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Wider Axles on a CJ8

MomoJeep

Basic User
Silver Member
City
Seattle
State
WA
Those who have wider axles, how is the handling better/worse/different!? More stable?

And is the extra un-sprung weight noticeable?
 

MomoJeep

Basic User
Silver Member
City
Seattle
State
WA
If you were towing a 2500# boat, do you think wider axles would be a stability advantage?
 

tower210

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Olathe
State
KS
I would want to be very stock suspension height and geometry if I was towing with a scrambler...everything about lifted jeeps (soft springs; big tires) is really bad for towing... My hitch only gets used for recovery.

I tow with the Trailhotness :)
 

Chamba

Not obsessed: focused.
Member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
I've got 60.5" ECGS Dana 60 rear, Dana 44 front with discs all around. I could not be happier with the results. Mine is an '81, so a narrow track originally and it felt top-heavy with regular issues with rubbing.

I've now got the same width as a YJ and it handles better and tracks like a new car. The tyres now are in the same ruts that all the other cars make in the road so it doesn't skip from rut to rut like it used to. No issues at all with rubbing any longer and it corners like a newer Jeep does.

I've got 33s, the AX15 with 3.73 gears, Eaton E lockers and a clocked Dana 300/ twin stick like you and it's shaping up to be the perfect combo. 55 mph in 5th gear is about 1600 rpm and very comfy.

Best mod I've ever done and spacers scare me. The folks at ECGS could not be any more pleasant to deal with either. Great group of guys and very helpful. I'd recommend both wider axles and ECGS to anyone.
 

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tower210

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Olathe
State
KS
I've got 60.5" ECGS Dana 60 rear, Dana 44 front with discs all around. I could not be happier with the results. Mine is an '81, so a narrow track originally and it felt top-heavy with regular issues with rubbing.

I've now got the same width as a YJ and it handles better and tracks like a new car. The tyres now are in the same ruts that all the other cars make in the road so it doesn't skip from rut to rut like it used to. No issues at all with rubbing any longer and it corners like a newer Jeep does.

I've got 33s, the AX15 with 3.73 gears, Eaton E lockers and a clocked Dana 300/ twin stick like you and it's shaping up to be the perfect combo. 55 mph in 5th gear is about 1600 rpm and very comfy.

Best mod I've ever done and spacers scare me. The folks at ECGS could not be any more pleasant to deal with either. Great group of guys and very helpful. I'd recommend both wider axles and ECGS to anyone.

Pretty much a dream setup here....Did you swap masters to a disc/disc master? What about prop valve?
 

Chamba

Not obsessed: focused.
Member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
Pretty much a dream setup here....Did you swap masters to a disc/disc master? What about prop valve?
I swapped masters to a disc/ disc from an early 60s 'vette. I thought I'd need a new proportioning valve but it works great as is. Rear disc has hand brake on an internal drum so it really was bolt in.
 

Randyzzz

Blown Budget
BENEFACTOR
Gold Member
Lifetime Member
SOA Member
City
Redmond
State
OR
What I noticed when towing with Copper was that a heavy tongue load really wreaked havoc with stability. I had 60+ wide axles, 35” tires, and a flex RE4.5 Extreme lift with no sway bars. Yeah, there was a ton of sway even with daily driving. I towed a 3000lb trailer that was well balanced- no problem. But then I towed about 2000lbs that was really tongue heavy. It squatted the rear down and the front felt really loose, with a couple starts of the dreaded back and forth sway.

I think stock widetrack width vs wider width has less to do with stability than stiffer springs, shorter sidewalk height, and a properly balanced trailer. But remember, a Scrambler will never tow like a full size truck.
 

Chamba

Not obsessed: focused.
Member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
I've never towed with mine, but unloaded it has definately improved.
 

MomoJeep

Basic User
Silver Member
City
Seattle
State
WA
I would want to be very stock suspension height and geometry if I was towing with a scrambler...everything about lifted jeeps (soft springs; big tires) is really bad for towing... My hitch only gets used for recovery.

I tow with the Trailhotness :)

What is Trailhotness?
 

LBJeeper

New member
City
Long Beach
State
CA
I'm in the beginning stages of a swap. Picked up a 98 Isuzu D44 with 4.10 gears and a front Cherokee Chief D44. I'm planning on outboarding the springs and changing the carrier to 4.10. Try to find an Isuzu diff pre-98 so you don't have as much cutting to do. I went through many sawzall blades and cutting wheels.
 

MomoJeep

Basic User
Silver Member
City
Seattle
State
WA
I'm in the beginning stages of a swap. Picked up a 98 Isuzu D44 with 4.10 gears and a front Cherokee Chief D44. I'm planning on outboarding the springs and changing the carrier to 4.10. Try to find an Isuzu diff pre-98 so you don't have as much cutting to do. I went through many sawzall blades and cutting wheels.

Does the Isuzu rear have same spring pad locations? Same WMS width?
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
I run a 78 Cherokee NT front 44 outboarded and a HD20 Grand Waggy rear. I now have 1" wheel spacers but I'm not wider for them, it's just to run the wheels I wanted to deal with backspacing. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have outboarded and would have narrowed a WT 44 but that was beyond my ability back at the time and I didn't have a local shop I would have gone to for the narrowing/rewelding. Other than that, I absolutely love this combo for width and it's done everything I've ever needed. I really think it's the "perfect" CJ width for anything 37" or lower (I'm on 35s with 5.5" or so of lift)

I also did a set of the Xenon wide flares that look totally stock other than the width, so often times people won't realize that I'm wider than a stock WT Scrambler.

The HD20 addresses all of the lightweight AMC 20 issues and gets you larger drums (which work just fine, especially when you go up an inch in size). Aside from running mud all the time and/or just hating to deal with drums, I don't get all the disc brake swap stuff beyond it being "cool". Especially when you start having to swap master cylinders to deal with it. Maybe if you were starting from scratch, but if you have a working setup with disc/drum, there's no issue keeping it. This is one of the better braking vehicles we own. Even with the World Cab, roof rack, armor, cage, etc. I've never felt like I needed any more braking on this.

I've towed my camp trailer thousands of miles around the country, I don't have a weight on it yet, but it can't be all that much, so take it for what it's worth. I pay close attention to how I load it to get a decent tongue weight without it being too much and my Postal tows it just fine with no issues. I am a big believer in too much preparation when towing and put trailer brakes on my trailer with a controller in the Postal.

If you're going back to your boat towing, that's another animal altogether and I'd be very leery (just because it's the way I am with towing in general).

Shot camping outside of Park City on the way to SEMA 2018. You can see the wider Xenon flares that make up the difference with the axle width and a very typical amount of tire stick-out that fools folks into thinking they're stock axles.
IMG_9391.JPG
 

MomoJeep

Basic User
Silver Member
City
Seattle
State
WA
Do you think those wider axles would be good on a milder rig like mine? (32/33's with 2.5" suspension lift and 1" body lift).

I don't want to bigger on the lift, nor modify my fender wells. I'd be afraid the wider axles would put tires into the fenders themselves rather than up into the wells.... ?
 

Ron84cj

Engine nerd
Lifetime Member
City
West Bend
State
WI
I run a 78 Cherokee NT front 44 outboarded and a HD20 Grand Waggy rear. I now have 1" wheel spacers but I'm not wider for them, it's just to run the wheels I wanted to deal with backspacing. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have outboarded and would have narrowed a WT 44 but that was beyond my ability back at the time and I didn't have a local shop I would have gone to for the narrowing/rewelding. Other than that, I absolutely love this combo for width and it's done everything I've ever needed. I really think it's the "perfect" CJ width for anything 37" or lower (I'm on 35s with 5.5" or so of lift)

I also did a set of the Xenon wide flares that look totally stock other than the width, so often times people won't realize that I'm wider than a stock WT Scrambler.

The HD20 addresses all of the lightweight AMC 20 issues and gets you larger drums (which work just fine, especially when you go up an inch in size). Aside from running mud all the time and/or just hating to deal with drums, I don't get all the disc brake swap stuff beyond it being "cool". Especially when you start having to swap master cylinders to deal with it. Maybe if you were starting from scratch, but if you have a working setup with disc/drum, there's no issue keeping it. This is one of the better braking vehicles we own. Even with the World Cab, roof rack, armor, cage, etc. I've never felt like I needed any more braking on this.

I've towed my camp trailer thousands of miles around the country, I don't have a weight on it yet, but it can't be all that much, so take it for what it's worth. I pay close attention to how I load it to get a decent tongue weight without it being too much and my Postal tows it just fine with no issues. I am a big believer in too much preparation when towing and put trailer brakes on my trailer with a controller in the Postal.

If you're going back to your boat towing, that's another animal altogether and I'd be very leery (just because it's the way I am with towing in general).

Shot camping outside of Park City on the way to SEMA 2018. You can see the wider Xenon flares that make up the difference with the axle width and a very typical amount of tire stick-out that fools folks into thinking they're stock axles.
View attachment 84685
What wheels do you have? Do you happen to remember the backspacing and rim width? I've always liked the stance of your Jeep.
 

bigwalton

Alaskan Postal nutjob
FORUM MANAGER
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
What wheels do you have? Do you happen to remember the backspacing and rim width? I've always liked the stance of your Jeep.

Icon Alloy "Rebound" wheels, if you look them up, I don't think there were multiple models in 17" six lug, I just had to go with the one they had, hence the spacers. I do feel that I'm at the perfect width/stance for my eye and what I do with my Postal.
 

sdsupilot

CJ-8 Member
Member
City
OKC
State
OK
The Isuzu rear I got was from a 98, which meant it had coil springs. No biggie, spring perches are cheap and would have had to be relocated anyway.

The thing to remember on the Isuzu is that it came in 3 different widths as well. 92-95 was 58", 96-97 was 60.5" and 98+ is like 63". The earlier ones are leaf sprung, newer come with coils. When scrounging junkyards I found no rhyme or reason for disc vs drum brakes. I found several that the internet assured me would come with certain gears with certain brakes. However, the internet lied and I never found a drum brake 4.56 in the 92-97 range I was searching for.

So, I decided to get a Ford 8.8 with disc brakes. I will get either Dutchman or Moser axles with 5 on 5.5 to stay with the wheels I already have. I have a J-10 44 and I will need a set of early wagoneer/GM small bearing spindles. I will then run ford hubs/rotors with GM brake calipers. Should end up 59.5" wms in the rear. 61-61.5" front with stock 27.5" CJ spring spacing.
 
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