OT: Retro Wrangler/Willys Pickup (long)
- Thread starter jscherb
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jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
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- NY
CJ8LVR said:Absolutely not.
I'm sure there are others that would love to meet you that may never get the chance otherwise. You do own a Scrambler ~ that's good enough. So come on - bring the Retro-Wrangler!
I'm certainly nobody special to meet, but I can understand that some might want to see the Retro Wrangler...
I'll consider making the trip.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Yesterday I wrote about my bending brake; today I'll show you one project I made with it. Hopefully this will provide some useful info on simple part design, patternmaking and sheet metal fabrication.
First, the problem - where to mount the fuel filler once the TJ tub was cut off and the bed was mounted. Here's a few pictures showing what I went through. I wanted to use the stock filler tub and gas cap, to ensure emissions compatibility and for a factory look.
A - The stock filler location in the side of the tub.
B - If I tried to mount the fuel filler in the same location on the pickup bed, it would protrude into the inside of the bed and since the bed isn't as wide as the original tub, it would fall too far inside the frame to meet up with the tank fitting.
C - If I tried to mount it flush with the bed side but below the bed floor using the stock TJ plastic filler cup, it would look very factory, but the tube wouldn't line up with the fitting on the tank, and the long vent tube would interfere with the bed floor.
D - So the solution would seem to be mounting it above the surface of the bed side, on an angled bracket that holds the filler several inches above the surface of the bed side. Now I just needed to fabricate one.
1. So having decided on an angled "box" to hold the filler, I made some rough measurements, and used my drawing program (Microsoft Visio) to make a pattern that would fold up into the shape I needed. It took a few tries to get exactly what I wanted, but it's really easy to make a change on the computer, print the pattern on cardstock, cut it out and fold it up. One tip about the pattern - you can see slightly darker rectangles at the top and the bottom of the pattern in this photo - these are "temporary extensions" and are used because the brake will need about an inch to have enough leverage to bend the 16-gauge; the sides of the final box there will be about a half-inch, if I tried to clamp that in the brake and fold it the sheet metal might slip in the brake. I cut the extra off after I made the fold.
2. I tried the cardboard prototypes on the truck, and also tried fitting the filler in the carboard prototype, and tweaked the pattern a bit more until I was happy with it.
3. I transferred the pattern to a piece of 16-gauge galvanized steel sheet with a Sharpie marker and cut it out using my bandsaw (the bandsaw will be the subject of the next tip). I marked the fold locations with dashed lines to make sure I didn't cut wrong or bend wrong
4. For the large center hole, I drilled several large holes with a step bit on the drill press, and then used a metal blade in my sabre saw to cut the full circle. I could have used a hole saw to do the entire hole in one step, but I didn't have the correct size.
5. Using the brake, I folded the box just like I had folded the cardboard template. In this photo you can see two c-clamps holding a long piece of steel angle to secure the sheet for bending, this was for the very first bend, but as the folding progressed, I had to switch to a narrow clamp piece just the width of each box side in order to complete the folding. Tip: think through the sequence of your bends when making something like this, depending on what you're making, sometimes the bends must be done in a specific order for them to be accomplished on the brake. (I'm sorry I don't have detailed close-up photos of the bending being done, didn't think to take any at the time)
6. I used my flanger/punch to pop a few holes in the side of the box for attaching the mounting feet inside the box. The feet go inside the box so the screws that hold this part to the bed side will be hidden when it is installed.
7. I welded the mounting feet in place inside the box using plug welds, then I welded the corner joints closed. This steel was galvanized, as I mentioned before, I used it because it is much more resistant to rust, but I did grind the edges where I planned to weld. The fumes made by welding galvanized are toxic, and sometimes welds don't work as well over galvanized due to the vaporization of the zinc contaminating the molten bead, so it is best to remove the galvanizing at the weld points.
8. I drilled the holes to secure the stock filler, and went on to making the hole in the bed side for the filler to stick through. Not drilled yet in this photo, but visible in the fnished photo I posted yesterday, is a hole for stock the gas cap retaining strap to snap into.
Once everything was fitted to my satisfaction, I ground down the welds, sanded the entire filler bracket smooth and primed it with self-etching rattle-can primer. All the body shop did to it to finish it was a coat of highi-build epoxy primer, then red color coat, then clear coat. And you can see the finished product photo in yesterday's post on the bending brake.
Full Disclosure: I made one fuel filler box before I started the main build of the truck, and when I got to the point in the main build where I needed to install it, I discovered I needed a steeper angle on the box, so I had to make a second one. I just modified the original pattern in Visio, printed it out, and went through these steps a second time to build the second corrected one. The good news it that this is pretty much the only component of the entire Retro Wrangler build where my initial design for a part didn't work when I got to the assembly stage, so I'm pretty happy with my batting average designing parts
First, the problem - where to mount the fuel filler once the TJ tub was cut off and the bed was mounted. Here's a few pictures showing what I went through. I wanted to use the stock filler tub and gas cap, to ensure emissions compatibility and for a factory look.
A - The stock filler location in the side of the tub.
B - If I tried to mount the fuel filler in the same location on the pickup bed, it would protrude into the inside of the bed and since the bed isn't as wide as the original tub, it would fall too far inside the frame to meet up with the tank fitting.
C - If I tried to mount it flush with the bed side but below the bed floor using the stock TJ plastic filler cup, it would look very factory, but the tube wouldn't line up with the fitting on the tank, and the long vent tube would interfere with the bed floor.
D - So the solution would seem to be mounting it above the surface of the bed side, on an angled bracket that holds the filler several inches above the surface of the bed side. Now I just needed to fabricate one.
1. So having decided on an angled "box" to hold the filler, I made some rough measurements, and used my drawing program (Microsoft Visio) to make a pattern that would fold up into the shape I needed. It took a few tries to get exactly what I wanted, but it's really easy to make a change on the computer, print the pattern on cardstock, cut it out and fold it up. One tip about the pattern - you can see slightly darker rectangles at the top and the bottom of the pattern in this photo - these are "temporary extensions" and are used because the brake will need about an inch to have enough leverage to bend the 16-gauge; the sides of the final box there will be about a half-inch, if I tried to clamp that in the brake and fold it the sheet metal might slip in the brake. I cut the extra off after I made the fold.
2. I tried the cardboard prototypes on the truck, and also tried fitting the filler in the carboard prototype, and tweaked the pattern a bit more until I was happy with it.
3. I transferred the pattern to a piece of 16-gauge galvanized steel sheet with a Sharpie marker and cut it out using my bandsaw (the bandsaw will be the subject of the next tip). I marked the fold locations with dashed lines to make sure I didn't cut wrong or bend wrong
4. For the large center hole, I drilled several large holes with a step bit on the drill press, and then used a metal blade in my sabre saw to cut the full circle. I could have used a hole saw to do the entire hole in one step, but I didn't have the correct size.
5. Using the brake, I folded the box just like I had folded the cardboard template. In this photo you can see two c-clamps holding a long piece of steel angle to secure the sheet for bending, this was for the very first bend, but as the folding progressed, I had to switch to a narrow clamp piece just the width of each box side in order to complete the folding. Tip: think through the sequence of your bends when making something like this, depending on what you're making, sometimes the bends must be done in a specific order for them to be accomplished on the brake. (I'm sorry I don't have detailed close-up photos of the bending being done, didn't think to take any at the time)
6. I used my flanger/punch to pop a few holes in the side of the box for attaching the mounting feet inside the box. The feet go inside the box so the screws that hold this part to the bed side will be hidden when it is installed.
7. I welded the mounting feet in place inside the box using plug welds, then I welded the corner joints closed. This steel was galvanized, as I mentioned before, I used it because it is much more resistant to rust, but I did grind the edges where I planned to weld. The fumes made by welding galvanized are toxic, and sometimes welds don't work as well over galvanized due to the vaporization of the zinc contaminating the molten bead, so it is best to remove the galvanizing at the weld points.
8. I drilled the holes to secure the stock filler, and went on to making the hole in the bed side for the filler to stick through. Not drilled yet in this photo, but visible in the fnished photo I posted yesterday, is a hole for stock the gas cap retaining strap to snap into.
Once everything was fitted to my satisfaction, I ground down the welds, sanded the entire filler bracket smooth and primed it with self-etching rattle-can primer. All the body shop did to it to finish it was a coat of highi-build epoxy primer, then red color coat, then clear coat. And you can see the finished product photo in yesterday's post on the bending brake.
Full Disclosure: I made one fuel filler box before I started the main build of the truck, and when I got to the point in the main build where I needed to install it, I discovered I needed a steeper angle on the box, so I had to make a second one. I just modified the original pattern in Visio, printed it out, and went through these steps a second time to build the second corrected one. The good news it that this is pretty much the only component of the entire Retro Wrangler build where my initial design for a part didn't work when I got to the assembly stage, so I'm pretty happy with my batting average designing parts
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Today's item is about the tool that shares the #1 spot in importance for me when doing metal fabrication - my metal-cutting bandsaw. I couldn't have done the pickup project without either my welder or my bandsaw. Virtually every piece of metal I cut on the entire project was cut on this saw. I think perhaps the only metal cutting I didn't do for the project was the cutting to remove the rear of the tub and cutting the frame in half. Other than that, everything happened on this saw.
Mine is a WW-II vintage 14" Delta Rockwell unit, it is similar in many ways and can share parts with the current Delta 14" bandsaws, with the key difference being that this saw has a gear-reduction unit to slow the blade down to the speeds necessary for cutting metal (a wood-cutting bandsaw won't work for metal). New saws like this are very expensive, maybe $3400 list/$2500 street, but I lucked into this nearly 70-year old one very inexpensively.
I've got a 14 tpi bi-metal blade in it, this one blade has been used for the entire project. I've cut everything from TJ frame rails to steel angle to 20-gauge sheet metal on this saw. The 14-tpi blade cuts so smoothly, almost no clean up is required on the cuts (try that with a plasma cutter! ) Tip: if you get a bandsaw, spend the extra money for a bi-metal blade ($40 vs. $12). Probably 50x the life of the cheap blade.
If I wasn't lucky enough to have acquired this one, what I probably would have done would be to buy a unit like the $250 red Harbor Freight one pictured below, (or if I was really pressed for budget, a portable one like the orange one below) and done a little fabricating around it so that it would have a table and the blade would be vertical like my larger saw. Despite the more limited capacity (6" vs. my unit's 14"), I still could have gotten pretty much everything done that I needed to on a saw like one of these smaller ones. Here's an article by guy who modified his bandsaw to be vertical with a table, although that part of the article is a little sketchy... http://www.mini-lathe.com/Bandsaw/Bandsaw.htm. Here's another link, about halfway down the thread it shows an inexpensive portable saw set up vertically with a table: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/738780/. I think I've seen other articles on the internet with similar mods.
If you're planing a serious fabrication project, I highly recommend a metal cutting bandsaw. I can't imagine being without one, it really helps my fabrication be very high quality because of the accuracy with which I can cut parts.
Mine is a WW-II vintage 14" Delta Rockwell unit, it is similar in many ways and can share parts with the current Delta 14" bandsaws, with the key difference being that this saw has a gear-reduction unit to slow the blade down to the speeds necessary for cutting metal (a wood-cutting bandsaw won't work for metal). New saws like this are very expensive, maybe $3400 list/$2500 street, but I lucked into this nearly 70-year old one very inexpensively.
I've got a 14 tpi bi-metal blade in it, this one blade has been used for the entire project. I've cut everything from TJ frame rails to steel angle to 20-gauge sheet metal on this saw. The 14-tpi blade cuts so smoothly, almost no clean up is required on the cuts (try that with a plasma cutter!
) Tip: if you get a bandsaw, spend the extra money for a bi-metal blade ($40 vs. $12). Probably 50x the life of the cheap blade. If I wasn't lucky enough to have acquired this one, what I probably would have done would be to buy a unit like the $250 red Harbor Freight one pictured below, (or if I was really pressed for budget, a portable one like the orange one below) and done a little fabricating around it so that it would have a table and the blade would be vertical like my larger saw. Despite the more limited capacity (6" vs. my unit's 14"), I still could have gotten pretty much everything done that I needed to on a saw like one of these smaller ones. Here's an article by guy who modified his bandsaw to be vertical with a table, although that part of the article is a little sketchy... http://www.mini-lathe.com/Bandsaw/Bandsaw.htm. Here's another link, about halfway down the thread it shows an inexpensive portable saw set up vertically with a table: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/738780/. I think I've seen other articles on the internet with similar mods.
If you're planing a serious fabrication project, I highly recommend a metal cutting bandsaw. I can't imagine being without one, it really helps my fabrication be very high quality because of the accuracy with which I can cut parts.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Thanks! I can use the mitre gauge from my Delta tablesaw in the slot in the bandsaw table, but not the fence. I have a bandsaw-specific fence for it, the slotted aluminum bar on the edge of the table is part of the fence, the fence itself isn't in the photos. If you're intrested in more detail I can probably find a link to the fence somewhere, I think it was about $120.doslocos said:
doslocos
Basic User
- City
- Dolores
- State
- co
Yes I am interested in the fence, I thought it looked like the same aluminum bar as the one on my unisaw. Can you speed up that bandsaw and put a wood blade on it? The belt system looks similar to a drill press. Just wondering if I could slow my bandsaw down.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
I'll look up the fence next time I get near an internet connection, I'm writing on my Blackberry right now. The fence is not the same as the Unifence.doslocos said:
My bandsaw is dual purpose, it works at either wood speeds or metal speeds. The metal speeds are accomplished through a gearbox; using different pulleys won't get you anywhere near the slow 200 feet per minute blade speed you need for metal. IIRC, woodworking band saws work at a fast 2500 fpm or something like that. So no, sorry to tell you that a woodworking bandsaw cannot be slowed down enough to be used for metal cutting.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
I can't seem to find my exact bandsaw fence online anymore, maybe it isn't available anymore. But it is almost identical to this one: http://www.kregtool.com/products/pms/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=38
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
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- NY
Checked with the body shop today, they're making good progress on the top. Should have it back next week.
Today I'll ramble a bit about Cleco clamps... actually didn't learn about these during this project, my father had a set when I was a kid so I've known about them for a very long time, but they came in very handy a number of times during the Retro Wrangler project when I was doing sheet metal work. In the photo below I'm using a vise-grip and two Clecos to hold two pieces of sheet metal together. For basic clamping of two pieces of sheet metal, the Cleco outside clamp (center) is often better than a vise-grip because it is small and light so it won't get in the way and the weight of it won't stress or bend the metal.
The Cleco inside clamp (bottom and also in the Cleco pliers, also known by some as a "temporary rivet") works where no other clamp can - it provides its clamping force inside a small hole in the two pieces of metal (1/8" in this case). In the bottom photo, I'm working up some patch panels for a curved section of the old CJ-10a roof panel (I was doing this for practice, I didn't use this panel on the truck). You can see how these clamps are holding the roughed panels in place so I can work on them. After the panels would be welded in place, the clamps are removed and the 1/8 holes they were in get welded closed.
I think I paid maybe $40 for my Cleco pliers, 6 outer clamps and a dozen inner clamps at the Hershey Antique Auto Show flea market last year. You can also get them through Eastwood, although not as cheaply (http://eastwood.resultspage.com/search?p=Q&ts=custom&w=cleco).
Today I'll ramble a bit about Cleco clamps... actually didn't learn about these during this project, my father had a set when I was a kid so I've known about them for a very long time, but they came in very handy a number of times during the Retro Wrangler project when I was doing sheet metal work. In the photo below I'm using a vise-grip and two Clecos to hold two pieces of sheet metal together. For basic clamping of two pieces of sheet metal, the Cleco outside clamp (center) is often better than a vise-grip because it is small and light so it won't get in the way and the weight of it won't stress or bend the metal.
The Cleco inside clamp (bottom and also in the Cleco pliers, also known by some as a "temporary rivet") works where no other clamp can - it provides its clamping force inside a small hole in the two pieces of metal (1/8" in this case). In the bottom photo, I'm working up some patch panels for a curved section of the old CJ-10a roof panel (I was doing this for practice, I didn't use this panel on the truck). You can see how these clamps are holding the roughed panels in place so I can work on them. After the panels would be welded in place, the clamps are removed and the 1/8 holes they were in get welded closed.
I think I paid maybe $40 for my Cleco pliers, 6 outer clamps and a dozen inner clamps at the Hershey Antique Auto Show flea market last year. You can also get them through Eastwood, although not as cheaply (http://eastwood.resultspage.com/search?p=Q&ts=custom&w=cleco).
AJM81CJ8
Door Breaker
- City
- Kalamazoo
- State
- MI
As an aircraft mechanic, I use clecos all the time. They have to be one of the greatest inventions out there. I know of several other sources to aquire them: www.yardstore.com, www.aircraft-tool.com, www.browntool.com. These are some of the suppliers that I have delt with in the past and they are all fantastic. The Yard used to bring a truck and trailer up to my work once a year, but they stopped doing that because of the high fuel costs. But they have a great selection of sheetmetel tools, which can (and do) come in handy when working on cars. Some of the structures mechanics that I work with have in the ball park of 200 clecos of each size. Also, when looking at clecos, draw clecos are really cool. Instead of being spring loaded, they are snugged down using a screw mechanism, allowing panels that don't fix together exactly to be drawn together and held securely. Just my .02.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Progress is being made on finishing the Retro Wrangler hardtop, but it has been slowed by the amount of collision work at the body shop. I guess people are driving crazy in the snow and ice this year.
Here are some photos of the main parts of the hardtop in epoxy primer, ready for block sanding. Jamie made some improvements to my base body work on the roof panel before doing the primer - he's a perfectionist so my amateur work wasn't up to his standards. He plans to do the block sanding a little later this week and plans to do the final painting by this Friday. If that happens, I'll be doing the final assembly on Monday.
Here are some photos of the main parts of the hardtop in epoxy primer, ready for block sanding. Jamie made some improvements to my base body work on the roof panel before doing the primer - he's a perfectionist so my amateur work wasn't up to his standards
. He plans to do the block sanding a little later this week and plans to do the final painting by this Friday. If that happens, I'll be doing the final assembly on Monday.
AJM81CJ8
Door Breaker
- City
- Kalamazoo
- State
- MI
Jeff- This has got to be one of the best threads I've seen on any of the Forums that I'm on.
You're writes up are so detailed and in depth. I'd tell you to submit the writes as a basis for a series of articles to Auto Restorer Magazine, but they tend to be more old car related. But, your write up are deffinately publishable.
You're writes up are so detailed and in depth. I'd tell you to submit the writes as a basis for a series of articles to Auto Restorer Magazine, but they tend to be more old car related. But, your write up are deffinately publishable.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
AJM81CJ8 said:Jeff- This has got to be one of the best threads I've seen on any of the Forums that I'm on.
Thank you very much! I've gotten lots of great input and feedback from everyone here on this project, so I'm trying to add some value back for everyone else with the stuff I'm posting. I'm glad you like it.
I'm not sure where this stuff really could be published, I think a lot of it would have gone well in jRations magazine before it folded, but of the remaining magazines it seems to me the Jeep and 4WD magazines are very focused on off-road stuff, the truck magazines aren't interested in Jeeps, and this project is too new for the classic car/restoration magazines, so all of the things in this thread would seem to fall into a black hole in between all of the magazines out there
Oh well.
kellyt_hut
Basic User
- City
- Bushnell
- State
- Fl
My wife (or My smarter Half)
put together a cookbook from all of her Grandmothers recipes and went to www.blurb.com. She said it was very easy to put together. Her Book is now published and it can be bought online.
Check the site out - She said it was simple. I am amazed that my Wife is published.
I would Love for You to put a book together so I can get a copy!!
put together a cookbook from all of her Grandmothers recipes and went to www.blurb.com. She said it was very easy to put together. Her Book is now published and it can be bought online. Check the site out - She said it was simple. I am amazed that my Wife is published.
I would Love for You to put a book together so I can get a copy!!
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Actually I've been published lots of times... writing, photography and illustration are side hobbies of mine. In 2002 I wrote and illustrated a book of drawings from the Pennsylvania Railroad (trains and railroads are another interest of mine); in 2004 I did a Volume 2. I've had about a dozen Jeep-related articles published in jRations magazine, and over the years, almost 50 articles and illustrations published in about 5 different railroad-oriented magazines both here and in the UK.kellyt_hut said:My wife (or My smarter Half)
Check the site out - She said it was simple. I am amazed that my Wife is published.
I would Love for You to put a book together so I can get a copy!!
So when I've written here occasionally about the thought of doing a book on the Retro Wrangler project, I was being serious about the idea. I'm still thinking about it. I'm sure if I broke a leg or something and was laid up I'd pass the time by writing a book, but right now I'm still pretty busy and doing a high-quality book takes a lot of time. I've been thinking of doing a sample chapter or two and circulating it among the likely publishers to see if there'd be any interest in publishing it. As I wrote a few posts ago, I think this subject falls between the cracks of many other parts of the car hobby and I'm not sure a publisher would be interested.