Meet Red, my 81 Restomod Build

sdsupilot

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I used an ebay clocking ring recommended by Jason Adams. With the stock NT 30, 10 degrees up works pretty well and is similar to Dana 300 ground clearance. Clocking further up causes quite a few issues. The input for the 30 is actually closer to center line than the output for the 241. This causes the driveshaft to have less clearance to the trans pan. Also, unless you lower the trans it will contact the floor of the tub.

This was based on my 4.3/700r4/241C swap. I built a tube cross member, then built a skid plate out of 3/16" plate. I like this setup as you can remove the skid plate and the trans/transcase stays put.
 

Randyzzz

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I used an ebay clocking ring recommended by Jason Adams. With the stock NT 30, 10 degrees up works pretty well and is similar to Dana 300 ground clearance. Clocking further up causes quite a few issues. The input for the 30 is actually closer to center line than the output for the 241. This causes the driveshaft to have less clearance to the trans pan. Also, unless you lower the trans it will contact the floor of the tub.

This was based on my 4.3/700r4/241C swap. I built a tube cross member, then built a skid plate out of 3/16" plate. I like this setup as you can remove the skid plate and the trans/transcase stays put.
Do you remember who made the plate? I checked your build but couldn’t find it.
 

Randyzzz

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hd4xparts on eBay

I used their: Clocking Dana 300 NP208 NP231 NP241 6 Bolt Passenger Side Drop - Lift Ring
Not currently showing that one on eBay right now. If that is the one you need, I'd message them.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/hd4xparts/m.html?item=174045345053&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
That was the one I had saved. 👍🏻 My only concern is that at 3/8 thick the hub centric portion of the case no longer indexes into the adapter. For a daily driver I don’t know if that makes a difference. There is the possibility of a minute misalignment.

My other concern is with a 3/8 adapter there is plenty of spline engagement- stock is 2 5/8, with 3/8 adapter makes it 2 1/4. With a 3/4 thick adapter, there’s 1 7/8 engagement. Not 1.5x the minor diameter of a 32 spline shaft. However, the output yoke has only 1 3/4 spline engagement and that end has to deal with the additional torque of the gear reduction in 4low. I’m thinking if the factory was satisfied with 1 3/4 engagement, I should be OK with 1 7/8. Thoughts?

Just measured, spline depth on the input gear is 2 1/4. So if the hub centric concern is invalid, the 3/8 adapter would be ideal.


This is why it takes me so long to get things done. I have a bit of a tendency to overthink stuff. 🤔
 
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sdsupilot

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Make sure to double check for the correct drop... I accidentally bought the wrong one. Seller was great to deal with. The holes on mine weren't perfect (I have bad OCD). They lined up well enough though in my opinion. Everything slid together nicely.

#1 thing to ensure is that when you silicone the adapter to the tcase - make sure the studs do not contact the transfer case. Mine did, I had to pull the tcase and do it again. Not fun, but not the end of the world.

Mine has 3K miles on the conversion with everything being happy so far. I also have way less power than you will. I think its good to "over think" stuff. Its amazing the solutions people come up with.
 

Randyzzz

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Thanks for the reply. I might have researched myself into an expensive solution through Advance Adapters. They make a 1 1/4” Atlas to 4l80e adapter and a 1” spacer/clocking ring. This would give a 2 1/4” overall adapter length with clocking. The stock adapter is 2 5/8” so I might have to shave the end of the output shaft. But- it would all be concentric through the hub flanges and seal well.

What’s another couple hundred at this point?😞
 

Randyzzz

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Well, a phone call crashed that idea. Back to the drawing board. That eBay adapter is looking better every minute.
 

Randyzzz

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Ok... relief from my mental gymnastics. My rear disc brake kit arrived today. Getting closer to having a complete rear end!

1596D294-0BFE-4496-B7E4-4215FB15A528.jpeg
4A1150FA-09AB-4DCB-8417-B0621D62C095.jpeg
 

spankrjs

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Randy,

I had to use a "clocking ring" when I installed my AX15 because the transmission output shaft was too long. So, not the same as you, and obviously I am using a different engine/transmission/transfer case, but maybe the pictures could be useful:

https://www.cj-8.com/threads/anothe...trip-update-body-on-frame-again.24692/page-62

Starts around Post #1233, and continues on the next page with better pictures.

My clocking ring came from Novak. I also have a 1" body lift, which helped with the clearance. IIRC, the only setting that would work for me without floorboard or other crazy modifications was the 9 degree setting.

Hope that help, maybe :shrug:
 

Randyzzz

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Boy, talk about leading yourself down the proverbial rabbit hole. I'm going to my stack of spare cases and such and pull apart some retainers and adapters and see just what clearances I'm dealing with. I have been researching tons, and I'll lay it out here in case it's useful to someone in the future.

JB Conversions feels that 1 1/2" engagement of the splined shaft is adequate. This is on a smaller 27 spline shaft. They also believe maintaining the hubcentric portion of the adapter is important. Likewise, Novak believes maintaining the hubcentric portion is important.

A 3/8" clocking ring does not allow the hubcentric feature of the adapter to engage, therefore the adapter is centered by the 6 studs protruding from the clocking ring. This can allow for minor misalignment and added stress as the studs carry all the weight, side torque, and rotational torque. The torque issues could be mitigated with another mount at the rear of the transfer case. The misalignment issue would probably not show up on a dedicated wheeling rig, but on a daily driver my concern is that even a couple thousandths would lead to eventual bearing or shaft failure at just the wrong moment on a cross country trip.

Potential Solutions:

Novak makes a 3" adapter with a replacement input for the Jeep/Dodge 241 to a 4L80E. This is the most expensive solution at $528. Not a deal breaker but I really don't want to tear down the transfer case a second time to replace the front input. That is if I can even get it to clock correctly...

Advance Adapters makes a few pieces that might be useful. This would run about $325. They have a 1 1/4" 4L80E to Atlas adapter, and a 1" clocking ring. This would actually allow full spline engagement and be a bit shorter than my current factory adapter. The issue here is the size of the bearing retainer on the Atlas is larger than the 241C, I would have to machine a ring spacer to take up the extra clearance. Plus the front adapter piece uses silicone instead of the factory o-ring at the 4L80E tailhousing. I don't really like that.

Another idea would be to use a 241D case with my 32 spline GM input and JB SYE. The Dodge case is already clocked up higher, but the bolt pattern is Jeep so the clocking is all off. I could turn my GM adapter 90* and make it work or buy the Novak or Advance casting. This could add up quickly, as the castings alone are $400-500. Best part is the Dodge case would leave the shifter on more of a vertical plane as opposed to the Chev case.

Lastly- make friends at the machine shop. I could either have a bearing retainer made with a 3/8" higher shoulder to allow a clocking ring. Or go nuts and have an integrated bearing retainer/clocking ring machined. Or have the factory GM adapter welded up and redrilled to the position I need.

Stay tuned!
 

Randyzzz

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Think I found the solution, thanks to confirmation in spankrjs well documented post. The AS-8603 that I posted further up is 3/4" thick. It maintains the hubcentric function of the original adapter. Using this piece my spline engagement stays at 1 3/4", maximum is 2 1/8 so I'm close, within what JB considers allowable. I'm going to try this and hopefully it will be perfect. My rear driveshaft will be 3/4" shorter, but the 9" rear has a shorter snout so Im really losing nothing. Ordered more mandrel bends to reroute the exhaust.
 

Randyzzz

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A few more parts showed up today. My third member for the rear end came in ahead of schedule, as did the clocking ring from Advance Adapters. 282E652C-2B7D-49D2-A276-60E7EEB8D034.jpeg 58DE7AB8-D53D-43D8-B2B3-24FDB9352562.jpeg

The third member build has a Yukon Nodular case, a nodular Daytona pinion support, forged yoke, 3.50 gears, and a 31 spline True-Trac. This should be one bulletproof rear axle.

9BB20CC2-03DF-4387-B334-4A3A29D05C92.jpeg

And the clocking ring. 3/4” thick with all studs and 2 gaskets, $68 plus shipping. Machining is perfection. I’ll install it on Monday.
 

Randyzzz

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Did a little light work today. Felt the need to get the steering column kibbles and bits off the workbench. I started out with a 91 Cherokee tilt column. First I cut off the lower mounting flange so it looks like a CJ column. 40F201A6-F54D-4751-96D2-431A3D5565F4.jpeg

Next I took it apart to remove the Cherokee shift cable interlock. This keeps you from removing the key unless it’s in park via a cable between the column and Cherokee floor shifter. There’s no provision on a Scrambler for that. Here’s the removed piece. EFAD2A44-28B9-4D5A-8BC6-51590B087A91.jpeg

While I was that deep in I decided to check the tilt bucket bolts. They were all finger tight. Removed, cleaned, locktite applied, and retorqued. 74FC83FD-843F-4949-AB7C-C13A919EEBD8.jpeg

Since I had removed the interlock to keep the key from being turned/removed unless it was in park, I also trimmed the lockplate pin so it couldn’t lock my steering while driving. After that reassembly. Guess I did OK- no extra pieces and everything works. 8C3732F6-3B26-49C6-A6A1-03036CC33FAF.jpeg
155BAE99-97BF-494F-AFB9-9CE1294600F9.jpeg

I’m going to do something a bit different key-wise this time around. I’ve never been a fan of the old GM style keys that wear thin, and require 2 keys. I’m putting a 91 Cherokee double-sided key in this column and then building door cylinders to match. One key for everything. Bolt company makes lock cylinders for toolboxes and glove boxes that are “programmable” to your existing key. So with any luck I’ll only need one key for everything on Red.
 
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