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Another Scrambler Purchase/Road Trip - UPDATE- BODY ON FRAME AGAIN

spankrjs said:
The Mopar MT fluid I used is similar to the Syncromesh/Amsoil. In fact, they are approved equals for the Mopar stuff. This stuff burnt in the first T5. Smelled slightly burned, discolored, no "oily feel" left, felt like water:shrug:

On the NWC T5, there is not a 100% clear cut factory approved fluid, EXCEPT the AMC stuff, which Penzoil says there Synromesh is an equal, which I failed in the first T5:(
Click to expand...

Not sure this has been discussed before, but it's interesting.

http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm

Especially this part:

Transmission Fluid
BorgWarner allowed each manufacturer to choose the lubricant for its particular application, but it seems that BorgWarner's recommendation was Dexron-II ATF from the very beginning. GM adopted the Dexron, as proven by the stickers placed on each transmission. Ford adopted Dexron as their official fluid, as proven by specifying the ATF product in their original 1983 and 1984 Field Service Manual publications. For some reason, AMC chose to continue specifying gear oil instead of ATF. The early style of Dexron is no longer available. Generic ATF such as DEX/MERC is a suitable substitute. A Ford dealer will recommend their Mercon-V ATF which is also a good substitute.

Many Internet sources insist that gear oil should be used in the Non-World Class T-5, but the documentation above clearly reveals that both Ford and GM chose to use ATF from the start. Using gear oil in a Non-World Class transmission will not significantly damage the transmission, but many times, due to Internet confusion as to what is, and is not, a World Class T-5, gear oil has been mistakenly used in the World Class units.

Update on Dexron VS Gear oil for NON-World Class T-5's:
Dexron-III ATF replaced Dexron-II in 1993. While Dexron-III meets or exceeds the previous specifications, the viscocity of Dexron-III is thinner than the original Dexron-II that was specified for the NON-World Class T-5. This thinner fluid is fine for the World Class T-5 with the lined synchro rings, but the NON-World Class T-5 with the brass synchro rings needs a thicker fluid to work optimally. As a result, Tremec has specified 30W MOTOR OIL for the NON-World Class T-5's. While Tremec has not published an official document about this, it is confirmed by an email dated 1/9/2012 from a Tremec Engineering/Support employee.

WARNING: Using gear oil or motor oil in a T-5 with the composite lined blocker rings found in the World Class T-5's will destroy the blocker ring linings over a period of a few months rendering those synchronizers useless.

Raymond, how does this compare to your research?
 
wm69 said:
OUCH. I know the feeling. I busted an SE 8274 top cover trying to gently pry it off a couple years ago. Nothing like busting something that can't easily or cheaply be replaced or repaired!

I would love to see details on the shifter rebuild though. I have a T176 in the shop that I plan on going through before swapping it in for the T5 that is currently in my tan CJ-7.

Who made the replacement forks you ordered and how do they look compared to the Crown/Omix that you were so disappointed in (I remember the comparison of the aftermarket vs OEM you showed).
Click to expand...

I am not sure who made the forks, I ordered them from a place called "All State Gear". I am still waiting on the new cover, so no update yet, but :fingerscrossed: they are better then the China crap. I am hoping to get some time this weekend to at least put on the "borrowed" top piece:thumbsup:

FLCJ8 said:
Not sure this has been discussed before, but it's interesting.

http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm

Especially this part:

Transmission Fluid
BorgWarner allowed each manufacturer to choose the lubricant for its particular application, but it seems that BorgWarner's recommendation was Dexron-II ATF from the very beginning. GM adopted the Dexron, as proven by the stickers placed on each transmission. Ford adopted Dexron as their official fluid, as proven by specifying the ATF product in their original 1983 and 1984 Field Service Manual publications. For some reason, AMC chose to continue specifying gear oil instead of ATF. The early style of Dexron is no longer available. Generic ATF such as DEX/MERC is a suitable substitute. A Ford dealer will recommend their Mercon-V ATF which is also a good substitute.

Many Internet sources insist that gear oil should be used in the Non-World Class T-5, but the documentation above clearly reveals that both Ford and GM chose to use ATF from the start. Using gear oil in a Non-World Class transmission will not significantly damage the transmission, but many times, due to Internet confusion as to what is, and is not, a World Class T-5, gear oil has been mistakenly used in the World Class units.

Update on Dexron VS Gear oil for NON-World Class T-5's:
Dexron-III ATF replaced Dexron-II in 1993. While Dexron-III meets or exceeds the previous specifications, the viscocity of Dexron-III is thinner than the original Dexron-II that was specified for the NON-World Class T-5. This thinner fluid is fine for the World Class T-5 with the lined synchro rings, but the NON-World Class T-5 with the brass synchro rings needs a thicker fluid to work optimally. As a result, Tremec has specified 30W MOTOR OIL for the NON-World Class T-5's. While Tremec has not published an official document about this, it is confirmed by an email dated 1/9/2012 from a Tremec Engineering/Support employee.

WARNING: Using gear oil or motor oil in a T-5 with the composite lined blocker rings found in the World Class T-5's will destroy the blocker ring linings over a period of a few months rendering those synchronizers useless.

Raymond, how does this compare to your research?
Click to expand...

I drained the fluid out of my green Scramblers T5, and it was the same fluid I drained out of a lower mileage T176/Dana 300, this weird "red/smelly stuff". So, I sent some to a lab for analysis:

https://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthread.php?23045-spankrjs-s-Biloxi-MS-83-Scrambler/page5

Gear oil:thumbsup:
 
Been bouncing around between this Scrambler and the tan Scrambler, but a little forward progress:thumbsup:

I carefully scraped the old RTV off the transmission, taking great pains not to knock any junk inside the transmission. I also ground down the top of the case where the metal got damaged while removing the cover. All clean now, and nice and flat.

IMAG2734_zpsfe4481b0-1.jpg



Cleaning the top of the case was easy, cleaning out the threaded holes without dropping gunk inside the transmission was a bit harder. But, I ran a tap through the holes, while holding a plastic bottle lid underneath to catch the debris. Worked great, just a bit aggravating.

IMAG2731_zps5c9dbefa-1.jpg



I have been soaking my "borrowed" top shifter housing in a bucket of water, to loosen up the caked on crud, seems to be working pretty good.

IMAG2737_zps3d697229-1.jpg



I plan on getting the top shifter housing cleaned tonight, then I will let it dry for a day. Then, reassembly.

That's it for now.
 
Well, the place I ordered the replacement T176 shifter housing dropped the ball. They don't have one in stock, but they can get me a made in China replacement for $200:angry::(:banghead:

So, I ordered a used replacement off of eBay, so the waiting game begins again:rolleyes:

That was strike 1 for yesterday:shrug:
 
I finally finished cleaning up my "borrowed" T176 top plate. This unit came off of a used transmission, but appears to be in great shape. It cleaned up really well.

IMAG2761_zps7f9e9931-1.jpg


IMAG2763_zps6a5125ef-1.jpg



Even the brass shift fork hole is in good shape:

IMAG2762_zps45a39e39-1.jpg



I thought I had a gasket in the garage for this top piece, but I don't. Not sure I am even going to bolt this part on, since my new used one should be coming in soon. It would be a waste of time to bolt this one on, put the Scrambler back together, just to have to remove it all again two days later.


That's it for now,
 
My new to me used T176 top cover came in the mail yesterday, hope to get it put on soon:thumbsup:

Today, a pretty sweet box arrived, but none of that until I get the T176 back together:D

IMAG2807_zps5b7d5b6b-1.jpg



Need to hurry up and get it installed before Moab:wave:
 
I'm pretty sure i know what that is!!! :D:D:D:D
 
A few quick pictures of my "new to me/used" top cover. After a quick inspection, it looks to be in really good shape. I think I am just going to quickly clean it up and bolt it on. The shift forks look to be in really good shape, especially the one that usually gets "wallowed" out, and results in shifter handle slop.

IMAG2808_zps6f22575f-1.jpg


IMAG2815_zps4eb55766-1.jpg



The shifter forks all have numbers cast into them, making me believe that this top unit is all stock.

IMAG2812_zpsc56daaab-1.jpg


IMAG2809_zps8dd9c030-1.jpg


IMAG2810_zpsbc362572-1.jpg



And my favorite picture:

IMAG2814_zps8501a6da-1.jpg



The square slots are still square. I found it interesting that this shifter fork has the steel insert inside of it, unlike my old one, which is all soft yellow metal. Maybe this was a running change? I know the made in China crap ones are like this, but I never had any luck with them.

Plan on cleaning it up tonight, bolting it on, then testing it out.

That's it for now.
 
jims chop shop said:
? What's up with your pics ?


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...

Too cheap to buy the "updated" account, so, once my pictures have been viewed X amount of times a month, it "exceeds my bandwidth". They should start working again in a week or two:ZZZ:
 
Lol I thought it was my phone.lol. I was about to go on the app store to find a upgrade lol

Sent from my SPH-L900
 
I was able to clean up and inspect my "new to me used shifter housing" this weekend.

IMAG2823_zps6bf26b16-1.jpg


IMAG2824_zpsafc4a835-1.jpg


IMAG2825_zpsf1cdae88-1.jpg



The top cleaned up great, but more importantly, it has very minimum wear, especially where the shifter handle goes. So, I installed this top "as is", I did not install the replacement shift forks. The way my luck has been going lately, just wasn't worth it.

I installed the top Friday night, took the Jeep for a drive on Saturday, and it works perfectly. No more slop in the shifter.

This will be my last T176 update, due to this:

IMAG2828_zpsb542ce16-1.jpg



That's it for now:wave:
 
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I am waiting for rain to clear the roads down here of salt. Once that happens, I am going to drive the Scrambler while it still has the T176 in it. I have drove it around the neighborhood, and so far works great.

But, the T176's lack of overdrive will not work for me:(

So, I purchased this:

IMAG2828_zpsb542ce16-1.jpg



It is a brand new AX15, with the 4.3:1 First gear ratio. It already has a front adapter bolted on, so it will bolt right to my T176 bellhousing. On the rear, it already has a clocking ring for the Dana 300. So, besides a pilot bushing swap, it will bolt right in.

But, I will still need to figure out/fabricate:

Driveshafts
Shifter(s)
Transmission Mount
Reverse Light Wiring

Hope to start this swap in the next few weeks.

That's it for now:wave:
 
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HEY!!! you're not popular anymore!! I can see your pics again!

Thats purdy!
 
Bad Karma said:
HEY!!! you're not popular anymore!! I can see your pics again!

Thats purdy!
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm no longer one of the "cool kids":(:shrug:

It is kind of strange dealing with something "new", I am used to old stuff I have to clean and rebuild:rotfl:

jims chop shop said:
That's nice. !!(smart to. !)
One of these days I'll smarten up
And stop hurting myself
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Yep, three T5's in 16,000 miles, they just wont hold up in this Scrambler:twocents:

I'll keep the T5 in my green stockish Scrambler, should be fine:fingerscrossed::twocents:

Might have been a "smart" move on my part, but "hurt" the pocket book:crazy::thumbsup:
 
Well, I completely understand , but I need to learn to take my profits from hurting myself and spend some of it to save me some time and aggravation, instead of having to do this
u3u6ygun-1.jpg



 
Where did you get the AX 15 from? I am thinking I may need to do this in the near future...
 
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