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Butters - Jeff's 81 Scrambler Build Thread

Well, nothing's ever easy on these things! Sounds like a short to ground in the fuel gauge. That's easy to check, I'd go through the process but it sounds like your guy is already on it.

The fulcrum is on the top on mine.
 
Ok, so I finally got the Jeep out of the shop. I took it to Tar Heel 4WD here in Charlotte and left it in the capable hands of Andy for some rewiring and then asked him to keep going. He was patient, I was patient, and we worked through the many technical issues together.

1) rewired with new harness - now my tail lights work!!!
2) install the Speed Hut gauges (work great!!!) I might have gone short sweep had I to do it over again.
3) install a new radiator fan (also works great)
4) install new brake proportioning valve - this would have been a nightmare in my driveway...totally glad he did it and not me
5) Fuel tank cleaning and new sender - this is probably the most interesting one -
a) carefully removing the unspent shotgun shells lodged around the gas tank and between the skid (whaaa???)
b) removed gas tank and cleaned it out (was nasty with rust)
c) sending unit was toast and partly what had rusted
d) sealed the gas tank with a nifty chemical stuff - this took about 5 days of not doing too much, just waiting
e) installing a new sending unit​
6) fixed leaking rear end and refilled with new fluid

After all of this I took it to the GoodYear dealer who was having a hell of a sale on 32X11.50 MTR's and had them mounted and I drove it home.

Unfortunately on the way home I discovered the tires rubbed when I turned left and the headlights still were pretty awful.

So, I put in some TruckLights LED headlights (totally worth it) and spacers on all 4 corners which fixed my rubbing issues.

Many of you have provided me excellent advice on engines and swaps and so forth and I appreciate every second of it and all the time on the phone and the hopeful but not working out possible sales of engines and so forth. Thank you all! I may still need an engine, but once Andy got the electrical working the engine really runs well! I think ultimately it was my horrible electrical job in summer 2013 that really hosed up my engine performance.

Now, on Wednesday I take it to a mechanic to get the following done:
1) swap the timing gears for a timing chain - I have not SEEN the gears, but if you take off all the betls it still sounds like there is not enough power steering fluid in the PS can and of course there are no belts so it can't be that. So, I am hoping it is gears instead of main bearing or something. Either way, I'll know later this week.
2) Do some simple tests to determine if new valve seals will improve my smoking issue. The oil pools in the cylinders, so I am assuming it is coming from somewhere (above, through the seals) and not going anywhere down such as past the rings. - hopefully it is just in need of new valve seals
3) determine if I need a new carb due to wallowed out butter fly valve shaft.

After that, it should be awesome!

So, after all that, today I took it out on a short trail near town to try to take a picture out in the dirt. It was more than I bargained for but it worked out OK; I even got to put it in 4WD! In fact, after my romp through the woods and down rutted trails and huge muddy watery troughs, once I got back on the road the whole Jeep seemed much quieter without all the clunks and clanks and shudders it used to have. Fairly quite actually! Maybe it just needed some rust and dust knocked off and things moving around again!!!




 
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Lukas has also gotten into the spirit tonight.



 
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Ok, so the engine is back in the Jeep and Jamie is doing some fine tuning. We took the old block and stuffed it with 383 components to mimic the current GM Performance offering for a 383 truck motor, but with roller lifters and a Q-Jet. I hope to get it back this weekend coming up. Very Excited! Not a current gen motor, but is more what I had in mind when I started this project. I like muscle cars and hot rods and this is about as close as I'll get to those, warts and all.





 
What I am fighting today:

Two years ago(?!?!?) when I came up to the Sand Blast event, a few of you pointed out that my ride was smoking and you were not wrong! In fact, I had F'ed the timing up something fierce and just hadn't realized it yet. So, I've been working on that and have some questions.

Here is the situation again: Gen 1 SBC stroked to a 383. Vortec heads. Holley 750 carb (yes, I know it's too big, but it is what I have at the moment), MSD Street Fire HEI.
Timing is currently set to 32 degrees advance.

My issue is that I have a misfire. I say this because all of my spark plugs look fabulous except for #8, which is fuel fowled.

Here is what I've done to try to diagnose the issue:
1) Checked spark with a spark tester - PASS. All cylinders check with spark at a pretty good gap; far greater than a spark plug could be gapped.
2) Pulled the valve cover and all "looks" normal, and no excessive lash in the rockers. I have not pulled the head though.
3) With the engine running, I pulled the #8 wire from the distributor and the engine didn't miss a beat. I put it back and pulled #6 and the engine chugged. I put it back and pulled #3 and the engine chugged. I put it back and pulled #8 again and the engine didn't miss a beat.
4) With the spark plug tester, I tested at the distributor - #8 has spark.
5) I swapped the #6 and #8 wires and did the "pull" test and the same results. #8, with the #6 wire, when pulled, the engine didn't miss a beat. I put it back on, pulled the #6 wire and the engine chugged.
6) I had put on a new distributor cap last summer as I have been fighting this issue for years. I pulled the cap to inspect it and found no weirdness. The spark is hitting in the center of all 8 of the pickups in the cap and there doesn't appear to be a difference between any of the pickups impact points, even on #8.
7) While I had the cap off, I cleaned off the pickups with some light filing and when I put it back on and started it up, it ran really smooth for about a minute even after a rev or two. Then, it was back to its tricks of being a little rough, a little spitty and a tiny bit of back talk from the tailpipe when coming down off of a throttle goose.

So, I'm stumped.

I'm of two minds and would like your opinion:
Option 1: Swap in a new MSD Billet and 6A control box and see if that fixes it. - this is the $900 option
Option 2: Pull the head and see what is going on with the valves such as something sticking the intake valve open a bit letting stuff through that is fowling the plug. (this is a wild ass guess...I have no idea if that is even realistic)
Option 3: Take it to a shop and let a mechanic tinker with it.

Anyone have any idea what the heck I should do next? Thanks in advance!
 
Have you done a compression test on #8? I would test some compression as it looks like you just have one cylinder misbehaving.
 
Have you done a compression test on #8? I would test some compression as it looks like you just have one cylinder misbehaving.
Yep, I did a compression test on all 8 cylinders and they all read out at 180PSI and didn't fall over the short time I had the cylinder pumped up.
 
Bent push rod on either/both intake/exhaust valve on #8. Valves will stay shut with bad pushrod(s) and give good compression reading BUT valve(s) will not open leading to miss fire :shrug:

Easy enough to pull valve cover and pull/check the two push rods. I had this happen before, especially if timing was way out AND you had a back fire.
 
Bent push rod on either/both intake/exhaust valve on #8. Valves will stay shut with bad pushrod(s) and give good compression reading BUT valve(s) will not open leading to miss fire :shrug:

Easy enough to pull valve cover and pull/check the two push rods. I had this happen before, especially if timing was way out AND you had a back fire.
I'll check that! Thanks!
 
Ok, so work on the intake gasket is progressing.

I removed the intake and found that the gaskets that were used were not the composite gaskets I imagined, but were actually plastic over metal.

Part I am replacing: Chevy Performance 89017465

I am putting on the gaskets from the FEL-PRO MS 98000 T which has an intake gasket set that has been recommended by numerous people online to fix the Edelbrock to Vortec head gasket issue. I'll keep posting to this to let you know how this goes.

1) Here is a comparison of the two gaskets
2) The gasket as it came off the engine stuck to the intake
3) The passenger side of the block, before I dried, stuffed holes, covered the valley and then cleaned all the crud out. I swear I keep the hood shut, but stuff gets in there anyway!
4) and the HEI I am replacing with a distro with an external coil. The big HEI has always hit the firewall and I kept meaning to change it out. Now is the perfect time I guess.

Old and New Gaskets.pngoldGasket on #8 side.pngPassSideBlock - #8.pngDistro-2Big.png

More info to come over this coming weekend. Any feedback is always appreciated.
 
Here is the new gasket on the head and on the intake. The gasket, as mounted on the head, has little nubs that fit into holes in the head to put the gasket in the correct position. The gasket doesn't pass the edge of the intake port center section, but it is right on the edge. Sure is a lot of room on the outside of those ports though!!!!

First pic - Cyl 2 / 4
Second pic - Cyl 6 / 8
Third pic - Intake gasket fit.

Intake to heads 2.jpgIntake to Heads.jpgIntake to heads 3.jpg
 
To me, those gaskets look a bit big for the port sizes on both the intake and heads.
I agree, there is a LOT of room on the outside of each port.

Here is a screenshot of a Fel-Pro 1255. As you can see, the ports are canted just like the heads ports are. This looks like a much better fit, though it is a composite gasket. Summit has good ratings for it.

As you can see, the old gaskets were truly a rectangle instead of somewhat canted like the actual head ports.
HeadPorts.pngFel-Pro1255.png
So, I was looking through the documentation of the build on my engine. My intake is an Edelbrock Performer for Vortec, PN 21163 and in the instructions I see it calls for a specific gasket - Edelbrock #7235 Port: 1.08” x 2.11”, .120” Thickness. The Fel-Pro 1255 also has those same specs, 2.110 in. x 1.08 in. Port, .120 in. Thick. Both of these gaskets look identical and have the "canted" ports, or ports that are not straight up and down.

But, that is not what I found on my engine when I pulled the gasket. I found instead is what appears to be a Mahle MS16167 gasket which is hard plastic and has large rectangular ports that are straight up and down, which are MUCH larger than the ports on my heads.

I am hoping he had a good reason at the time for the swap, but heck if I know. I'll post and update when I pick up the Fel-Pro 1255 gaskets today.
 
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Ok, so here are the Fel-Pro 1255 / Edelbrock 7235 gaskets on the Chevy Performance Vortec heads and the Edelbrock manifold. As you can see, this is a MUCH closer fit than the other gaskets. Oddly, these two gaskets are identical and both are composite and the only gaskets I could find that were shaped like this.

Fel1255-HeadFit2.jpgFel1255-HeadFit.jpgFel1255-ManifoldFit.jpg
 
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