 
gazzo said:
Look for Manhattan.
Click to expand...

This is the one I was thinking about! It's a single row rear seating but I like the way the cage comes across behind the rear seat. Could do something similar for two rows!

9de05c1633074e2c67565c85890234a4-1.jpg



 
Here's a 2 cage/full cage that a fellow member sold me. He had it mounted to sliders under the tub so it was a good mount to the frame. Hope the previous owner is ok with using the pics.Cage_Side_View.jpgCage_Side_View2.jpg
 
more important is good belts that are easy / comfortable enough that they are used.... can give long list of deaths / TBI "survivors" (me-week in coma ,7years learning to speak, still working on acting "normal") that had good $1000 but not wearing harness only lap belts (me-462a).

Stock retractable harness, TJ rear seat (comfy, fits perfect in scrambler)
 
Thanks for the pics but I think both of those just cover one row of back seats. Rock hard rear change wouldn't provide adequate coverage either.

I meet with the potential cgae builder Friday and will report back.
 
I met with the cage builder and came up with some good ideas. We also came up with several questions - many of which I have read about before but don't remember if there was a general consensus about a solution. I will start a separate thread about these issues.

I think I am going to with a front seat that fits on factory mounts so I can flip them forward for rear access. In the rear I am going to go with bucket style bench seats and incorporate them into the cage. This way I can remove them easily if needed using the mounts I referenced above. I don't anticipate any hard core off road use so I am going to use 3 point lap/shoulder belts for all seats.
 
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