5 Bolt Hubs & studs

[CJeep]

Just checking to see if anyone can help me out. I'm sick of the bolts on my 5-bolt hubs backing out.

I do not want to swap over to the 6-bolt hub at this time (hoping to do a D44 in a year or so).

I think Warn used to make a stud kit. I see a kit on the 'net that claims to be the Warn kit, but it gets horrible reviews.

Does anyone have the exact specs for studs that will work? Seems to me to get them to bottom out in the hub, they need to be the exact right length. I also think the threads are fine, but the exposed end should be coarse.

If anyone has done this, and has specs or part #s, I would appreciate it.

thanks - Opp

 

[spankrjs]

I have some information at home, I will post up later.

The biggest thing with the studs:

You want a "smooth" portion between the two sets of threads. This "smooth" portion will have a slightly bigger OD, which will fit tightly into the 5 locating holes of the lock in hubs. If the holes in the lock in hubs are worn out, you will be wasting your time. With worn holes, the hub will "rock" back and forth, potentially loosening the studs/nuts.

I bought some studs from McMaster Carr, but I do not think they will work that well.

I bought some Warn studs, they do not impress me (the ones they used to sell were great, the studs they sell today are crap).

I also bought some Nord-Lock washers, they look promising:

Nord-Lock Washers

Wedge-locking security for bolted joints subjected to extreme vibration and dynamic loads

www.nord-lock.com

I bought them from their US supplier, I think it was $20 for a pack of 20.

I will post up more later.

 

[sdsupilot]

I had similar experiences with 5 bolt hubs. They were OK prior to installing a lunchbox locker. After that I had the hubs break and bolts continually back out. Apparently (prior to my ownership) the bolts came loose enough to damage the threads and/or hubs themselves as they were drilled/tapped to the next size. I switched to 6 bolt hubs after breaking a few 5 bolt ones. They were much better as they only slightly loosened after the first wheeling trip.

Had a buddys Scout II with a dana 44 and external (like a CJ) hubs that were studded with Loctite. With a lunchbox they still would come loose. Ironically now we both have internal hubs. I have a J10 44, he has a king pin dana 60.

That's a really long way of saying I would just remember to retorque the 5 bolt hubs before wheeling if you are planning on a replacement/axle swap in the near future.

 

[spankrjs]

I had similar experiences with 5 bolt hubs. They were OK prior to installing a lunchbox locker. After that I had the hubs break and bolts continually back out. Apparently (prior to my ownership) the bolts came loose enough to damage the threads and/or hubs themselves as they were drilled/tapped to the next size. I switched to 6 bolt hubs after breaking a few 5 bolt ones. They were much better as they only slightly loosened after the first wheeling trip.

Had a buddys Scout II with a dana 44 and external (like a CJ) hubs that were studded with Loctite. With a lunchbox they still would come loose. Ironically now we both have internal hubs. I have a J10 44, he has a king pin dana 60.

That's a really long way of saying I would just remember to retorque the 5 bolt hubs before wheeling if you are planning on a replacement/axle swap in the near future.

I had 6 bolt hubs on both of my '78 CJ-7's, never had a problem, when they had open differentials.

Once I put an Aussie Locker in the front, I could not keep the bolts tight. I switched to the Warn Internal mount lock in hubs and never looked back

I would think the 5 bolt hubs "could" survive if/maybe:

1) the wheel hub threads are still in great shape
2) the bolt holes in the lock in hubs are not "egged" out
3) open differential
4) studs or grade 8 bolts, Red LockTite, maybe some fancy washers like I posted above
5) regular/easy use (no rocks or high RPM mud bogging)

 

[don87401]

Some thing a bunch of us did when we were having loose stud issues is we choose a longer grade 8 bolt that the area just below the head was un-threaded and modified them to use. We used the type of washer listed above, took the thickness of the hub flange and washers and found the bolt the had the un-threaded section just a tad shorter than that length. Trimmed the threads down to make the bolt the right length to match the old bolts to get the correct thread depth in rotor. Locktited and torqued them down correctly I never had those loosen up again. And it has been years of driving.

 

[Jeeper_4_Life]

I couldn't keep mine tight. Checked them all the time was about the only solution when running 5 bolt lockouts. I changed to 6 bolt hubs, lockouts, and warn stud kit and didn't have much issue after that. I'm now D44 with internal's. You could try safety wiring them after you get safety wire bolts or drill them yourself. Not done it or seen it done so don't know it is possible.

 

[Belizeit]

I like the safety wire idea if that is possible, but finding the right bolts or drilling them myself sound difficult.

 

[ag4ever]

I like the safety wire idea if that is possible, but finding the right bolts or drilling them myself sound difficult.

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[Belizeit]

Interesting find on the fixture. I do have the plyers already

 

[spankrjs]

This is the Warn stud kit:





The problem - the non threaded portion of the stud between the two threaded ends has a smaller OD then the threads, so the the studs will not fit tightly inside the bolt holes in the lock in hubs. This will allow motion, and looseness:



If you Google this Warn part number all the pictures show a fat center section. That is how they used to be, not anymore.

Typical picture, note the center section.

Warn External Hub Stud Kit - For Scout II, Terra or Traveler

Warn External Hub Stud Kit - For Two Hubs.<br><br>Replaces the bolts that are normally used on your 1971-80 Scout II, Terra or Traveler and 1974-75 Pickup, Travelette or Travelall.<br><br>. Studs do not have the tendency to loosen like bolts do.<br><br>

www.ihpartsamerica.com

Here is an online review:

Warn Stud kit for locking hubs6 months ago
Not as pictured. Picture shows enlarged diameter in the unthreaded section between the two threaded ends of the studs, the set I received don't have this, actually smaller diameter than the threads. My wheel hubs have counterbores that extend about 3/8" into the hubs before female threads start. The shoulder of the original bolts fit pretty snugly down into these counterbores. A lot of torque gets put on the studs/bolts. I will mark the locking hubs and wheel hub after installation, but have no doubts they are going to be moving slightly in relation to each other, eventually damaging the studs or the wheel hub threads.
GREGORY · Reviewed on Summit Racing Equipment

I bought these studs from McCaster-Carr, probably not the best choice, but they are cheap. Note the fat OD center section, this is what you need:



I do not have a loose wheel hub to play with right now. BUT, if the female threads in the hub bodies do not start until about 3//8" deep, these could work. Long threaded end into the wheel hub. Part of the larger OD center in wheel hub, the other part fits securely into the lock in hub bolt holes. The short threaded end can take a metal self locking nut, and the OEM center cap should clear. I will have to experiment and see. I might need a slightly different stud, but you can get the idea.

The Nord-Lock washers:







These fancy washer look promising/interesting.

IMO, the Warn stud kit is a waste of money. The included studs would be worse than bolts IMO.

Whenever I pull the front end apart on either my Green Scrambler/Spring Special, I will investigate this some more. I am pretty sure I can find the correct grade/length/thread pitch/fat center section stud on McMaster-Carr.

 

[Spieg]

I just took one of the bolts to the local Hardware Store and matched them up with some manifold studs. Did have to cut a little off one end so they didn't stick out too far. Used locktite in the hub end and added grade8 nuts with lock washers and have been good ever since.

 

[Belizeit]

spankrjs what is this type of stud called when trying to find at McMaster Carr ?

 

[spankrjs]

spankrjs what is this type of stud called when trying to find at McMaster Carr ? View attachment 95532

This is what I bought, but like I mentioned earlier, might not be the best choice:



Ignore the "2", the second group of numbers is the part number I ordered.