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Expedition Scrambler..?

R&r...

rest from the Romanian...lol! Taking tonight to do laundry and get me stuff done so the weekend doesn't sneak up on me so I thought I'd try and re-cap Monday's progress.
As mentioned, the back of the motor had begun to surface rust due to the wet winter here and the Jeep being outside waiting. That got a cursory cleaning and a coat of paint prior to the backing plate being re-installed. Then a quick scrub at the flywheel and zip... it was back in place. Got the new pilot bushing put in after a little effort with a large socket and hammer. The old one fit deeper into the crank where as this one fits more on the end. I had let the bushing soak in oil since I got it so that should be good. Next up was the disc and pressure plate. I almost went a little nuts when I couldn't find one of the odd bolts that holds it to the flywheel. I "thought" I had moved them all under the jeep prior to starting but I couldn't find the last one. I wasted about 40 minutes looking high and low only to discover it had rolled under some other tools and stuff under the jeep next to me.:banghead: Oh well...Then it was bellhousing/adapter time! Got the fork and boot etc all re-installed and the bell went in with no fuss. Things going so smooth it almost seemed a lil scary. I took a few minutes to scarf down some lunch before moving on to the main event...lifting and fighting what is now known to me as Leviathan! That 200lb freshly painted and still tacky monster of a tranny! Holy crap that thing is a monster! :eek: But with the borrowed help of a guy next to me we wrestled it onto a floor jack style tranny jack and carefully wheeled it over to see if it would fit under the 8. It didn't...SO close...but not quite. So I pulled off the shifter assembely (just the top part not the entire cover) and while I guided it under, my helper rocked the jeep towards the drivers side. Thank goodness for supple suspention! It had enough give to allow it to flex the frame up and the jack to go under. Then I began eyeballing it and quickly realized the exhaust was going to be VERY in the way! :( A quick decision and out came the saw-zall...a few hanger bolts later and all was ready to start the lift and fight! Funny thing about jacks like that... they almost always don't allow you to lower what you need enough to get it under... then they rarely lift high enough to reach what you need it to! :crazy: I could just get the input shaft into the throw out bearing and that was about as high as things would go. Long story short...it took ratchet straps, longer bolts, and me using both feet to rock and push to finally get it close then suddenly...
Bink! It slipped tight in home!!!! :drool::woot: Amazing how you can fight and cuse and nothing helps and then all of a sudden its in!! It did take us finding a fine thread bolt to insert into the out put shaft so it could be turned while I had my feet on the back doing my thing... but by the end of the day it is finally in!!!! PHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank goodness!!!!!
I've been trying to use UPS's tracker to see when the rest of my parts will arrive but I'm stuck. I guess its due in part to me having to use an APO address which I believe routes through New Jersey? All that shows on UPS's site is it getting from Canada to CA and being processed on the 28th through there? So if it arrives by this weekend I will be further along. If not I still have a lot I can work on until then. Need to install the hydraulic master in the fire wall and the slave to the bell. The starter needs to be put back in. I will have to make a new, custom transmission tunnel cover to account for the new hole location of the shifter. Plus finish cleaning and painting the t-case. May even get to cutting and cleaning up the driveshaft enough to allow me to make it a temp to move the jeep around short term.?. Basically just in and out of the shop at ultra low speed. I'll look locally for a drive shaft shop but may have to call Tom Woods or someone... More waiting for parts then. :(
That's about the extent of things as the are now. I will just stay frosty until I have more time to do stuff.
As a side note, that pitman arm I asked about won't work. Its drilled/tapered the correct way and would fit the steering box shaft and TRE but its to "long" and would hit the tie rod that goes knuckle to knuckle. I still need to order new ball joints and brake lines so that may get put into the order as well...
Ok... off to relax and do laundry. Hope all are having fun! Yea Expo Jeep... moving along.!.:thumbsup:
 
Yippieeeee........

Got a package today and lookie what came! Most of this is associated with the reverse shifting for the dana 300. The large foot is for mounting obviously and I'm not sure how that will work out yet. The biggest thing I was waiting for is the input shaft for the black box! Should be a fairly easy swap that will allow the BB to fit onto the NV4500. I took it down to the shop after work to make sure it works...just in case. It does...slips right on there! Sweet!!!
Seems I have been strong armed into helping the vixen move furniture on Sunday but thats fine... I will (hopefully) be able to wrench Sat and make more progress! dang I'm stoked!
 
helloooooo...

Thanks Randy...
I think if it were not for you I'd think I was just writing this thread for my own amusement. LOL!
 
I'm sure there are a lot of folks watching the progress-
 
I'm hear too, looking good !!
That's some Heavy duty parts your putting in there, I am way to cheap to spring for the "good" stuff!! Keep up the good work !!!
We will all try to drop a comment in there for ya to help keep you motivated !!!!!
 
Great day....NOT!

Thanks for all the feedback guys...Nice knowing there are others sharing the experience.
Today was a complete failure and let down though it didn't start that way. I had high hopes of making great progress only to be stopped in my tracks once again.
I started by swapping the input on the black box...that went fairly well with only a few moments of head scratching. Then it was on to putting it into the Jeep...which is kinda where it all started. The box gives you multiple options as to where to where to place the studs to mount it. I tried in the middle and that wasn't any good...then spent about an hour putting it in, moving studs, trying again...repeat... Finally got it where it would at least mount up but thought the shifter arm was supposed to be on the passenger side. It was on the drivers side for me. So using the cell to upload the directions I discovered that the only ones on their site using my style of box was being mounted to an NP205! :( And their newer "i" model is a completely different animal. So I pushed on while guessing and finally figured out that the ring the studs mount to needed to be rotated. Took a while to learn that it all should have been marked on the outside so I could reference it when I went to put the bolts back in. Got that all done and then went to work on the t-case. Got out the angle grinder and lopped off the factory shifter mount and cleaned it up a little. The shifter set up I'm running is a reverse one...that gives me more room to run the longer cables (no binding) and doesn't force me to try and squeeze shifter stuff in next to the huge transmission. All that seemed to go ok too...no big rush and looks like it will work. But then came the big stopper. After resting the t-case on my stomach and sliding under the jeep... I couldn't get it to mount on the back of the tranny! I lifted it up and it slid partially on but left a huge gap. I then had one of those "DOH!" moments where I realized the mounting foot was supposed to go on there too! :banghead: So back off it came and the foot put in place and then the case is pressed back up...fun. Well... push as I may...it would not seat. Not even close! Even with the foot in place there is still a solid 3/8-1/2" gap between the two!! Pushing, kicking...and cussing did me no good so back out it came. Then back out came the box so I could try and assemble it all on the bench and maybe see what I was missing. Worse case I thought I'd use a jack to lift it all and that would be that. Well... somehow despite all the talking and emails between me and the NWF guy....something got missed. The splines on the t-case mesh correctly and the seal is a good fit. What does NOT fit is the bearing retainer! When you go to slide it together the end of the retainer bottoms out inside the box. No way to fix or grind or remove that which would work so I am positive I am in need of a spacer of some variety. You would think the NWF guys would have known this since I've shown them pics of everything I am working with and have talked and emailed them many times. We even had to double check to make sure the mounting foot was included since he said it was needed to space the t-case...well...***? It obviously helps but since its only about 3/8ths thick...
So here I am...once again stopped in my tracks. Won't hear from them until Monday night here (at best) and then what...? Oh yeah... you need "X" to make it work...sorry! Please send more money and wait a few more weeks.:angry:
And to add insult to injury I had the shop worker guy come and say I need to pay my bill. Well...ok? Why is that a big deal? He says because it is over 400 dollars...:eek: Since the jeep has been inside for a little over a week he wanted to make sure I understood. I do...but there was something very wrong with his math. We get charged different rates depending on if we are using a bay with a lift or just a flat one. I chose the flat one since i knew I'd be in there a little while and didn't need the lift. Its cheaper and I didn't think it that big a deal. Well...he was trying to charge me for a lift bay as well as for the two Sundays the Jeep was in there that the shop is closed. After a while talking to him we figured out what the problem was...and yet even still my bill is 300 bucks. Hows that for storage fees? What makes it better (no including not getting all the parts) is that I really have no way to move it in and out...ever pushed a 35 shod jeep alone? And they are not really willing to help so my best option is to leave it inside and work on it when I can. But die to their lousy hours that means really only on Saturday. I've tried to scoot by there after work if I get released early enough but that rarely happens. And if it does the best i can hope for is an hour-hour and a half of tinkering. Not counting the time to pull out the tools and put them all away...sigh. All I want at this point is to get it to move under its own power so I can not be shackled to the shop being charged out the booty.
On a fun note I did get the starter installed and fired it up just to hear the straight pipes...
:thumbsup: Sure sounds good without all that muffler stuff...lol! Speaking of which...I don't remember if I mentioned that the one that was in it is pretty clogged up. Not sure if it was the cat or the muffler itself but you can hear what sounds like crap banging around inside when you shake it. Need to look into one of those pre bent DIY "kits" and see about fabbing up an exhaust.
I also got to looking at the place where the hydraulic master cylinder is supposed to mount to the fire wall...uh....Help? That's not going to be easy to do...? Looks like I will have to pull the pedal assembly and the entire booster assembly too. Drill out the place where the MC looks like it was supposed to go (while hoping it clears the booster!) and maybe re-work the pedal mount. Sure looks like the bracket inside that the pedals hang from is right on where the MC will come through... Guess nothing is going to be easy on this one.
And lastly... just to make the weekend complete...I don't foresee any more Romanian vixen pictures coming. Sorry Karma.... but I think that road has taken another path. Guess I'll go back to "hunting" while I'm waiting on the next round of jeep parts... :(
 
Watching closely as I may want to do the same NV4500 & NFW Blackbox setup myself when I get to that stage of my Scrambler project.
 
Just stuck...

I spent a little while in the shop yesterday but don't really have anything interesting to report. I was a lil hung over so I just did a lot of head scratching and looking for a way to solve the t-case to black box fitment issue. It's not looking very promising right now as far as numbers go so I will have to look at other options. The NWF clocking ring is supposed to be in the mail but I don't think it will make any difference, its just not thick enough even combined with the AA mounting foot. And I really don't like the idea of additional sealing surfaces and hunting down longer studs to assemble. I agree that all that has to cause more weakness even if it is marginal. I'm going to contact AA and see if I can get some info on their Dana 300 input bearing retainer kit for the NV4500. The info on their site is very limited but I have to wonder that maybe this is the actual culprit!?! Shorter retainer would be the way to go IMHO and would delete the need for the clocking ring. But I need to find out the length/depth of their new retainer before shelling out the 100+ bucks and waiting for shipping. I'm holding off on my last option of trying to find someone local that can machine a custom adapter to solve this as I really feel the input is the issue. There has to be a way around this! What I don't get is how NWF has/didn't have this issue when they did theirs?
For now I have just rolled the heep out of the bay since its getting way to expensive to leave in there. Spring seems to be a small threat on the horizon here so hopefully I won't have to suffer to much more of the cold or white stuff. There is of course more other stuff I could be working on but I've kinda hit the motivation wall for a bit....I'll update when I make some more progress...
 
Wait, so what did NWF say was the issue? Not having the clocking ring in there?
 
NFW or ***?

BW, NWF doesn't have an idea. I posted the reply they sent me earlier (either here or on the Dana300 retainer thread?) and it was short. On their site it shows the rounder retainer being used but that is only on their "i" box.
I am really a bit stumped as to how this worked out but hoping for a resolution. I emailed AA and may hear back by Monday night my time. I'm really hoping their new retainer and bearing kit will fix this but I will know when they send me some info. What a pain in the butt.
 
On like Donkey Kong!..

Ok... with fingers and toes crossed I picked up the clocking ring from the PO today and scurried over after work for a quick test fit. This CR is NWF's idea of what will fix my fitment issue. So as the shop was closing I quickly tore open the box and slapped on the ring, sans the 1/4" mounting foot. I then hefted the Black Box in place with my breath being held and...
It fits!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoooooooooopieeeeeeeeeee!
I hope. :)
Let me just say that the initial trial holds really good promise!?! With just the clocking ring alone the two parts mesh. At least there wasn't a huge gap as before and even though no fasteners were used I think this may be it. I really need to ponder if I Want to use the mounting foot at this point since that will be one extra pair of mating surfaces to maybe leak? Any thoughts here would be nice. NWF says it needs the support and while I don't disagree with them on that...I wonder if there isn't another way to do that? Maybe just use the clocking ring and maybe build a custom bracket/foot/mount thingy that ties into some of the bolts under there somehow? The Tranny has one but there is a good maybe 18 inches hanging off the rear of that?
Well.. that's the exciting news for today... throw me your ideas and wish me luck on Saturday since I will be wrenching and hoping! :)
 
Go with some kind of a second mount.

Here is my Horror Story. In the early 70's I put an LT1 350/350Hp with a Turbo 400 tranny in a FJ40. Used the setup Downey Toyota had came up with. Remember, this was just when this swap was first coming out.

It had one mount up on the transmission. Nothing back by the transfer case.

The first time out was to the dunes by Murtle Beach, SC. I went over a jump and landed with a heck of a jolt. Because there was no support back by the transfer case. Just in front of where the adapter bolted to the transmission. The transmission cracked and fluid went everywhere. I had to transfer all the guts from the tranny I had to a different case.

After my experience, Downey redesigned and started including a second mount in their kit.

Once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 
Mounts...

Thanks for the info Capt.N J... I am thinking I will make some form of a mount but I am just not sure I like the idea of a full addition to the direct drive train. I will likely include the tranny's foot mount as one part. Then I will look at the other bolts and options further towards the rear to tie in another. I just don't want to add another flat set of mating surfaces between the t-case, clocking ring, range box, and tranny as its getting a little much. Once I can actually lay under it Sat I will know more... stay tuned. :)
 
I suck...

Well...I didn't make it to the shop today so no progress. My evil Romanian GF is heading home for a few weeks soon and asked me to hang out with her. She is a bartender so finding any time to do that is already difficult so I am ok with putting the jeep off for another week. Plus next weekend is a 4 day so I hope I can spend 2 days instead of just one. Pushing it in and out sucks. haha.
 
Bah....

Well... I tried to get the time to work on the jeep today but it was almost nil. I was going to start by pulling the rear cover off the NV4500 to reseal it but some fool assembled it with torx bolts. :banghead: While that may be a great idea at the factory I found only trouble. Got most loose and then stripped the hardest to get to one...go figure! I really need to get that cover off and check it. It seems to leak from some strange area that I can't pinpoint. I'm concerned that maybe there is a hairline crack in it I can't see and sure don't want to fill it with that uber-expensive fluid until I'm sure it won't dribble out. I may try and just weld a nut onto the stripped fastner and try and find a replacement something that has a normal head. That should be fun here in the land of metric.
I'm also on duty helping the ER (Evil Romanian) move on Monday so I made her promise I could work on the jeep witho no guilt trip tomorrow. Now I just need to steal enough sleep tonight to not ba a zombie...lol.
I'll try for some pics for ya BK but can't promise anything... :evil:
 
Poo......I suck.

I have nothing useful to report today. I've been fighting off a nasty cold for a couple weeks and the only way to get to sleep last night was a healthy dose of Nyquil. Well...that did its job but I slept until 3pm! :banghead: All I could manage today was to go back to the shop and pack it all up and roll it outside. I know I am on moving detail for the ER Monday so this weekend is pretty much a wash. :(
As sad as this sounds I am kinda actually looking forward to the ER going home on vacation for a while. She will be gone about three weeks so maybe I can finally get some progress. Damn...I sure sound whipped! lol! Oh well...
 
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