The "Once in a while" 1983 Scrambler Laredo Build

[4miles]

I was thinking of using the Painless wiring kits "Positive Coil" wire (red/white) for the power(purple) to the distributor. The green wire on the distributor should connect to the tach signal wires of the Painless kit for the gauge as well as the white wire(not sure if its visible by the passenger fender) which is tach signal for the Howell EFI kit.

Thanks to all who helped me out.

Is that a factory tach? The question came up recently and I did a couple of searches on it and from what I understand, the factory tach is wired differently than an aftermarket. It is a series tach and is wired key>tach>hei ignition. The aftermarket would be wired as described above. Here are a couple quick links on it. Worth looking into.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539739
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/hei-foactory-cj-tach-470297/

 

[53D Scrambler]

I learned the TDC method the same way when doing my HEI install too after being 180° out Great minds!

I ended up going with the method of making a duct tape ball larger than the spark plug hole and slightly pushing it in the hole, then waiting for it to pop out on the compression stroke

Yea, I was banging my head against the wall for that one. At least I was able to post it up onto an internet forum so the whole Scrambler world could see my mistake

It will fire right up! Set the timing back to 8 BTDC and you'll be smiling for years!

I hope so. I can't wait to fire this thing up, waiting till after I get back from the folks place for Christmas is gonna be tough.

Is that a factory tach? The question came up recently and I did a couple of searches on it and from I understand, the factory tach is wired differently than an aftermarket. It is a series tach and is wired key>tach>hei ignition. The aftermarket would be wired as described above. Here a couple quick links on it. Worth looking into

I believe it is a factory tach, at least it is a reproduction of one. It's definitely not an Autometer 5" with external shift light. The tach itself has 2 wires coming from the back of it that are terminated with plastic connectors and female terminals. The wires are a large (12ga) red wire which I am assuming is the signal wire, and a smaller(14ga) orange wire which I believe would be for the back lighting. I have an extra lighting wire(orange) and ground(black) combo from the Painless kit that they include but am unsure how to wire the lighting for the tach since it doesn't have a ground coming out of the gauge.

I will get some pictures of it later today.

 

[53D Scrambler]

Wants to run!

Oh so close. After the CRT HEI distributor install I completed the wiring "temporarily." The first couple cranks there didn't seem to be any spark. However after a couple tries I got some combustion, then for the last 2 attempts the engine fired/ran for about 1-2 cycles of the cylinders but wouldn't catch and "self sustain."

I don't know if anyone would have any troubleshooting hints. I am leaning towards

1: Distributor might be a little off, was installed at TDC on the Compression stroke but maybe a gear tooth off? I would think it would still be able to run though.

2: The tach pickup for the Howell EFI is connected to the CRT Distributor wire labled "tach" However on the original ignition it connected to the negative side of the coil, I am not sure if the CRT Distributor provides a different type of signal that isn't working with the Howell EFI?

Hope to have it running by new years.

 

[AK-RWC]

Rotate the distributor 5-10 degrees in either direction and keeping trying. If you've got combustion you're REALLY close!

 

[bigwalton]

Rotate the distributor 5-10 degrees in either direction and keeping trying. If you've got combustion you're REALLY close!

What he said. I think you're going to get it real soon.

 

[53D Scrambler]

Originally Posted by AK-RWC
Rotate the distributor 5-10 degrees in either direction and keeping trying. If you've got combustion you're REALLY close!

What he said. I think you're going to get it real soon.

That's what I was thinking too. I will give it another go tonight after work.

 

[Jeeperdd]

2: The tach pickup for the Howell EFI is connected to the CRT Distributor wire labled "tach" However on the original ignition it connected to the negative side of the coil, I am not sure if the CRT Distributor provides a different type of signal that isn't working with the Howell EFI?
QUOTE]

The CRT Just needs a 12V power source, the Howell tach pickup wire is just getting info from the tach.

I agree you are almost there!

 

[53D Scrambler]

2: The tach pickup for the Howell EFI is connected to the CRT Distributor wire labled "tach" However on the original ignition it connected to the negative side of the coil, I am not sure if the CRT Distributor provides a different type of signal that isn't working with the Howell EFI?
QUOTE]

The CRT Just needs a 12V power source, the Howell tach pickup wire is just getting info from the tach.

I agree you are almost there!

Well I thought so too, but.... When I rotated the Dizzy counter clockwise about 10 deg it sounded like it didn't want to light off, the rotated the other way 10 deg and the engine didn't want to turn over. Now, my starter solenoid is just clicking so I think that might be caput.

I am going to check the wiring and maybe re-isntall the distributor and possibly replace the solenoid to see what I can find.

 

[spankrjs]

You might be "cranking" the distributor a bit too much

It does not take much "twist" to greatly affect the timing advance/retard

Might want to TDC it again, then barely twist the distributor to get it running - think "baby step twists" A little bit of twist on that big distributor housing results in more advance/retard vs the stock small diameter distributor. Worth a shot anyway

When you get it up and running, you might want to nail down the advance with a timing light

 

[53D Scrambler]

You might be "cranking" the distributor a bit too much

It does not take much "twist" to greatly affect the timing advance/retard

Might want to TDC it again, then barely twist the distributor to get it running - think "baby step twists" A little bit of twist on that big distributor housing results in more advance/retard vs the stock small diameter distributor. Worth a shot anyway

When you get it up and running, you might want to nail down the advance with a timing light

I think you are right, I am not used to something this big

I believe the solenoid clicking over is indicating that the battery that was stored on my garage floor for the past year is out of schlitz. It is showing 12 volts but I dont't think it's putting out enough amps to engage the starter. More on that later. I just paused for some sloppy joes for dinner after finalizing all the wiring(which I called a Painless rep to confirm). Now I am going to take your advice and re-TDC the engine and re-install the distributor. That might be as far as I get tonight until I can try another battery, or at least charge this one on the trickle-charger.

Thanks

 

[53D Scrambler]

Everything is double checked. New battery is in. And the starter solenoid still just clicks over but there is not energizing of the starter. So I believe that the starter may be cooked(who knows how old it is). I am going to try a different one tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[53D Scrambler]

Success and it's Running!!!

Kind of:

The starting problem was caused by a worn starter cable that I recently replaced. Now power is getting to the starter. I also re-installed the CRT Distributor at TDC and aligned the rotor with a spark plug terminal that is the new #1 terminal.

I go to start it and it lights off and runs HOWEVER it doesnt stop running when I turn the ignition to the off position.

The engine also dies out after about 30 seconds of running on it's own. I rotated the distributor cap a couple degrees counter clockwise and it runs longer. I don't want to rotate it too much though before I get the timing light on it. Right now however I cant get it to keep running long enough to warm up to properly time it with the light.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

At least it starts/runs. Now I just have to get it to keep running and shut off on command.

 

[MrBeep]

It sounds as if it is running on the Alternator after you shut down the ignition until it runs out of fuel.

I wouldn't adjust the timing any mre until you find the "back feed" to your distributor feed wire. Sounds like the wire from the alternator is on the wrong terminal.

 

[53D Scrambler]

It sounds as if it is running on the Alternator after you shut down the ignition until it runs out of fuel.

I wouldn't adjust the timing any mre until you find the "back feed" to your distributor feed wire. Sounds like the wire from the alternator is on the wrong terminal.

Thank you very much Toby. Once again you help with great advice. That makes sense. I am going to take some pictures of my setup and post them to see if that will help diagnose the problem.

 

[spankrjs]

Glad you got it to run, but you didn't tell us you wanted it to turn off, too

Sounds like Toby has a good idea for your "wont turn off" issue

Congrats on getting it running

 

[53D Scrambler]

Glad you got it to run, but you didn't tell us you wanted it to turn off, too

Sounds like Toby has a good idea for your "wont turn off" issue

Congrats on getting it running

Thanks. And it turns off, just not by my doing

I am going to try to attach this wire diagram of how I have the painless kit wired with the HEI Distributor and Howell EFI. Lets hope it works

 

[jeepdreamer]

I SEE the problem!!!!!
Your supposed to put it on a truck and ship it to Ft Myers with the bill of sale made out to me!!!!
heehee!
Looking good sir... keep plugging away at it and you'll have it dead to nuts shortly!

 

[53D Scrambler]

I SEE the problem!!!!!
Your supposed to put it on a truck and ship it to Ft Myers with the bill of sale made out to me!!!!
heehee!
Looking good sir... keep plugging away at it and you'll have it dead to nuts shortly!

Ahhh you got my hopes up. Now I definitely won't be shipping it down to you!

I think I have found one of the problems though. The purple wire for the howell EFI on the diagram is said to be connected to "the opposite side of the solenoid as the battery" per the isntructions. So I think that might be why it's shutting off on me !?!?

 

[jeepdreamer]

Nuts....
Oh well... I'd rather you get it purring like a kitten and then I'll come pick it up. You almost there... We'll need a video of it running though.

 

[53D Scrambler]

Nuts....
Oh well... I'd rather you get it purring like a kitten and then I'll come pick it up. You almost there... We'll need a video of it running though.

Will do. I think I have it figured out....yet to test it though. Purple EFI wire is going to the wrong terminal on the solenoid, should be the S terminal. And I neglected to hook up a wire to the I terminal from the Painless kit. According to Painless tech's that is why I couldn't shut it off. I am hoping the purple wire being on the wrong terminal is why it was running out of fuel and dying. We shall see tomorrow.