New World Cabs?

[jscherb]

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[jscherb]

You know my design calls for a "half upper" rear door that connects to the stock TJ/YJ tailgate and opens and closes with the stock tailgate as a single unit.

One of the design details on the models is a perfectly vertical rear wall, but I still haven't completely decided if it should be vertical, or if it should slope forward slightly like almost every other SUV/van on the road.

If I made the rear wall vertical, the rear door opening would be the right size and shape that someone who really wanted a full metal barn door instead of my "upper door" could bolt on a DJ-5 postal rear door, here's a photo of one I picked up at the Pick-n-Pull yard a while back. You'd also get a cool retro embossed Jeep logo out of the deal

Also in this photo, to the right of the DJ-5 postal door is a pair of FJ-40 "ambulance doors", one of them is standing edge-on at the extreme right of the photo. Notice it angles forward slightly above the halfway point, which is the other way I'm considering making the hardtops - having the rear wall angle forward similar to the angle on the FJ-40 doors (the factory World Cab rear wall angles forward in the same way).

BTW, the FJ-40 ambulance doors are also the right height to fit in the Safari Cab rear door opening, but they're too wide - the FJ-40's rear door opening is about 6" wider than the Jeep's tailgate opening. Someone who wanted ambulance doors on a Safari Cab could narrow a set of FJ doors, either narrow both of them, or just narrow one of them like the old Izuzu Trooper split rear doors. And anyone who had the skill to do that could also "straighten" them in event I made the Safari Cab rear walls perfectly vertical instead of sloping them forward at the top like the FJ doors.

If anyone's got opinions about a vertical rear wall vs. sloping it forward slightly, let me know what you think.

 

[bigwalton]

The higher tops would surely appeal more to those who really used the back seats, or to those who needed extra room for camping/expedition usage.

Actually, as someone who's seen my daughter climb in and out of the rear seat hundreds of times, this is what has me rather perplexed about the utility of either of the taller roofs. For expedition type use where you're cramming in tons of gear, fine, but again, you're talking about very few people.

On the back seat access, the limiting factor is the roll bar with the sound bar, not the roof. Laura's just now to the height where she bumps it pretty often because she likes climbing over the console. Anyone who puts the front seat up to get in the back will be dealing purely with the sound bar. As I see it, the taller roof will do nothing for rear seat access except give you completely excessive rear seat headroom once you're seated. If I can get back there, I have plenty of headroom once seated as the seat is so low in the Jeep (I'm 6'6").

I suppose that if you wanted to try and raise that seat, you could make some use of extra headroom, but as they're all fold n tumble seats with rather complicated bracketry built into the floor, I don't realistically see anyone trying that unless they switched out for a CJ seat or something.

These higher roofs will just tower over the stock rollbar giving you no real use except for being able to pack more stuff into the back BUT you are still limited in the height of any one piece of the cargo by the lower height of the back door, which is identical from the low roof version to the tall roof versions. So you can't slide that 80" LED TV in because of the rear door even though it would fit under the tall top. So you're back to the expedition deal.

Outside of an expedition, how often are you really ever going to pack the rear of an LJ with stuff over the top of the rollbar? I can say that I have never had that need. One issue is that you have no divider between the cargo and the cab, so I'd be worried about it all staying in place on a hard stop anyway. Keep in mind that here again, you won't be able to use/access the space in the upper corners down the side of the top because the stock-height rollbar will be there blocking your access.

Here's some crappy cellphone pics to show what I'm talking about.

This shows the headroom above the back seat. it's WAY more than in any car and probably close to a minivan (talking about directly over your head when seated). However, a soon as you go to stand up, the sound bar is right in your face. As I see it, the tall tops will tower over that, but make no difference in getting into/out of the rear seat:

This is just another view of the roof above the sound bar.

This shows the space above the sides of the rollbar and the stock roof. I see no use to more space than this.

Here I was just trying to show the room to the side of the rollbar and the top. With more vertical sides, this gap gets bigger obviously, there's no real issue there as I see it more for styling than anything and doesn't make a difference in the overall amount of material/cost/weight (unlike the tall roof panel, which will require more material, cost and weigh more).

As a World Cab owner and seeing what that high weight does to the handling of the Scrambler, I'm quite worried (as I believe Matt mentioned before) what one of those tall roofed versions will do to the soft coil-sprung suspension on an LJ for the look with little to no functional return other than the expedition packing.

Jeff, for another design challenge, do you think you could do some interior mockups/views showing the spacing of the different tops with the rollbar in place?

 

[jscherb]

...Jeff, for another design challenge, do you think you could do some interior mockups/views showing the spacing of the different tops with the rollbar in place?

Eric,
Thanks for all the photos, they're a good illustration of your point.

To me it isn't so much about how much stuff you could pile in the back, it is more about style. And so far there aren't too opinions about which roofline style looks best, maybe nobody's interested in these tops

I'll be posting the different roofline photos on jeepforum tomorrow, let's see what reaction I get there.

Barring any unexpectedly positive reaction to a higher roofline there, I agree with you that the low roof is the right choice to build.

 

[Randyzzz]

I initially thought the raised portion would make a great place for a rifle rack... but how many of us have a real necessity for that...

I'm still liking the lower roof profile.

 

[4miles]

Vertical Rail

Jeff,
If you overlapped the windshield frame in the front like the scrambler top does and brought your drip rail to the top of the vertical rail to avoid a gap, couldn't you do away with the thin piece across the top of the windows. Incorporate where your door seals into the top and interlock your pillar with the curve to that. I seems structurally stronger. I say this cause I use half doors with hard uppers and they lean in and hit the top first to flex them back for a seal not sure if hard doors do the same and could see where the thin piece would have to hold up to some force. This would also match most of your drawings where the tops of the doors are just under the frame rail.

BTW I am in awe at everything that you do

 

[jscherb]

Jeff,
If you overlapped the windshield frame in the front like the scrambler top does and brought your drip rail to the top of the vertical rail to avoid a gap, couldn't you do away with the thin piece across the top of the windows. Incorporate where your door seals into the top and interlock your pillar with the curve to that. I seems structurally stronger. I say this cause I use half doors with hard uppers and they lean in and hit the top first to flex them back for a seal not sure if hard doors do the same and could see where the thin piece would have to hold up to some force. This would also match most of your drawings where the tops of the doors are just under the frame rail.
...

If I understand what you're written correctly, that small piece you're seeking to eliminate is actually required dimensionally to enable the same top to fit both the TJ's and the YJ/CJ's due to the differences in the top of the windshield frame. The top of the TJ windshield is slightly wider than the CJ windshield, so a top panel that fits over the CJ windshield won't fit over the TJ windshield. I looked in the Retro Wrangler archives for a photo to illustrate this and here's the best I've found, check out the bottom right photo of this grouping - see how the top panel doesn't fit all the way down over the windshield frame? That's because this is a CJ World Cab panel trying to fit over a TJ windshield frame. I may be able to do better than this when I fabricate my own roof panel, but I do still think there will need to be a little space above the doors to allow for this difference.

If I wasn't planning to build common parts to fit both TJ's and CJ's the way the roof panel could be done differently for each.

I do have a solution for the strength of that thin piece, though, it won't just be empty fiberglass waiting to crack.

Did I understand what you wrote correctly and does this answer the question?

 

[4miles]

Yes it does......It was hard to see on a small scale and I can see where you took care of the gap at the vertical rail. Thanks

 

[jscherb]

The low roof, accessorized

I don't claim that this is the most beautiful roof rack every designed, it's just something I threw together quickly.

 

[jscherb]

I like this one better.

 

[rstickley]

Now that is SWEET!

 

[Randyzzz]

I like the second version- looks great!

 

[Bugman]

I might be missing something on the two versions of tops (I'm just starting my second cup of coffee, forgive me). The only difference I can see is the roof rack. Both versions look great and I think that would be a part that would vary from owner to owner depending on what needs are to be met. Good point on the cargo space as the limiting factor would be the entry/exit sizes. Love the mock ups. I'll bet that after doing these, the real tops are going to be even more fun to do.

 

[jscherb]

... I'll bet that after doing these, the real tops are going to be even more fun to do.

Sure, if your idea of fun is:

- several weeks of exacting woodworking to build the mold masters, followed by

- several weeks of filling, smoothing and finishing to get the masters perfect, followed by

- several weeks of messy fiberglass work to make the molds, followed by

- maybe a week of work to correct minor imperfections in the molds, followed by

- a week or more of molding the first set of parts, followed by

- several weeks of finishing, paint prep and painting the first hardtop to come out of the mold,

and finally getting to see it all done so I can decide if all the effort was worthwhile.

Yup, sounds like fun to me!! (Actually, it does, I'm not being sarcastic)

 

[jscherb]

Here's Version 2.0 of the stepped roof. The high part is about 1.5" lower; the step angle is more gradual and the curves are softened a bit.

 

[jscherb]

And V2.0 of the stepped roof with a roof rack like the one in the concept drawings.

 

[gr8dain]

The racks are awesome and make the tops in my opinion. Btw, i like the 2.0 stepped roof better than the 1.0, but I like the flat roof the best overall. Since you asked for opinions. I am simply amazed by your workmanship, both in your models and the full scale vehicles.

 

[Truck]

Sorry for the slow reply on ACME profile. I don't know if still needed but here is what I had on my computer. If you want something better let me know and I will try and get a pic before dark this week.

Truck

 

[jscherb]

Sorry for the slow reply on ACME profile. I don't know if still needed but here is what I had on my computer. If you want something better let me know and I will try and get a pic before dark this week.

Truck

Those are great, thanks!

 

[jscherb]

The racks are awesome and make the tops in my opinion. Btw, i like the 2.0 stepped roof better than the 1.0, but I like the flat roof the best overall. Since you asked for opinions. I am simply amazed by your workmanship, both in your models and the full scale vehicles.

I'm liking the flat one best too.

And thanks for your comment on my work