Retitled: 83 Scrambler resto-mod finally gaining momentum

[Bushmaster6]

fuel hoses from MTS are on a 90-day backorder....

I called Morris 4x4 and they had them (MTS make) in stock with the right part number.. but the website showed them for an 81-82 application (different sizes).. I ordered them just to see if they work. I think I found a thread in here once that said they were the right application despite the product description... :fingerscrossed

 

[kctango]

I did the same thing today ordered and hope it works. All I needed was the fill hose which is the one MTS has on backorder.

 

[kctango]

Mine came in today and yes it is a little longer but I t can adapt it to fit with no problem, here's a picture.

 

[Bushmaster6]

Keith,

did you order from Morris? I received my two hoses today and they are both wrong. One is a Crown product (second time I"ve received that in the mail) and the otehr looks like a 20gal fill tube for a CJ7.. about 5-6 inches too short..

where did you get these and with what part #?

 

[kryptoniteCJ8]

Keith,

did you order from Morris? I received my two hoses today and they are both wrong. One is a Crown product (second time I"ve received that in the mail) and the otehr looks like a 20gal fill tube for a CJ7.. about 5-6 inches too short..

where did you get these and with what part #?

If your looking for the 20 gal. Fill and vent here you go. I ordered both directly from MTS.
This is the fill hose just replace the "F" with a "V" for the vent.

 

[Bushmaster6]

MTS is showing them on backorder. Eric "the JeepGuy" that's been referenced on this forum confirmed they were on 90-day backorder.

I called some retail outlets (in this case Morris) and gave them the MTS part numbers, which they showed in stock.. yet I got a part by Crown and another no-named.. have to call tomorrow and see if I can un-screw them. I was wondering when/where Keith got his (this week), if I need to find a new supplier...

 

[kctango]

I purchased mine from morris after I saw you going that route, mine arrived with the MTS number on the hose CFJHCJ8-20, my vent hose I purchased from MTS when I got my sending unit from them it was a perfect fit, I wanted to get the fill hose from them but they stated that they lost a 90 hose shipment and had to remake and it would be a few months so i've been waiting until I saw your post. Here's a picture of the hose with the numbers on them one was direct from MTS (vent hose perfect fit) the other from morris still the MTS hose but needs about 2" trimmed off and will work. Shown also the sales slip from morris.

 

[Bushmaster6]

thanks Keith.. I appreciate you taking the time to post that.

Just called Morris4x4 and re-ordered. I actually emailed the pics to the guy on the phone to let them know they will work on an 83+ with the 20 gallon tank.. the part numbers on the MTS website match that application, but in the retailers websites they show for 81-82, just like your invoice.

 

[Bushmaster6]

I've got fuel to the rail (under pressure)...
I've got spark (confirmed by turning over motor with one spark plug removed)...
I've spaced/moved the new CPS several times and checked that it's mounted per the instructions.

It's not starting..

I'm wondering if I've got no action at the injectors... been reading the FSM/wiring diagrams and wondering if there's a ground I need to make at the ASD (auto shutdown) relay
EDIT: just went out and checked voltage at the green/orange supply wire to 2 of the injectors with the vehicle power on.. reading 7.2 volts..

 

[Bushmaster6]

toubleshooting priorities/way ahead?

well, as described above, it's not starting.. trying to figure out what/how to proceed... and thinking of the relevant things that would allow me to get it turning over but absolutely no indication of it "firing"..

Neutral safety/"park" inidcator. I grounded the wire from pin 30 from the PCM to the body. I did not do anything with the other side of that wire (that routes back through the harness to teh PDC).

CPS: it's mounted using the HESCO relocation kit on the new harmonic balancer. I think (think!) that when I reassembled the engine and had it on the stand that I had it at TDC, and the dsitributor is lined up under spark plug wire 1 (or was before I started cranking it). If I had the crank 180 degrees out, would I get this condition, or a really rough attempt to start?

I've got pressurized fuel at the rail, but as long as I continue to turn the engine over I'm not getting a fuel smell (ie: like a flooded caburetor).. not sure if MPFI eliminates that sympton..

Injectors: with power on I'm showing voltage (7.1-7.2) at the hot wire to each injector, which tells me that switched power from the PDC is making it over there. I don't have a stethoscope so I can for sure tell thta the injectors are injecting when I'm cranking.

I pulled the number 2 spark plug and had wife turn motor over: good spark.

 

[Bushmaster6]

guys, need help diagnosising if I installed timing chain on the exhaust stroke (180 out)...

so, been messing around trying to get this straight: I've manually set the balancer timing mark to 0, rotated the terminal under the distributor cap to the number one, and attempted to start the vehicle. No good. So I hand crank the timing mark back to 0, and pull the distributor cap, and the terminal under the cap now points 180 degrees from 1, where I set it?

If I did install it 180 out, do I need to pull the front covers and re-install, or install the dizzy 180 out and move the plug wires around 1/2 way each?

 

[spankrjs]

Remove the #1 spark plug.
Get someone else to slowly "bump the engine over" while you keep your thumb over the open spark plug hole.
When you feel the air blow past your thumb, immediately stop spinning the engine.
Pull the cap off.
If you are not looking at #1 on the distributor, you have a problem.

Also, you can spin the engine over by hand with a socket/big ratchet on the crank, but easier to key "bump" it.
When you feel the air, stop. Then place a screwdriver gently down the spark plug hole. You should feel the piston close to the top. Turn crank with ratchet, when the piston reaches the highest spot, using the inserted screw driver as a depth gauge, stop turning. You will be at TDC.

Hope this helps, and hope you are not 180 out

 

[Bushmaster6]

Remove the #1 spark plug.

Hope this helps, and hope you are not 180 out

tracking on the checking TDC.. will start with a compression gauge and then then remove/do the pencil/stick bit to hit true TDC.. was wondering if the apparent reversal of the rotor under the dizzy cap was a sign.. or if that meant I'd only rotated the crank once and the cam 1/2 way... will have to pull the A/C compressor off it's mount to get access to #1

if I am 180-out.. does that = pull front cover off and start over?

 

[gaducker]

Get you something long and flexable to put down in the spark plug hole to determine TDC.

Bring it up then check your rotor button to be pointed at number one.

if it out 180 pull the dist out point it at number one and slide it back in.

That's assuming the gears were installed right.

When I rebuilt my gasser I paid close attention to the timing and thought I had it all taken care of and it should have fired right up but it didn't, I check all kinds of stuff because I swore it was timed right so after an hour or so of checking things I gave in and spun the dist 180 and it fired right up.

 

[Bushmaster6]

see video below of start attempt:

I confirmed TDC in cylinder 1 matched the timing mark on the harmonic balancer which also put the rotor at (or near) cap position #1. I pulled the dizzy a few more times and moved it one gear fore/back and that made little differences..

motor turns over and I get a sound like it wants to start, but it's like it gets JUST shy of starting..

I am NOT getting a strong sense of fuel (or really any at all), and I'm starting to think it's starved for fuel.. which makes me wonder if it's a CPS issue or if I don't have something grounded to set the signal for the PCM to send the injectors the right signal..

here's a video of what it sounds like:

[video]http://s163.beta.photobucket.com/user/Bushmaster6/media/4L%20refresh/IMG_1516_zps52616034.mp4.html[/video]

 

[gaducker]

DO you have enough fuel pressure at the rail? What is the fuel press at the rail?

Get u some help and a gas soaked rag and see if it will run off that.

 

[Bushmaster6]

DO you have enough fuel pressure at the rail? What is the fuel press at the rail?

Get u some help and a gas soaked rag and see if it will run off that.

I don't have the pressure reading, but when I depress the little bleeder tip at the middle of the fuel rail it sprays with alot of force. Before I got enough gas in the tank I pulled the supply line at the fuel rail and it made a distinct "pop" sound from the air pressure it was pushing.

 

[gaducker]

I don't have the pressure reading, but when I depress the little bleeder tip at the middle of the fuel rail it sprays with alot of force. Before I got enough gas in the tank I pulled the supply line at the fuel rail and it made a distinct "pop" sound from the air pressure it was pushing.

While I have not messed with 4.0 fuel injection parameters I do know that on a gmc jimmy the diffrence of 3 lbs makes all the diffrence in walking and riding. 40 lbs and old fuel pump no motor running, 43 lbs with new fuel pump motor was as happy as could be.

If you soak a rag with gas and hold it over the throttle body that will let you know if your timing is right and that you dont have sufficent fuel delivery.

 

[bigwalton]

Video not working for me, I get a blank photobucket page.

And you confirmed TDC on compression stroke, right?

I picked up a fuel pressure guage that plugs into that port on the rail, it would be good to be certain you're on the money with pressure though I know your filter/regulator SHOULD be doing it's thing properly.

 

[Bushmaster6]

Video not working for me, I get a blank photobucket page.

And you confirmed TDC on compression stroke, right?

I've never posted a video link before but used the same basic process as the picture links.. wonder if you have to have a login to see?

yep, hit TDC with air blow by from #1 plug hole confirmed at teh top of the stroke with a pencil while manually cranking the engine, timing mark was dead on and the rotor was lined up with #1 post on the cap...

tonight I had wife turn it over (it's nearly dead now) but jabbed a multi-meter post into the injector lead that comes from the computer to and got varying voltage signal as the engine turned over.. voltage present but sort of all over the place...

all i wanted was to make sure it was at least getting a signal, as I got constant 7.2 voltage from the relay side to the other wire in the injector harness.. this leads me to believe that it's not a failure in power to the injector nor signal to the injector..

I'll try and isolate fuel pressure and see what I get.. I'll rent a fuel pressure gauge from O'Reilly's tomorrow if I can get to it after work...