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Car and Driver: New Jeep models

spankrjs said:
Just my opinion, but I will never buy another new Jeep product, they all suck:shrug:


I would love to be able to go to the dealership and buy a new, basic, simple, nice, reliable, Jeep Cherokee Classic. But I know that will never happen again:banghead:

Grand Cherokees are too big, too expensive, IFS :angry:

Liberties, Patriots, Compasses, well, I am sure you can guess how I feel about those:evil:
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I am of the same opinion and seem to be in the same boat as Randyzzz. The Wife and I are looking at a new Sport Utility for her since we have our first little one on the way(she has a civic now). She has said, I don't want a Mom car, I want something cool. WELL THERE IS NOTHING COOL OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! GC is too big, JK Unlimited is close but why is it 40,000 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually like the styling of the current boxy Liberty because it is the closest thing to the XJ Cherokee.

I have been entertaining spending 7-8 grand on a lightly used XJ with about 75,000 miles on it because it is the only thing I like. I just don't want to trade a 10 year old car(civic) for a 12-14 year old car for my wife.

And why do the MPG's suck on Jeeps. The liberty gets less than my 2004 Subaru STI, and the STI has 350 hp and 385 ft/lbs of torque!



I was just daydreaming last night of a company making a "Basic Off Road Vehicle." That costs no more than 15 grand and is really not much more than a highly customizable chassis, body and efficient yet strong drivetrain. Save the techno whiz-bang stuff. Make it affordable and let people customize it as they want. I don't know if Jeep is watching but NO 2 JEEPS ARE THE SAME. People lop stuff off of them and add aftermarket on constantly. Make an inexpensive "enthusiast" version. New Rubicon's are cool, but I will save my 40 grand for a bachelors degree for my kid.
 
53D Scrambler said:
I am of the same opinion and seem to be in the same boat as Randyzzz. The Wife and I are looking at a new Sport Utility for her since we have our first little one on the way(she has a civic now). She has said, I don't want a Mom car, I want something cool. WELL THERE IS NOTHING COOL OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! GC is too big, JK Unlimited is close but why is it 40,000 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually like the styling of the current boxy Liberty because it is the closest thing to the XJ Cherokee.

I have been entertaining spending 7-8 grand on a lightly used XJ with about 75,000 miles on it because it is the only thing I like. I just don't want to trade a 10 year old car(civic) for a 12-14 year old car for my wife.

And why do the MPG's suck on Jeeps. The liberty gets less than my 2004 Subaru STI, and the STI has 350 hp and 385 ft/lbs of torque!



I was just daydreaming last night of a company making a "Basic Off Road Vehicle." That costs no more than 15 grand and is really not much more than a highly customizable chassis, body and efficient yet strong drivetrain. Save the techno whiz-bang stuff. Make it affordable and let people customize it as they want. I don't know if Jeep is watching but NO 2 JEEPS ARE THE SAME. People lop stuff off of them and add aftermarket on constantly. Make an inexpensive "enthusiast" version. New Rubicon's are cool, but I will save my 40 grand for a bachelors degree for my kid.
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Remember back about 5-10 years when XJ's were dirt cheap? The one we just found was $6500 and we had to travel about 6 hours each way to get it. There are ton of 200k milers that are beat, and they still want 3K plus for them! Crazy thing is, unless we called within a day of it hitting Craigslist, it was sold! Even the 10K 2001 with 128k miles at a Jeep dealership!!!

There's a company that is sort of following your idea- "Icon". Only they are building high end vehicles, 100Kish...and they're selling!

I had looked into producing repop Jeeps and figured you would have to be able to sell them for $40k minimum to make a living...but I bet after building one that jumps to 50k or more. And that's bare aluminum body, no paint, no frills. If you do the math, a basic Unlimited isn't all that bad a deal, it just irks me to have to pay for a worthless powertrain.
 
After seeing an article online this morning about "most fuel efficient all-wheel drive vehicles" (what a coincidence, since I was looking Sunday), I selected the most probable candidate to be either the 2013 Ford Escape or Mini Countryman. Although, I know that I'll likely NOT purchase either one. I suppose that I'd rather drive one of my Jeeps daily for 6 months while having my 1997 Ford F-Series completely rebuilt.

I cannot understand why US corps are not offering DIESEL options and, at a minimum, manual transmissions!!!!!!!!!!
 
Markness & Randy,

Not to get way off topic here... But tell me more about 97 F250 & 350's.

Are they 7.3 turbo diesel?
Guess 97 is last year of the classic Ford looking front grill?

I had a 90's Ford flare side with 33". Red/ red interior, pair 10" subs behind seat. Loved the looks of truck, but it was gas and only had 15 gallon tank.

Been thinking about a DD to put miles on & tow Jeeps.
Too hard to get wife out of Excursion.

I too don't like ANY of the new vehicles offered.
 
97 was the last year of the non "Super Duty" Ford Pickup. Had the 7.3 Powerstroke, but still looked like a Ford. I agree, the best year out there. Hard to find in nice shape, and they bring a premium price. Actually the 7.3 Powerstroke was introduced in the end of the 1994 model year- so probably anything nice in 1995-1997 would be a keeper.

The Super Duty body style with the 7.3 PS was available from 1999-2003. It went to an elec fuel pump and intercooler. Also a good choice if you don't mind the body.

Avoid the 6.0 like the plague...
 
red mistress said:
...tell me more about 97 F250 & 350's.

Are they 7.3 turbo diesel? YES & Direct Injection
Guess 97 is last year of the classic Ford looking front grill? YES
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F350 has solid front axle, available crew cab w/ 8' box; F250 has twin-beam front and short box in crew. Standard and extended cabs available with SWB or LWB in both 250 and 350.

Options include manual or auto hubs; XL or XLT trim; 3.53(maybe it was 3.73?) or 4.10 axles w/ or w/o LS; ZF5 speed manual or auto tranny; steel w/ caps or aluminum styled wheels; grey, tan or blue (also maybe red) interior cloth and vinyl for XL; a handful of exterior colors in solid or two-tone; solid or split rear cab window; bench seat or 40/60 bench w/ center folding console; two side mirror styles; twin fuel tanks w/ about 40 gallons total.

That's all I can think about off the top of my head. I did keep the original spec book and I'll dig around for it, if you'd like to know more specs.

I ordered the truck in about October of 1996 and received it in March of 1997. It's a '97 F350 Crew LWB PSTD in Hunter Green. Back in that day, a person could order options individually and there weren't "packages", so I set up this truck exactly how I wanted it. 4.10 w/ LS, manual hubs, 5-speed, split window, cab lights, etc.

Some things I learned prior to ordering, and since owning, that would be helpful to potential buyers are as follows.
1. Auto trannys are a weak link, and most trucks with over 150K miles have had them rebuilt. My manual remains strong at 320K+.
2. Electric hubs are weak and prone to blowing-up (based upon replies from some of my customers). My manaul hubs remain bulletproof.
3. Manual trans includes a "Dual-Mass" flywheel that is spring-loaded. Springs wear out after 125-150K and require replacement flywheel (mine was at 125K -no problems with replacement; some guys have put in single-mass replacements with stiffer shifts being the result).
4. Recalls: Aluminum wheel rear polished caps that would fall off (new caps issued); speed control relay that could cause a fire (5 minute swap out).
5. Manual tranny has a "dead zone" between 3-4 gear when pulling heavy loads up very steep inclines (I think this was the reason for the ZF6 made available in the '99 model).

In summary, I think I've got an excellent truck. I've replaced the alternator 2-3 times, and glow plug relay about 3 times. Glow plug wiring harness, fuel pump, vacuum pump, PS hose, batteries all replaced once. My truck remains bone stock. The only options I wish were available at the time are leather seating and a true overdrive in the manual tranny. My mpg has always been consistent at 19.5-20 if I keep it under 65mph, until a recent trip (haven't yet fully assessed the issue). Also, since ULSD fuel became the norm, I include additives at fuel-ups to lube the injectors. 320K+ miles and it honestly still feels like it runs just as it did with 10 miles on the OD as I drove it off the lot in 1997. I wish I had bought two at the time. :)

Now, don't go driving up the prices on good used '97 F350 crew cabs!
 
Chinese Super Cherokee - This is what happens when you mate a Cherokee with a Land Rover Disco.
 
Randyzzz said:
We were actually going back and forth between a payment on a 2013 Unlimited, with the full warranty,
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Last year, I was in the market for a mid/large SUV. Had to have a V8, etc. I came very close to buying a new GC with a V8. Glad I didn't. Despite all the bullshit from Chrysler about how they're not building great vehicles... reliability has been "well below average". For the Wrangler, a similar story: The 2-door is average, the Unlimited is "Well below average".

I don't care what Consumer Reports says about subjective topics, e.g. comfort, visibility, etc. (they hated the FJ Cruiser, I bought one and loved it). But with reliability - it's pure data. They're just aggregating repairs costs and frequency relative to the competing vehicles. And Jeeps ALWAYS perform like crap in that category. The current GC did as well as any of them have - and actually got good marks for the 6 cyl version. But the V8 did not do well. I feel like I dodged a bullet with that one.

I gave up on new Jeeps (again) and went with the proven...
forum

... pretty sad when a used Toyota beats anything new out of Detroit
 
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Very nice! I love Toyotas. I will be in the market for a new pick up soon to replace my VW Rabbit. I am waiting (hoping) for VW to release their pickup to the Canadian market. Its the VW Amarok. I'd get a 4 door, TDI with 6 speed manual. Unfortunately for me, Toyota doesnt have a diesel pickup in Canada either. If they brought over the Hilux Diesel, I'd have a decision to make. But accourding to Toyota Canada, they are not even considering it, VW Canada, on the other had , is considering bring the Amarok to Canada.

I prefer the look of the VW...

VWAmarok_zpsd389cfed-1.jpg



2012toyotahilux_zpsff5807d5-1.jpg
 
Bad Karma said:
Unfortunately for me, Toyota doesnt have a diesel pickup in Canada either. If they brought over the Hilux Diesel, I'd have a decision to make. But accourding to Toyota Canada, they are not even considering it, VW Canada, on the other had , is considering bring the Amarok to Canada.
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It really sucks that N. America (mostly the US) is so into the plush, fluffy SUVs. Hell, S.E. Toyota takes the already plush Land Cruiser and adds stick-on fender "garnishes". Geez... I wish US buyers would let trucks be trucks and stop fearing the station wagon. 95% of SUVs on the road could be replaced with minivans or station wagons that cost much less, handle better and get better gas mileage. The only upside is that these insecure SUV drivers (afraid to be seen in a minivan/station wagon) do allow the rest of us to buy some nice used trucks ;-)

I just wish we could get our hands on the stuff that never makes it the US. Like these - 2013 Land Cruisers (70 Series):
70dc-1.jpg

103805_toyota_landcruiser_70_series_2000-1.jpg
 
I love wagons. I was looking to get a nice Audi wagon, but we can't get the manual transmissions in this country. Not enough demand to warrant shipping them here.
 
Manhattan said:
It really sucks that N. America (mostly the US) is so into the plush, fluffy SUVs. Hell, S.E. Toyota takes the already plush Land Cruiser and adds stick-on fender "garnishes". Geez... I wish US buyers would let trucks be trucks and stop fearing the station wagon. 95% of SUVs on the road could be replaced with minivans or station wagons that cost much less, handle better and get better gas mileage. The only upside is that these insecure SUV drivers (afraid to be seen in a minivan/station wagon) do allow the rest of us to buy some nice used trucks ;-)

I just wish we could get our hands on the stuff that never makes it the US. Like these - 2013 Land Cruisers (70 Series):
70dc-1.jpg

103805_toyota_landcruiser_70_series_2000-1.jpg
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WOW!!!

Now that is what I am talking about!!!!! Simple but new and reliable. I would buy one of those in an isntant!
 
Hate to mention another foreign car, but my 2012 outback handles great, gets decent mileage and with the v6, it's dead zippy. Of course we don't need
 
Damn blew my first tapatalk post!!!! Was also going to mention the good ground clearance and that we don't need that much space any more now that the kids are grown
 
cdvcj8 said:
Damn blew my first tapatalk post!!!! Was also going to mention the good ground clearance and that we don't need that much space any more now that the kids are grown
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No need to appologize for the Subi mention. I have an 04 STi that has been the best car I have ever had!
 
I had an 03 WRX. One of my favorite cars ever. Drove great, bulletproof and fun!
 
gr8dain said:
I love wagons. I was looking to get a nice Audi wagon, but we can't get the manual transmissions in this country. Not enough demand to warrant shipping them here.
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My 02 Avant has 6MT and factory sport suspension, I routinely see B6/7 Avants with the same for sale here in CO

kaznewcar3.jpg
 
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