My '81 journey. . . so far.

This has been a roller coaster of an experience so far. But, just to get things out to maybe clear my head and also to let my fellow 8 owners know how the trip is going.

July '25) 81 Scrambler is delivered to the house. I notice right away that there are a few minor issues. Nothing big, but things I'd like to change/fix. I drive it around to the back of the house where I can work on it. I discover the following.
- Half of the switches on the dash don't work at all, DOA.
- It doesn't have the 4 speed or Dana 300 (as advertised)
- It doesn't have the 'glass tub as advertised
I tinker with it on and off, taking around the block a few times to test things out. I notice that it stalls if I hit the brake and have the turn signal on. And I find out only the right turn signal works as the clock spring is toast, so that gets replaced right away.
Aug '25) I keep fiddling with things, trying to get grounds good, still dealing with electrical issues. That continues until Nov '25 when I buy the Painless harness
Dec '25) Install the Painless wiring harness, and in the process I find all kinds of splices and just cut wires in the factory harness I pull out. I would have spend months chasing all of that. I get the harness in, some things work some things don't. I find a blown fuse right off the bat and the one relay for the turn signals doesn't work. Headlights and front running lights don't come on. Fuel gauge isn't working again but I may have wired that backwards, and my back up lights don't work. I spend several days fixing bad grounds (not in the Painless harness, on the Jeep). I get the front lights working (still don't know how). I get the turn signals working, that is how I found the bad relay. Now the backup lights. This is where I really kick myself. I am trouble shooting them as I had to replace the reverse switch and I know it is wired correctly. My dumbass put the tail light lenses on upside down, and yes, they have "TOP" stamped in them. Flip the lenses, and my backup lights work!
Now I just need to figure out why this stupid DuraSpark ignition isn't letting me start the Jeep. I have 12V at the coil, but she won't fire. I still have to put some shrink tube on a few of the wires I won't need, like the clock and tach. I don't have either of them.
The list of "This needs fixed" keeps getting longer and longer, and I don't seem to see an end. But, I have one beautiful Scrambler to tinker with, Rowena is her name.

The list of good far outweighs the bad. The 'glass tub is actually full steel, and most likely original as it has the VIN plate still riveted to the firewall and the sides are stamped "Jeep" not "Joop" or smooth. It has a good running 258 with a knockoff Weber 38 carb, the T150 3 speed is smooth enough for around town, and the Dana 20 transfer case works well. I need to adjust the shift boots so they don't mess with the 4wd engagement. I still need to fix the entire heating system. Heater core has been bypassed and I don't know if the fan motor works as the switch to turn it on is seized up and does nothing. But the ducting is there (except for the defroster mid hose) The frame is solid and the axles, even tho they are narrow trac, are in good shape. New brakes front and rear, decent tires, nice wheels. I do plan to upgrade to an HEI Ignition, but hopefully I can get her running again before then.

What I have gotten done, really does make me feel good and gives me some satisfaction that she will be on the road again soon. My goal is to drive her to work by the end of January. Wish me luck, I have a feeling I'm going to need it!

Sounds like you bought it without actually seeing it. Must have been a good price. Big plus on the steel body. You've really been working steady on it. Congradulations. Pictures?

It was bought, mostly sight unseen. I saw quite a few pictures on the site where it was being sold, but I didn't get a chance to look first hand as it was in Rhode Island and I'm in Nevada lol. It was, in my opinion, a good deal. I have been steadily working on it, trying to fix the mistakes of the previous "restorer" and also to make it my own. I will have to get some new pictures with the dash from my 84 and some of the other little things I have done. Took the half aluminum doors off, might sell those. Took the back seat out, probably going to try and sell that. As for the rest of the "issues", I look at them as an opportunity to make this Scrambler better. Plus I put pride in doing it the right way and not cutting too many egregious corners haha.

Have you posted any pictures of your Jeep? We want to see some!

Did you purchase this CJ8 from Smithfield Classic Cars? If so, I looked at this (red) CJ8, test drove it, and seriously considered buying it. I thought it was odd that it had a 3-speed transmission and was curious how it would perform on the highway. I did find a post where someone in FL was working on it before it went up for auction; I'll see if I can find that post for you.

The dealer didn't know that the body wasn't fiberglass or that it was a 3-speed. I actually asked the dealership about fixing the switches on the dash; apparently, they never did. If you were not aware, the dealer also needed to have the transmission rebuilt before he shipped it from FL to his dealership in RI. I thought the frame and body looked good, but you are right, it still needs a few things, but nothing big.

If you click on the OP name in the following post, you will find additional photos and posts of the work he did as a previous owner, including paint: https://www.facebook.com/share/1TffjYNVLx/

As a matter of fact I did buy it from them. I know it sounds like a lot of complaints, but yes the body and frame are all in great shape. The fixes, other than the electrical issues, aren’t really that hard to deal with. It’s just the time and effort.
No, they never fixed a bloody thing lol. But at then end of the day, what I’m going to be using the Jeep for, it’s just fine and if I really want a 5 speed, I have a T5 with a Dana 300 with bell housing I can swap in.

The dash that was in it was a hacked up stainless steel POS. I put the dash from the pile of parts from my 84 8. Looks odd, but I’m too old to actually care.

I just looked at the FaceBook posts and what not from the OP in the post you linked. I have to really question what he actually did now. The dash is different than what was in it when I got it, no floor mats at all, the decals are gone off the hood. A bit of head scratching going on over here. Eh, I don't think I will fester on it too much, she is all mine now and I can give her the love and attention she needs to be a proper driver. Once I get the HEI ignition for her, and get her running right again, then I will get my "To Do" list together and get her right, well as right as I can. But I plan on putting some work and miles into her!

It looks nice!
A dealer not being able to tell if an old Jeep body is fiberglass or steel is pretty bad(everybody has a magnet). Would honestly make me not believe much of anything they would say about any vehicle they sell.

It appears that someone purchased it and made additional changes at some point. Regardless, I just thought the FB posts might give you additional insight into it’s history. Good luck with it, I look forward to seeing what changes you make, to make it your own!

Kirk said:

It appears that someone purchased it and made additional changes at some point. Regardless, I just thought the FB posts might give you additional insight into it’s history. Good luck with it, I look forward to seeing what changes you make, to make it your own!

Click to expand...

It does, actually. It is kind of cool to see a previous iteration of the Jeep and seeing where it was when I got it home, and then yet today when I have done a few things already. Thank you for that information.

Finally got 98% of the wiring taken care of. Found a few bad parts and sensors after that. So I have a new "To Do" list. Currently waiting for the new plug wires to arrive so I can get the HEI distributor installed and get her timed. After that, I can put together the list in an organized fashion and start getting her back to her glory. If everything goes well, I should be driving her by the end of the month.

And the frustration just keeps building. I got the wiring harness all done, got the DUI HEI distributor in, and she still will not fire up. I can crank till the battery goes dead, but no fire. I have spark, I have air, and I have fuel, I can smell the gas as I try to fire it up. I do also need to reach out to Painless, the harness keeps blowing the fuse for the gauges, and I can't seem to trace that issue either. Starting to regret the wiring harness "upgrade" as it is giving me just as much trouble as the original hacked up harness.
The only thing I can think of with the spark is that maybe the plugs are not producing the quality of spark that is needed from them being gapped so wide, as the HEI calls for .50 to .55 gap and the factory plugs call for .35 so maybe when I get the new NGK plugs this week that will solve that issue. However, the blowing of the gauge fuse all the time is really becoming a frustration.

Having been there with a different jeep, I can sense the frustration. The re-wire is probably still a great thing to do because it eliminates alot of questions and probably alot of issues down the road. I did a lot with ChatGPT on my TJ to solve an ignition problem and it was very helpful. If its any help, I ran your last post through ChatGPT and got this result. Maybe it will be of some help. Remember, everything below this line isnt me... its ChatGPT. Fair warning.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You’re not crazy—what you’re describing is exactly the kind of compound frustration that happens when ignition + fuel + wiring are all touched at once. The good news is this can be broken down methodically. The bad news is you have to temporarily ignore the emotional damage and treat it like a systems failure

I’m going to split this into two parallel diagnostic tracks so you don’t chase your tail:

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TRACK 1: “It cranks but will not fire” (Primary Issue)​

You already have crank + spark + fuel smell, which narrows this a LOT. When an engine has all three and still won’t even pop, it’s almost always:

1. Spark at the wrong time
2. Spark too weak under compression
3. Fuel present but not combustible (flooded or not atomized)
4. Distributor indexing / firing order issue

Let’s walk this in a strict order.

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STEP 1: Verify TRUE TDC and distributor indexing (do not assume)​

This is the #1 failure point after HEI installs, especially on AMC engines.

Do this exactly:​

1. Pull #1 spark plug
2. Put your finger over the hole
3. Bump the starter until you feel compression pushing your finger
4. Stop immediately
5. Rotate the engine by hand to 0° on the timing tab

Now look at the distributor:

• Rotor must be pointing directly at the #1 terminal
• Not “close”
• Not “one tooth off”
• Not “it ran before like this”

AMC distributors are easy to install 180° out because the oil pump drive can mislead you.

If it’s off:

• Pull distributor
• Re-index oil pump drive with a long screwdriver
• Drop it back in so the rotor lands exactly where #1 is

---

STEP 2: Confirm firing order AND rotation (critical)​

AMC 258 / 4.2L firing order:
1-5-3-6-2-4

But here’s the trap:

• Distributor rotation is CLOCKWISE
• Many people wire it counter-clockwise out of habit

Action:​

• Watch the rotor turn while cranking
• Follow the firing order in the actual rotation direction

This alone has “saved” more HEI swaps than any other fix.

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STEP 3: Spark quality test (not just “spark exists”)​

A spark that jumps in open air can completely fail under compression.

Proper test:​

• Pull a plug wire
• Insert a spare plug
• Ground the plug to the block
• Crank the engine

You want:

• Bright blue / white snap
• Loud, sharp crack

If it’s:

• Yellow
• Thin
• Intermittent
  → that spark will NOT light a mixture at .050"+ gap.

About your plug gap suspicion​

You are 100% correct to question this.

• HEI can run .050–.055
• But:
  
  • New engine? OK
  • Old engine, stock compression, cold start? Often too much

Recommendation:

• Gap new NGKs at .045
• That’s a safe middle ground
• Once running, you can experiment wider

---

STEP 4: Eliminate flooding (very likely right now)​

If you’ve been cranking a lot and smelling fuel, assume it’s flooded.

Do this:​

1. Hold throttle wide open
2. Disable fuel (pull coil power OR fuel pump relay if electric)
3. Crank for 10–15 seconds
4. Reconnect fuel
5. Try again with ¼ throttle

If it fires briefly and dies → you’re close.

---

STEP 5: Verify HEI power supply (non-negotiable)​

HEI must have full battery voltage while cranking.

Check:​

• Key ON: 12V at HEI BAT terminal
• Cranking: still above 10.5V

If the Painless harness is feeding it through:

• A resistor wire
• An ignition “run” circuit not tied to “start”

→ you’ll get spark but not enough energy to fire.

HEI needs:

• Dedicated 12ga wire
• Switched ignition
• No ballast resistor
• No factory resistance wire

---

TRACK 2: Gauge fuse blowing (Secondary but dangerous)​

This must be fixed, because it can absolutely interfere with ignition and starting.

A repeatedly blown gauge fuse = dead short to ground.

---

STEP 6: Isolate the gauge circuit (fast method)​

1. Install a fresh fuse
2. Turn key to RUN
3. If fuse blows immediately → short is constant
4. Unplug:
   
   • Fuel gauge sender
   • Oil pressure sender
   • Temp sender
   • Voltmeter feed
     (one at a time)

When the fuse stops blowing → you found the branch.

---

STEP 7: Most common Painless gauge faults (by far)​

Based on experience, look here first:

1. Fuel sender wire grounded​

• Sender terminal touching tank
• Wrong sender type (GM vs AMC resistance mismatch)
• Sender ground tied incorrectly

2. Oil pressure sender mismatch​

• Electric sender wired like a switch
• Using a warning-light sender on a gauge circuit

3. Dash cluster ground missing​

• Painless relies heavily on proper grounding
• No ground → current seeks ground through sender → fuse pops

Add:

• Dedicated ground strap from dash to firewall
• Dedicated ground from engine to frame
• Dedicated ground from battery to body

---

STEP 8: Temporarily remove gauges from the equation​

This is important mentally and mechanically.

• Pull the gauge fuse
• Leave gauges dead
• Focus ONLY on:
  
  • HEI power
  • Starter
  • Coil

The engine does not need gauges to run.
Once it fires, your morale will improve dramatically.

---

Your plug theory — verdict​

Reasonable
Plausible
Not the root cause by itself

Wide gaps will:

• Make cold starting harder
• Expose marginal voltage supply
• Expose grounding problems

But they won’t cause zero fire if timing and indexing are correct.

---

If I had to bet money (based on everything you wrote)​

Top 3 most likely causes:

1. Distributor indexed wrong or firing order following wrong rotation
2. HEI not getting full voltage during crank
3. Engine flooded from repeated cranking

Gauge fuse issue:

• Almost certainly sender wiring or missing dash ground
• Not a bad Painless harness, just unforgiving

---

Next steps (do these in order)​

1. Re-check true TDC and rotor alignment
2. Verify distributor rotation and firing order direction
3. Confirm HEI voltage while cranking
4. Gap plugs to .045
5. Disable gauges temporarily
6. Call Painless after you isolate the branch

If you want, next time we can:

• Draw a minimal “engine must run” wiring diagram
• Or walk through Painless gauge wiring color-by-color
• Or troubleshoot AMC-specific HEI quirks

You’re closer than it feels. This is the hardest phase.

That is quite thorough. I will be working through some of this on Sunday. Some of it I know is good, firing order, plug wire location, stuff like that. However, I have a feeling after reading this, I am probably not timed correctly and I have to adjust the distributor to get it lined up better.
As for the gauge fuse, after reading this through, I think the wires on the fuel gauge is the issue. I'll have to pop the speedo out and check them.

Thank you for the very detailed process I need, reading it gave me some clarity and focus to realize, yeah, I have some things to tweak, but I am in the final stretch in getting the 8 back on the road and I need to quit letting myself get frustrated. Hopefully I will have a good update on Sunday or Monday.

Thanks again!

Just catching up on all of this. I would have suggested doublechecking TDC because the 180° out thing is common and I've been there myself. I use the wadded ball of electrical tape in stuck in the spark plug hole as I turn the crank by hand to find compression stroke.


On the gauge fuse blowing, how many grounds have you added beyond stock? I am a HUGE fan of adding as many extra grounds as possible between the things that should be grounded. Body/frame/battery/engine. Whenever I replaced a heavy battery cable with eyes, I'd look for someplace to reuse it as a ground. With old CJs, assuming the stock grounds are all fine is a recipe for trouble. I sand off paint/crud, use star washers and dielectric grease wherever I put them.

This might be a dumb question, but is it possible to have the timing mark on the crank pully be incorrect or out of spec? I ask, as I thought they were keyed and could only be installed in one way. With the HEI, there is no defined placement of the wires, as the distributor will spin to adjust. I set the timing mark to the 0 on the timing pointer, and verified that the piston was at TDC. With the distributor installed, cap off, I looked at the position of the rotor, I set the base of the distributor to be able to line up one of the plug wires with that. I am within a couple of degrees. I put the plug wires back on, in the 153642 firing order, and I don't get a damn thing when I crank it over. I don't get backfires, I don't get a stumble. I have verified that there is, in fact, 12v going to the HEI, I did not verify the strength of the spark, but there is spark. I know that there is juice going through the wires. I hooked up a timing light when I cranked it, and the light flashes, so I know the spark is getting through the wires. I would think if I was 180 out, there would still be some attempt to make fire, but nothing. No pops, burbles, backfires, not even a dry fart coming out of this thing. I know I have gas and air, I verified the spray in the carb, and it won't even try with the air filter off. I also have the vacuum line off, but does it need to be blocked off on the distributor to get it to run? Could that be my entire problem? I don't have the vacuum advance plugged and that is causing the problem?

As for the gauge problem, I have added one additional ground wire. I may have to pull the dash back out to add a few more. I think that is my wiring on the back of the speedometer, I think I had the 2 wires for the fuel gauge backwards. I switched them and cycled the key a few times (while trying to get the damned thing to start) and checked the fuse every time, still solid. I will see if I can add at least one or 2 more ground wires to the firewall to possibly help that issue. I think I will pick up another 5 gallon can of gas for it this week sometime and see if the fuel gauge works. I am sure there is only a few gallons in the tank, but should still be enough to get it to start.

This jeep was supposed to help my mental health, not drive another nail in the coffin of it.

Well, I’m stumped. I tried 180 out and it does the same thing. Cranks and cranks but won’t catch. I spent the time double and triple checked TDC on compression and I’m good there. It seems that it was 180 out. My dumba$$ forgot that in a 4 stroke engine there are 2 TDC’s. However, there is no difference in the engine. It doesn’t even feel like it’s trying to fire. I really am at a loss. I’ve even re-gapped the first 3 plugs to .45 and still nothing. I’m ready to donate it to Nellis AFB for target practice. I might try new plugs at factory gap and see what happens.

Could be a bad HEI module, even if it is new.

Does this HEI set up have an external coil?