The axle swap/wheel picture thread!

[Ron84cj]

We have other threads like "show off your colors" and "preferred tire size." Off and on for the last year I have been researching on how to do my Dana 44s and have talked to several of you about your setups. At Sandblast it was great going from Jeep to Jeep to compare what works and what doesn't so much. Let's get a thread going here describing your build along with pictures. It's very overwhelming when you first start researching this stuff. I think this would help people out greatly with figuring what they may need or at a minimum help them figure out a goal.

For example....
Front Jeep J10 Dana 44 narrowed 4.5", overall width 60.9" Moved steering box forward 1.25" and used pitman from Chevy Astro.

Rear 1994 Isuzu rodeo width 58"

35" tires on 16x8 wheels with 3.75" of backspacing

Specify if tires or steering parts rub or interfere with anything. If your setup works great or things you would do different. Or any other info you wish to share.

Pics!
Pics!
Pics!
Pics!

 

[tower210]

This is a great idea!!

 

[Ron84cj]

This is a great idea!!

I hope this thread really takes off. There is a lot of really good info on this site from various people but it's scattered all over and takes a really long time to read through and find stuff. Just trying to get all the basic stuff in one place.

 

[Chamba]

If I can find any pictures I'll add to it. I did it the cheats' way: ECGS 61" Dana 60 rear, Dana 44 front with Tom Woods drive shafts. I could not be happier.

Future plans: TDK 82-86 tall front shock mounts.

Regrets: that I didn't choose to change to 6x5.5 lug pattern when I got the axles given how limited the choices are for 5x5.5. Had I realised my 15" rims would prove a bit too small for the massive front calipers.

Disc brake master cylinder out of a disc/ disc late '60s 'Vette with booster.

 

[sdsupilot]

1978 J10 Dana 44 front. Narrowed drivers side 4.4", Moser cut and re-splined the original axle shaft. Sourced GM 3/4 ton backing plates, wheel hubs and brake rotors converting from 6 lug to 8. These hubs added 3/4 to 1" per side resulting in 62.5" WMS.

1999 E350 Dana 60U rear. Factory offset 2.5-3" to the passenger side at 67" WMS. Cut 5" off drivers side only. Replaced the E350 factory 32 spline axle shafts with Moser 35. Used factory dual piston caliper rear disc brakes. This is about 62" WMS.

For the steering I bought a parts mike passenger side flat top knuckle and crossover steering setup with a 5 5/8" flat pitman arm. Under full flex and flat compression I would get slight rubbing on the tie rod. I then installed a MORE steering box relocation bracket. This looks to have solved any interference I was getting.


I also replaced the factory brake prop valve with a disc/disc setup and a 1 1/8" corvette style master cylinder. This setup has much better braking than the OE setup with smaller tires. Eventually I will probably get an 8 or 9" dual diaphragm booster, but it works quite well as it is.

Currently have 33" tires on Ford E-series 16x7 8 on 6.5 steel wheels. These are almost a neutral offset wheel and I am 74" overall width in the front.

At this point I wouldn't have done anything different except maybe outboarding the rear shocks. It runs, drives and tracks down the road better than it ever did before. I really like the extra width everywhere, especially the trails. Before fighting the full sized ruts on the trails was a constant issue.

 

[sdsupilot]

As @Chamba noted above, wheel lug pattern selection is an important decision to make early. I stuck with 8 on 6.5 to keep my rear a FF. You can use factory dana 44 parts to get 5 on 5.5, 6 on 5.5 or 8 on 6.5.

All that said, 6 on 5.5 may be the winner as there are tons of choices for wheel selection.

 

[wjtstudios]

Fusion 4x4 Dana 44 front and rear with chromoly 35 spline shafts and ARB lockers turning 35” BFG KM3s. Fusion also built a custom 1 ton steering upfront beginning turned by a PSC big bore steering gear. The 35s are currently on my old nomads, but I will likely upgrade the wheels to KMCs or trail ready bead locks at some point down the line and will gain more backspacing there. They are on Alcan Springs with the front stretched forward 1”. The TDK frame was built with the steering gear moved forward 1” and reinforced. I also had it set up with a shackle reversal up front.

 

[Ron84cj]

As @Chamba noted above, wheel lug pattern selection is an important decision to make early. I stuck with 8 on 6.5 to keep my rear a FF. You can use factory dana 44 parts to get 5 on 5.5, 6 on 5.5 or 8 on 6.5.

All that said, 6 on 5.5 may be the winner as there are tons of choices for wheel selection.

A agree with this. That 6 on 5.5 pattern is really common. Just to throw something in there, Toyota pickups, Tacomas, and 4Runners also runs 6-5.5 lug patterns in various axle widths depending on year and some even come with a selectable locker. Those Yota axles are actually really nice. I would put them on par with the Dana 44 if not stronger. They have a removable center section like a Ford 9." I was initially going this route but ended up with my Rodeo axle for cheap.

Chamba, what wheel width, backspacing and/or offset are your wheels?

 

[Chamba]

I've got 16x8, 4.25" back space Ultra 51 rims ready to put on after a lot of searching. But in those pics they are 15x8, 4" back space ultra 51.

6x5.5 is Chevy and also the Land Cruiser 40 and 60 series. Far better choice I wish I'd thought of.

 

[tower210]

Mine isn’t swapped….but it’s on my mind/list

tires are 295/70/17 (about 34s; great size, tuck nicely). When I swapped the bigger tires it would hit the leaves well short of full lock.




So short term solution was 2” spacers



Looking at upgrading to a Dana 44 ish swap at similar width. The tires stick out of the wells just a little now; but also keeps me steering a tad farther from the body. Jeep gets 1500 miles a year at most. I’m shocked how narrow the amc20 measures face to face.



Looks like 55.75? So rear with spacers is 59.75? Looks like I could be anywhere from that to -1 and keep the stance.

 

[tower210]

Here are stock axles widths to choose from:

41 to 45 Jeep MB: 48.25"
'46 up CJ-2A, CJ-3A : 48.25"
'49-65 Jeep Utility Wagon: 57"
'49 Willys Jeepster 2WD 57"
'52 up CJ-3B: 48.44"
'52 M-38A 49.19" (Military width)
'54-71 CJ-5 48.44" (so called early-
'55-75 CJ-6 48.44" narrow axle)
'47-65 Pickup (the classic) frnt-56" rr-63.5"
'63-69 J-200, J-2000 65.5"
'63-69 J-300, J-3800 65.75"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-2000 frnt-63.5" rr-63.81"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-4000 frnt-63.8" rr-64.38"
'73 J-2500 frnt-63.5" rr-63.8"
'73 all other J trucks frnt-63.9" rr-64.4"
'74-75 J-10 frnt-62.9" rr-63.8"
'76-87 J-10 frnt-63.3" rr-63.8"
'74-75 J-20 frnt-62.9" rr-64.4"
with disc brakes: frnt-63.0" rr-64.4"
'76-84 J-20 frnt-64.9" rr-65.9"
'63-72 Wagoneer 57"
'73 Wagoneer frnt-57.3" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Wagoneer frnt-59" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Cherokee (full size) frnt-58.8' rr-57.5"
'76-91 Wagoneer, '80+ Cher frnt-59.4" rr-57.8"
'76-79 Cherokee (full size) frnt-59.2" rr-57.8"
'76-78 Cherokee S frnt-59.5" rr-58.5"
'76-80 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.4" rr-62.3"
'81-83 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.3" rr-62.3"
'67-71 Jeepster C-101 50"
'72-73 Commando C-104 frnt-51.5" rr-50"
'72-83 CJ-5, frnt-51.5" rr-50" (so called-
'76-81CJ-7(some '81CJ8's) frnt-51.5" rr-50" narrow axle)
'82-86 CJ-7 frnt-55.8" rr-55" (so called-
'81-85 Scrambler, CJ-8 frnt-55.8" rr-55" wide axle )
'84-87, 93 up Cherokee XJ 58"
'88-92 Cherokee XJ 57"
'86-92 Comanche, 57"
'87 up Wrangler, YJ 58"
'93 up Grand Cherokee, ZJ 58"
93-95 Rodeo/Passport Dana 44 58"

 

[Ron84cj]

Mine isn’t swapped….but it’s on my mind/list

tires are 295/70/17 (about 34s; great size, tuck nicely). When I swapped the bigger tires it would hit the leaves well short of full lock.

View attachment 96451

View attachment 96452
So short term solution was 2” spacers

View attachment 96453

Looking at upgrading to a Dana 44 ish swap at similar width. The tires stick out of the wells just a little now; but also keeps me steering a tad farther from the body. Jeep gets 1500 miles a year at most. I’m shocked how narrow the amc20 measures face to face.

View attachment 96454

Looks like 55.75? So rear with spacers is 59.75? Looks like I could be anywhere from that to -1 and keep the stance.

This actually surprised me. I always "knew" 😏 that the wide tracks were 56" front and 54.5" rear. I can't count the number of times I have read that in various places. After seeing your post here I went out and measured mine and sure enough, I got the same results as you.

Even with these lists of axle widths, everyone needs to take them with a grain of salt. You are really at the mercy of how one guy measures an axle vs the next guy. Everyone seems to get slightly different results. It is a great guide to get you in the ballpark but for anyone doing a swap, definitely measure everything for yourself so you know exactly where you are at with things.

tower210, what width and backspace are your wheels?

 

[tower210]

This actually surprised me. I always "knew" 😏 that the wide tracks were 56" front and 54.5" rear. I can't count the number of times I have read that in various places. After seeing your post here I went out and measured mine and sure enough, I got the same results as you.

Even with these lists of axle widths, everyone needs to take them with a grain of salt. You are really at the mercy of how one guy measures an axle vs the next guy. Everyone seems to get slightly different results. It is a great guide to get you in the ballpark but for anyone doing a swap, definitely measure everything for yourself so you know exactly where you are at with things.

tower210, what width and backspace are your wheels?

4.75"

 

[Chamba]

A little follow up on the wheels: A little follow up on the wheels. I test fit my new 16 by 8 rims and they fit just fine with plenty of clearance. I've now dropped them off at the powder coater to be powder coated Matt black and then I'll put new tires on them.

 

[FLCJ8]

It's interesting how forced perspective changes object sizes on photos.
The second photo - the new wheel on top of the existing wheel/tire - looks like my wife's Jeep with 20's.



Those should look really nice when completed.

 

[Chamba]

Picked up my 16x8 Ultra 51 rims from the powder coater. I'm pretty happy with the look, what do y'all think?

Now to decide on the rubber: I'm fairly happy with my 33x12.50 x15s now. I think I'd like a bit thinner and maybe 34" tall. I like the look of Tower210's stance. Would a 295x70x16 be similar to a 295x70x17? 265x85x16 send to be the closest to what I'm after though at 33.4"×10.6"

I don't want to go too much taller as my speedo is spot-on right now using a 29 tooth sprocket with 3:73 gears and the 33s. But a 34 should only give me about 2-3% error from what I can find. Does this sound right?

 

[tower210]

Picked up my 16x8 Ultra 51 rims from the powder coater. I'm pretty happy with the look, what do y'all think?

Now to decide on the rubber: I'm fairly happy with my 33x12.50 x15s now. I think I'd like a bit thinner and maybe 34" tall. I like the look of Tower210's stance. Would a 295x70x16 be similar to a 295x70x17? 265x85x16 send to be the closest to what I'm after though at 33.4"×10.6"

I don't want to go too much taller as my speedo is spot-on right now using a 29 tooth sprocket with 3:73 gears and the 33s. But a 34 should only give me about 2-3% error from what I can find. Does this sound right?

Wheels look great!

Biggest issue ends up being what a common size actually is. 33.5 is almost exactly the height of mine.

 

[Randyzzz]

Here’s a real cool tire comparison tool- lots of useful info!

Tire Size Calculator - Compare Tire Sizes | Tacoma World

Tire size calculator compares diameter, width, circumference and speedometer differences for any two tire sizes. Supports tire sizes in metric and inches.

www.tacomaworld.com

 

[FLCJ8]

Picked up my 16x8 Ultra 51 rims from the powder coater. I'm pretty happy with the look, what do y'all think?

Now to decide on the rubber: I'm fairly happy with my 33x12.50 x15s now. I think I'd like a bit thinner and maybe 34" tall. I like the look of Tower210's stance. Would a 295x70x16 be similar to a 295x70x17? 265x85x16 send to be the closest to what I'm after though at 33.4"×10.6"

I don't want to go too much taller as my speedo is spot-on right now using a 29 tooth sprocket with 3:73 gears and the 33s. But a 34 should only give me about 2-3% error from what I can find. Does this sound right?

Here's a chart that is helpful to get you in the ballpark without a lot of hunting around.
Not sure if the diameters are correct, but you would think the would be representative of the sizes listed.

It has a spot to compare different wheel sizes by following the easy steps.

Tire Size Chart

Easy to use tire size charts. Use our tire size chart to convert metric tire sizes to inch measurements. Click the links to find tires in each tire size.

tiresize.com

 

[Ron84cj]

This is what I use to play around with gear ratios and tire sizes.

Engine RPM Calculator