82 4bt build
- Thread starter AllxHeart
- Start date
My brother in law arrived and we have been working on his 79 CJ7 with a suped up 350. He drove from Iowa to OKC and it was not a good trip for him. No top, no doors, 4 speed tranny, and TSL Super Swamper boggers for 800 miles. We swapped his rims and tires on to my jeep so he can have a quieter more comfortable ride. We also cleaned up some wiring on his, tightened up his steering box, and did some other tinkering. It's got a lot of power coming from that 350 and it's a lot of fun to drive. I ordered my clutch master and slave cylinder from Tennessee Diesel. I'm really hoping I can install it and have no problems with shifting. I also tore in to the dash and started cleaning up the wiring so I know where everything is at and mostly because I am at a sort of stopping point with waiting on my Hydraulic Clutch assembly. Here are some pics.
- City
- Colorado Springs
- State
- CO
I don't envy you your wiring... Yuk! I can't stand it! haha! Read back a bit and saw your description of being a minimalist. Reminded me of this old PBS special that you will likely enjoy. Really cool to watch even if its a little dry. I actually bought the DVD years back because I could never find it...now here it is on Youtube! Haha! Oh well... Enjoy and the Jeeps are looking great!
http://youtu.be/iYJKd0rkKss
http://youtu.be/iYJKd0rkKss
I'll check it out when I get the chance, thanks!
I got a great score off craiglist last week. A guy was selling a CJ7 Tub, 2 hoods, a grill, all brackets, and the entire heater assembly. I went to look at it and when I asked how much for everything he said, "You can have everything for free. You serve our country you deserve it." I was blown away by the gesture and still can't believe it. He said he bought it a while ago and had a guy do the body work and was not happy with it at all. It did have really horrible weld work and bondo work. I gave the guy my number and told him to call me anytime if he needed any welding done or any help with his current CJ7 build. Here is some pics of the tub.
Looking for bondo.
Found a lot of bondo.
I've only been welding since I started building this jeep and my welds have never even come close to this bad. No pride in this guys work.
My brother has a kevlar tub, fenders, and hood. We are going to fix this up and I'm going to teach my brother how to do body work and weld. Good learning experiance if he doesn't decide to use the tub and we can sell it. He has his jeep for sale on craigslist right now in OKC. It's very clean and he likes it, but it's not exactly what he wants anymore so he posted it for sale. We will see what happens.
Looking for bondo.
Found a lot of bondo.
I've only been welding since I started building this jeep and my welds have never even come close to this bad. No pride in this guys work.
My brother has a kevlar tub, fenders, and hood. We are going to fix this up and I'm going to teach my brother how to do body work and weld. Good learning experiance if he doesn't decide to use the tub and we can sell it. He has his jeep for sale on craigslist right now in OKC. It's very clean and he likes it, but it's not exactly what he wants anymore so he posted it for sale. We will see what happens.
W.R.Buchanan
Legacy Registered User
- City
- Ojai
- State
- CA
Alex? I hadn't seen this build until today. I can't believe someone didn't direct you to www.4BTSWAPS.com. 
It would have saved you countless hours of frustration in finding and sourcing parts and information you needed to complete this repower.
Even Gaducker is over there with a build thread.
It could have, and still will, save you a bunch of frustration because there have been many 4BT swaps into Jeeps done over there. Also it is a good source for parts.
I went thru your build thread and saw some of your trials and tribulations. Virtually all of the questions you had could have been answered easily as they have an archive of hundreds of builds.
To answer some of your questions.
You don't need a waste gated turbo, what you've got will function just fine. Even if you pumped up the HP with a bigger turbo you wouldn't need the waste gate. 105 HP will move that Jeep with authority. 120HP is the highest you can go without an aftercooler. You need the bigger turbo and after cooler to get past 150 hp and above.
At 105 HP the engine has the same torque as a 350 Chev motor. If you get a ride in a mid 90's Dodge 3/4 or 1ton truck with a 6BT in it, you will get an idea of how fast the Jeep will be. Actually the Jeep will be a little faster because it is proportionally lighter than the truck. The 4BT is 105HP and 275 ftlbs of torque and the early 6BT's were 160 hp and 400 ftlb. or 33% more hp and torque with 33% more cylinders. Difference between 4 and 6 works out to 26.66 hp per cylinder in that state of tune.
You will probably twist the rear axles off that AMC rear end quickly so be looking for a Dana 60 or Ford 9" to replace it. You've got the gearing right with the 3.55's. Look for a Dana 44 (IH Scout) for the front, and you'll need Ford hubs if you use a Chev D44 so you can maintain your 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern.
If you must have the larger turbo get one off a 6BT (HY35) and be done with it. You'll have to either make a manifold by cutting the end ports off a 6cyl manifold, or make an adapter plate.
The only other concern I have is with your front steering. I didn't read all the text, but in the pics it appeared that you had the axle rotated back severly to get the steering arms to clear the spring over. This will result in too much caster angle and the thing will steer badly. 4 degrees is the correct amount. The correct spring spacing is 27" CTC, You may have to modify your spring perch to achieve this number.
When I made my Hi Steer arms in 1992 to be used with my spring over conversion to my CJ5 I had to bend the arms upwards, this took a Rosebud torch and a 100 ton hydraulic press. See pic.
Did anyone mention that it would be a good idea to reinforce your frame center section? with the extra weight of the 4BT it will be necessary. There is a guy here called Chief Wahoo who makes a kit that you weld onto your frame. You can always tell a Scrambler that has been used hard as there is a little wrinkle in the body just behind the door. This means the frame is tweaked, Chief's kit will prevent this from happening to your frame.
I will say you started with a nice looking Jeep and when you get the repower done you'll be pretty happy with the result. Guys are getting 31-33 MPG on the highway with the same combination of parts as you have.
If you need any info on using the Cummins motor in a Jeep don't hesitate to ask. I have a build thread here titled "the DeScrambler Project" , and over at 4BTSWAPS.com the entire build is on my thread entitled "Here's the DeScrambler."
Randy
It would have saved you countless hours of frustration in finding and sourcing parts and information you needed to complete this repower.Even Gaducker is over there with a build thread.
It could have, and still will, save you a bunch of frustration because there have been many 4BT swaps into Jeeps done over there. Also it is a good source for parts.
I went thru your build thread and saw some of your trials and tribulations. Virtually all of the questions you had could have been answered easily as they have an archive of hundreds of builds.
To answer some of your questions.
You don't need a waste gated turbo, what you've got will function just fine. Even if you pumped up the HP with a bigger turbo you wouldn't need the waste gate. 105 HP will move that Jeep with authority. 120HP is the highest you can go without an aftercooler. You need the bigger turbo and after cooler to get past 150 hp and above.
At 105 HP the engine has the same torque as a 350 Chev motor. If you get a ride in a mid 90's Dodge 3/4 or 1ton truck with a 6BT in it, you will get an idea of how fast the Jeep will be. Actually the Jeep will be a little faster because it is proportionally lighter than the truck. The 4BT is 105HP and 275 ftlbs of torque and the early 6BT's were 160 hp and 400 ftlb. or 33% more hp and torque with 33% more cylinders. Difference between 4 and 6 works out to 26.66 hp per cylinder in that state of tune.
You will probably twist the rear axles off that AMC rear end quickly so be looking for a Dana 60 or Ford 9" to replace it. You've got the gearing right with the 3.55's. Look for a Dana 44 (IH Scout) for the front, and you'll need Ford hubs if you use a Chev D44 so you can maintain your 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern.
If you must have the larger turbo get one off a 6BT (HY35) and be done with it. You'll have to either make a manifold by cutting the end ports off a 6cyl manifold, or make an adapter plate.
The only other concern I have is with your front steering. I didn't read all the text, but in the pics it appeared that you had the axle rotated back severly to get the steering arms to clear the spring over. This will result in too much caster angle and the thing will steer badly. 4 degrees is the correct amount. The correct spring spacing is 27" CTC, You may have to modify your spring perch to achieve this number.
When I made my Hi Steer arms in 1992 to be used with my spring over conversion to my CJ5 I had to bend the arms upwards, this took a Rosebud torch and a 100 ton hydraulic press. See pic.
Did anyone mention that it would be a good idea to reinforce your frame center section? with the extra weight of the 4BT it will be necessary. There is a guy here called Chief Wahoo who makes a kit that you weld onto your frame. You can always tell a Scrambler that has been used hard as there is a little wrinkle in the body just behind the door. This means the frame is tweaked, Chief's kit will prevent this from happening to your frame.
I will say you started with a nice looking Jeep and when you get the repower done you'll be pretty happy with the result. Guys are getting 31-33 MPG on the highway with the same combination of parts as you have.
If you need any info on using the Cummins motor in a Jeep don't hesitate to ask. I have a build thread here titled "the DeScrambler Project" , and over at 4BTSWAPS.com the entire build is on my thread entitled "Here's the DeScrambler."
Randy
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Roger that, you are correct.
No worries. I know about 4btswaps, but I don't have internet and wanting to have 1 build thread was hard enough for me to want to do. Live and learn... Good thing I'm in the military and get paid enough to make mistakes!!!
Alex? I hadn't seen this build until today. I can't believe someone didn't direct you to www.4BTSWAPS.com.
Even Gaducker is over there with a build thread.
It could have, and still will, save you a bunch of frustration because there have been many 4BT swaps into Jeeps done over there. Also it is a good source for parts.
I went thru your build thread and saw some of your trials and tribulations. Virtually all of the questions you had could have been answered easily as they have an archive of hundreds of builds.
To answer some of your questions.
You don't need a waste gated turbo, what you've got will function just fine. Even if you pumped up the HP with a bigger turbo you wouldn't need the waste gate. 105 HP will move that Jeep with authority. 120HP is the highest you can go without an aftercooler. You need the bigger turbo and after cooler to get past 150 hp and above.
At 105 HP the engine has the same torque as a 350 Chev motor. If you get a ride in a mid 90's Dodge 3/4 or 1ton truck with a 6BT in it, you will get an idea of how fast the Jeep will be. Actually the Jeep will be a little faster because it is proportionally lighter than the truck. The 4BT is 105HP and 275 ftlbs of torque and the early 6BT's were 160 hp and 400 ftlb. or 33% more hp and torque with 33% more cylinders. Difference between 4 and 6 works out to 26.66 hp per cylinder in that state of tune.
You will probably twist the rear axles off that AMC rear end quickly so be looking for a Dana 60 or Ford 9" to replace it. You've got the gearing right with the 3.55's. Look for a Dana 44 (IH Scout) for the front, and you'll need Ford hubs if you use a Chev D44 so you can maintain your 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern.
If you must have the larger turbo get one off a 6BT (HY35) and be done with it. You'll have to either make a manifold by cutting the end ports off a 6cyl manifold, or make an adapter plate.
The only other concern I have is with your front steering. I didn't read all the text, but in the pics it appeared that you had the axle rotated back severly to get the steering arms to clear the spring over. This will result in too much caster angle and the thing will steer badly. 4 degrees is the correct amount. The correct spring spacing is 27" CTC, You may have to modify your spring perch to achieve this number.
When I made my Hi Steer arms in 1992 to be used with my spring over conversion to my CJ5 I had to bend the arms upwards, this took a Rosebud torch and a 100 ton hydraulic press. See pic.
Did anyone mention that it would be a good idea to reinforce your frame center section? with the extra weight of the 4BT it will be necessary. There is a guy here called Chief Wahoo who makes a kit that you weld onto your frame. You can always tell a Scrambler that has been used hard as there is a little wrinkle in the body just behind the door. This means the frame is tweaked, Chief's kit will prevent this from happening to your frame.
I will say you started with a nice looking Jeep and when you get the repower done you'll be pretty happy with the result. Guys are getting 31-33 MPG on the highway with the same combination of parts as you have.
If you need any info on using the Cummins motor in a Jeep don't hesitate to ask. I have a build thread here titled "the DeScrambler Project" , and over at 4BTSWAPS.com the entire build is on my thread entitled "Here's the DeScrambler."
Randy
Thanks for the look through and thanks for the answers and pointing things out. I knew I would run in to a lot of issues with this build and probably right that I would have had less problems if I put the build on 4btswaps.com. I've searched through 4btswaps.com numerous times and have gone through your build a bit here and there. Is it just a built in crossmember? I had plans on welding one in anyway for the anti-wrap bar. Maybe I need more than that? I don't plan on wheeling this thing. I'm more in to overland expedition than rock crawling, mudding, etc.
I'll look in to the caster angle issue. I'd hate to cut the perches and weld new ones, but if it has to be done then it will be done.
thanks again.
I looked at my axle caster angle and compared it to my brothers CJ7 that isn't SOA or high steer and they look to be the samy caster angle. I'm eye balling it, but I don't see it. I guess I'll know when I test drive it. No sense in cutting the perches off just yet. Here are some pics.
We haven't driven the CJ7 for 2 weeks so I took it out for a brisk drive to grab some food, stop at the hardware store, and get some parts at oreillys. I love driving my brothers jeep. It's a lot of fun and all the Ricer cars out there think they are fast and get their minds blown when a jeep beats them. Gotta love American muscle!! I'm still waiting on my Hydraulic clutch setup. I hope it comes in this week.
We haven't driven the CJ7 for 2 weeks so I took it out for a brisk drive to grab some food, stop at the hardware store, and get some parts at oreillys. I love driving my brothers jeep. It's a lot of fun and all the Ricer cars out there think they are fast and get their minds blown when a jeep beats them. Gotta love American muscle!! I'm still waiting on my Hydraulic clutch setup. I hope it comes in this week.
Knocked out a little bit of wiring cleanup, installed hardware, and installed my dash after cutting away excess wiring and cleaning that birds nest up. Painted the dash black as well. Eventually I plan on getting rid of all the chrome in the dash and minimizing.
W.R.Buchanan
Legacy Registered User
- City
- Ojai
- State
- CA
Alex? yes in these pics the caster angle looks more like it should.
As long as your tie rod clears everything lock to lock I think you'll be fine, however I would consider seeing if it will fit into the holes on top of the steering arms instead of the ones on the knuckles. As it sits it is essentially the "Front Bumper" and if you hit something while on expedition it will generate massive "toe in" and ruin your day, probably 50 miles from anywhere..
Since your drag link is nearly horizontal you won't get any bump steer, which is a good thing.
Randy
As long as your tie rod clears everything lock to lock I think you'll be fine, however I would consider seeing if it will fit into the holes on top of the steering arms instead of the ones on the knuckles. As it sits it is essentially the "Front Bumper" and if you hit something while on expedition it will generate massive "toe in" and ruin your day, probably 50 miles from anywhere..
Since your drag link is nearly horizontal you won't get any bump steer, which is a good thing.
Randy
- City
- Colorado Springs
- State
- CO
Just eyeballing the pic it doesn't look like he would have room to mount the drag link on the arms without going to a shorter pitman arm...? Hard to tell but thought I'd throw it out there. 
Sorry for the long overdue update on this. I didn't forget, but I have been very busy. With full time active duty, college, being a crossfit instructor, and training for an upcoming crossfit competition I've had little time to mess with the jeep. I did manage to spend some time on it and when I got the transmission sorted I got a lot more motivation so here is whats been going on.
I got in a master and slave cylinder from tennessee diesel and the new setup worked perfectly. I had to double flare some brake lines and then bled them. I built a bracket for the throttle cable and bought some cable from home depot to make my own throttle cable. I'm working on the bracket right now so I can make adjustments in the throttle cable tension. I have a leak in my fuel pump at the throttle linkage. I have the seal kit ordered so it should be here this week. Now I need to build some radiator hoses and I'll be able to take it down the road. So when this seal kit comes in and I get the radiator hoses built I'll post some pics and show how it's come along.
I got in a master and slave cylinder from tennessee diesel and the new setup worked perfectly. I had to double flare some brake lines and then bled them. I built a bracket for the throttle cable and bought some cable from home depot to make my own throttle cable. I'm working on the bracket right now so I can make adjustments in the throttle cable tension. I have a leak in my fuel pump at the throttle linkage. I have the seal kit ordered so it should be here this week. Now I need to build some radiator hoses and I'll be able to take it down the road. So when this seal kit comes in and I get the radiator hoses built I'll post some pics and show how it's come along.
1 step forward 2 steps back!
Had a fuel leak on the fuel injection pump at the throttle. Had to take off the top and it is easily possible with the pump on the engine. That means no chance of messing up the timing or spending more time doing a simple task. While I had the injection pump off I changed the governor spring to the 3200 rpm one. I bought the seal kit from TNDiesel. 25 bucks for the whole seal kit. I used 3 seals out of it. After I got the pump put back together it started leaking again. This time at the manual shutoff valve. That was really easy to changed. Take the nut off, pull off the lever and then use a scribe to pull out the o-ring.
The green O-ring is what I changed out and the governor spring was easy as well. If you ever change your governor spring, the part it is attached to on the right has a spring as well. I didn't drop it, but it's under a load and could pop out. I just put my finger on it and took the spring off and put the new one on without any issue.
To the left is where it was leaking that started the tear down and the right is where it leaked the second time. Also, I took off the top 4 screws and found the fuel pin needed to be replaced. Luckily there is a place out here that sells parts for the pump.
I bought 2 radiator hoses and 1 flex hose. The flex hose was the wrong size on the engine side so I'll be ordering another one. These pics will show you have I pieced them together. I wanted to make it as clean as possible until I find a better way. I used plumbing parts to adapt the upper hoses and for the lower hose to have resistance to clamp on to. You'll see in the pics.
I'll get a chance to finish the radiator hose this weekend and hopefully get the parts for the fuel pump as well. I'm still hunting down why my ignition wire is constantly powered while the battery is connected. However, I bypassed it for now and use a switch to kill the engine instead of the key.
Check out this JK I saw in Springfield MO. It was bed lined and done very well. It's the best looking bed lined vehicle I've seen.
Had a fuel leak on the fuel injection pump at the throttle. Had to take off the top and it is easily possible with the pump on the engine. That means no chance of messing up the timing or spending more time doing a simple task. While I had the injection pump off I changed the governor spring to the 3200 rpm one. I bought the seal kit from TNDiesel. 25 bucks for the whole seal kit. I used 3 seals out of it. After I got the pump put back together it started leaking again. This time at the manual shutoff valve. That was really easy to changed. Take the nut off, pull off the lever and then use a scribe to pull out the o-ring.
The green O-ring is what I changed out and the governor spring was easy as well. If you ever change your governor spring, the part it is attached to on the right has a spring as well. I didn't drop it, but it's under a load and could pop out. I just put my finger on it and took the spring off and put the new one on without any issue.
To the left is where it was leaking that started the tear down and the right is where it leaked the second time. Also, I took off the top 4 screws and found the fuel pin needed to be replaced. Luckily there is a place out here that sells parts for the pump.
I bought 2 radiator hoses and 1 flex hose. The flex hose was the wrong size on the engine side so I'll be ordering another one. These pics will show you have I pieced them together. I wanted to make it as clean as possible until I find a better way. I used plumbing parts to adapt the upper hoses and for the lower hose to have resistance to clamp on to. You'll see in the pics.
I'll get a chance to finish the radiator hose this weekend and hopefully get the parts for the fuel pump as well. I'm still hunting down why my ignition wire is constantly powered while the battery is connected. However, I bypassed it for now and use a switch to kill the engine instead of the key.
Check out this JK I saw in Springfield MO. It was bed lined and done very well. It's the best looking bed lined vehicle I've seen.
Built a new clutch mount bracket. Still in the mocking up phase to get the throw right. I really thought I'd have a good christmas and driving my jeep but of course nothing works as planned when it comes to projects.
So the previous owner used a painless wiring kit, but has both the inner and outer firewall fuse block/wiring block in the inside of the jeep which would be nice if it wasn't in such a hard position to get to. This painless kit is being a pain in my 4$$.
Since I have very little needed in my jeep I am strongly considering doing a rock crawler style dash switch kit. Get rid of the old stock stuff and use something simplified. 12voltguy has a sweet kit.
I can use the switch positions for electric fan, fuel shutoff solenoid, lights, heater blower, etc. The jeep itself is very simple so I don't see why I can keep it that way. This rats nest has to go. I'm moving to a house soon so I'll finally have my own garage and I'll tear down the jeep. Right now we are just trying to get everything running, but the wiring will bother me until I know how everything is supposed to be. Oh the woes of other peoples setups.
Has anyone had any experience with complete re-wiring or know of any threads? Just trying to gather up as much info as possible.
Merry Christmas to everyone and hope you got some jeep goodies!
So the previous owner used a painless wiring kit, but has both the inner and outer firewall fuse block/wiring block in the inside of the jeep which would be nice if it wasn't in such a hard position to get to. This painless kit is being a pain in my 4$$.
Since I have very little needed in my jeep I am strongly considering doing a rock crawler style dash switch kit. Get rid of the old stock stuff and use something simplified. 12voltguy has a sweet kit.
I can use the switch positions for electric fan, fuel shutoff solenoid, lights, heater blower, etc. The jeep itself is very simple so I don't see why I can keep it that way. This rats nest has to go. I'm moving to a house soon so I'll finally have my own garage and I'll tear down the jeep. Right now we are just trying to get everything running, but the wiring will bother me until I know how everything is supposed to be. Oh the woes of other peoples setups.
Has anyone had any experience with complete re-wiring or know of any threads? Just trying to gather up as much info as possible.
Merry Christmas to everyone and hope you got some jeep goodies!