Another Scrambler Purchase/Road Trip - UPDATE- BODY ON FRAME AGAIN

wm69

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Yes, from the factory, the T176 equipped Jeeps have a different Dana 300 shifter. A stock T5 one wont work/fit right. A T5/auto Dana 300 shifter "might" work, maybe with bending, not sure:shrug:

Jeep used all different types of shifters for the Dana 300 depending on transmission/year - I currently have the T176, T5, Auto, and an early version, possibly from an SR4, it is really tall:shrug:

Unfortunately, I do not have any extra T176 Dana 300 shifter handles:(
So the T5 and TF999 equipped Dana 300 shifters were the same? If so, I'm golden. I'll use my T5 Tcase shifter on the TF999 tcase, and use my T176 Tcase shifter with my T176. I know my T5 driveshafts will work with the TF999 so that keeps me from buying new driveshafts.
 

jerseyjeeps

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Yes there are many many 300 shifters! The auto one appears standalone. FYI this is from the 81-86 book and doesn't include the long tall handle 1980 applications bringing even more possibilities to the mix. :eek:

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1376935476.031613.jpg
 

spankrjs

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So the T5 and TF999 equipped Dana 300 shifters were the same? If so, I'm golden. I'll use my T5 Tcase shifter on the TF999 tcase, and use my T176 Tcase shifter with my T176. I know my T5 driveshafts will work with the TF999 so that keeps me from buying new driveshafts.
NO - Automatics and T5's use different shifters, NOT the same shifter:(

Yes there are many many 300 shifters! The auto one appears standalone. FYI this is from the 81-86 book and doesn't include the long tall handle 1980 applications bringing even more possibilities to the mix. :eek:

View attachment 36108
YES - what he said, many different shifters depending on transmission/year:thumbsup:
 

spankrjs

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And finished installing the T176 back into the Scrambler:thumbsup:




I drove the Scrambler some this weekend, and everything seems to be good. But, no overdrive means that my "max" speed is between 65-70MPH at around 2,600RPM:( I got used to 75-80MPH at that speed.

I am going to keep track of the MPG with my "new" set up. If the MPG at 70mph with no overdrive is the same as 80 mph with overdrive, it might be not be worth the money to swap in a different OD transmission:twocents:

I never drove this Scrambler with this combo - 33's/T176/4.10 gears.
I swapped the T5 in before I switched to the 33's.

The axle gears/transmission ratios/tire size works well IMO. But, the lack of overdrive does suck:(

I have no doubt the T176 is a much stronger transmission then the T5's I am replacing. Hell, if I get over 16,000 miles on one T176 I will be way ahead:rotfl:

The only thing I do not like about the T176's is the shifter - they suck. Not going to sugar coat it. They are "sloppy"/long throw shifting transmissions. All of my shifter parts are in excellent shape - shifter itself, shifter housing, springs and detent balls, shift rails and forks, shifter pins, retaining spring and cup, etc. But, the way this thing works, it is just not a crisp shifting transmission. The metal ended shifter fits into the square notched shifter forks/rail. The notches are large, so there is a bunch of dead space that you have to move through before it starts to shifts. I wish there was a way to "tighten" this up, but I don't thinks there is :shrug: It shifts fine and does not grind or anything, but it sure does not shift like the B&M shifter equipped T5 it is replacing. But, it works.

I don't plan on doing anything else to this Scrambler for awhile, except drive it. Time to get back to work on the CA/Tan "Yard Scrambler":thumbsup:

That's it for now:wave:
 

Bad Karma

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You will spend the money and swap in an overdrive tranny soon. Driving slow on the highway sucks.
 

spankrjs

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What is the limit you gave of 2600 rpm? I been running almost 3k for 70 mph on my 258/t4/3.73 on 32s. Is this a problem (other than mileage)?
No "real" reason to limit, but on the 4.2, it seems like any RPM over about 2700 RPM is just wasting gas. The 4.0's seem to make most of there power around 3K, I ran my TJ at that RPM for 150,000 miles without any issues. On the 4.2, just seems like it starts to "run out of steam" at that RPM, well at least when I had the OD transmission. With the T176, it will pull hard over 2600 RPM, but just seems to be spinning at bit too high for my long, cross country trips:twocents::shrug:

You will spend the money and swap in an overdrive tranny soon. Driving slow on the highway sucks.
Yep, I know, probably swap in a NV3550 sometime next year:thumbsup:
 

tower210

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Many of us may follow you down that foxhole for a NV3550. I'm sure we would all be very interested in your process to source or select the trans in addition to the actual install.
 

wm69

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The metal ended shifter fits into the square notched shifter forks/rail. The notches are large, so there is a bunch of dead space that you have to move through before it starts to shifts. I wish there was a way to "tighten" this up, but I don't thinks there is :shrug: It shifts fine and does not grind or anything, but it sure does not shift like the B&M shifter equipped T5 it is replacing. But, it works.


That's it for now:wave:
I have a B&M equipped T5 in the tan Jeep and it does almost shift like a car, BUT I will be swapping in a T176 in the near future. Dad's Scrambler was bought new and the T176 in that one is nice and crisp when shifting, but I know from my much more worn Jeeps that wear makes the T176 shifting much less pleasant over time.

I traded my extra T176 for two TF999's a while back, and the guy I traded with put new shift forks in and said that helped a lot (he had to remove some metal to make them work). I'm wondering if the ball on the end of the shifter could be slightly enlarged (maybe build it up a bit with a welder) to make it a tighter fit?

I'm going to go through my T176 before I do the swap and was hoping to get it where it shifts like the old man's Jeep. I figure it will take a lot of work to get it shifting like his with all 4200 miles on it.
 

spankrjs

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I have a B&M equipped T5 in the tan Jeep and it does almost shift like a car, BUT I will be swapping in a T176 in the near future. Dad's Scrambler was bought new and the T176 in that one is nice and crisp when shifting, but I know from my much more worn Jeeps that wear makes the T176 shifting much less pleasant over time.

I traded my extra T176 for two TF999's a while back, and the guy I traded with put new shift forks in and said that helped a lot (he had to remove some metal to make them work). I'm wondering if the ball on the end of the shifter could be slightly enlarged (maybe build it up a bit with a welder) to make it a tighter fit?

I'm going to go through my T176 before I do the swap and was hoping to get it where it shifts like the old man's Jeep. I figure it will take a lot of work to get it shifting like his with all 4200 miles on it.
Yes, the shift forks do wear out where the shifter ball piece fits. The aftermarket forks do not work. I tried that earlier in this thread. NOS ones might be the only easy way to go, but they will be hard to find. The aftermarket fork I had was made incorrectly in multiple planes, no way to get it to work without a ton of work, and even then, it would be sketchy:shrug:

IIRC, my shifter forks are still good, not wore funny, I guess it is mainly the transition from the B&M equipped T5 to the T176:twocents::shrug::thumbsup:

Around post #475:

http://www.cj-8.com/forum/showthrea...ATE-BODY-ON-FRAME-AGAIN/page32&highlight=T176

Details my previous run in with "replacement" T176 shifter forks:banghead:
 
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wm69

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Yep, sounds about right. He said he had to do a lot of work to make it fit. He seemed to think it was designed oversize to allow it to be ground down for a tight fit. Anyhow, China junk is China junk.

The shift rebuild kits (cup, spring) are crap too. I put one in my T176 and the cup fingers that hold it down bent like the ones in your picture. Looking at the OEM cup the fingers were much thicker and sturdier so they wouldn't bend. I ended up using the OEM cup with a new spring and boot. Is definitely much better, but not quite like the old man's T176 (course you're looking at 116K hard miles vs 4200 easy miles)
 

spankrjs

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Went on the first "long" road trip in the Scrambler since I swapped the T176 back in, Biloxi, MS to Hawk Pride ORV near Tuscambia, AL, about 370 miles. Surprisingly, it wasn't "terrible" on the highway, 65-70mph at 2800 RPM getting 15mpg (33's/4.10/no OD). Not as good as the T5, but OK. Biggest thing, I miss being able to drive faster. But until I decide/acquire a stronger OD manual transmission, the T176 will do fine. I am still waiting on some new shift forks for my T176, to hopefully tighten up the shifter some, but it works and shifts fine. Just a little "pet-peeve" of mine:rolleyes:

My group briefly saw George and a few other "big Scramblers", so the CJ8's were well represented this weekend. My group consisted of JK's (33"-37" tires), a TJ on 39's, and a Toyota on 39's. We ran all easy-moderate trails, for two days, and everyone had fun. We lost one BFG KM2 to a torn sidewall, upper control arm bolt off the TJ, rear spring issues with the TJ, flopped the Toyota on its side (busted windshield, no injuries or major damage), busted the rear drive shaft on the TJ (getting way too happy with the throttle "hopping" on one of the harder obstacles), a few "JK Rubicon Lockers not wanting to always work issue (which seems common), and a JK transfer case cable shifter linkage doo-dad (shifted back to 2wd for the ride home by manually shifting the transfer case from underneath the Jeep). The TJ and the Toyota were brought in on trailers, so they had no problems getting home:thumbsup:

I came to Hawk Pride right after I built this Scrambler, when it had 35's. I did not have fun, it was way too tipsy. This time around, with the 33's, I had a blast. The Scrambler was very stable, it never really felt like I was about to flip it over. So all in all, I am much happier with the 33's. If I was wider, 35's would be OK, but I am happy with what I have. I did get stuck in the mud, where 35's might have helped, but the the tradeoff in stability for the little bit of clearance just isn't worth it:twocents:

The Scrambler did great at Hawk Pride. I only got stuck once, in the mud, on the last trail we hit, in deep ruts that required 35" or larger tires to clear. I did not take any pictures, too busy driving, but I will post them up here as I get them.

Here is one:




I need to finish cleaning it up, and inspect it for any issues, but it should be fine.

I now have 17,000 miles on this Scrambler, so lots of trail riding and highway driving, and lots of fun. Besides the T5's blowing up, the only other issues I need to address:

1) I need to replace the axle u-bolts. I have smashed the bottoms of them (didn't trim them after I installed them, my fault) so they are boogered. I have also "re-used" them, so they tend to get a hair loose, easy fix. The front driver side tends to get a little crooked, I think due to the unused factory steering stabilizer bracket. Since I don't run a stabilizer, I will remove this piece when I swap out the u-bolts.

2) The front spring main eye bushings are tore. I guess all the flexing finally did them in. They are still "OK", but I can hear a "metal on metal" squeak every once in awhile. When I change the U-bolts, I will install new bushings.


I hope to post up some more "ride pictures" soon, but that's it for now:wave:
 
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MrBeep

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Still shaking the sand out of it? :bacon:

Good to see it back on the trails. Did miss it at Sand Blast 6 though. Doing any "Driver Training"? :wave:
 

spankrjs

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Appreciate it:cheers: Is your red one ready to go yet:ZZZ::ZZZ:

Still shaking the sand out of it? :bacon:

Good to see it back on the trails. Did miss it at Sand Blast 6 though. Doing any "Driver Training"? :wave:
Yep, felt good to make it somewhere and back successfully without blowing up a transmission:rotfl:

Most of the sand has blown out:thumbsup: No drivers ed on this trip, little too tough (terrain/nerves/vehicle):D
 
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Mount Victory
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It took almost 2 weeks of reading at work to get to the end! Great build and nice pics.

Must be single. lol To spend all that dough and time on this beautiful CJ8. My wife and kids take up all my Jeep time.

Anyways I enjoyed reading your story!
 

spankrjs

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It took almost 2 weeks of reading at work to get to the end! Great build and nice pics.

Must be single. lol To spend all that dough and time on this beautiful CJ8. My wife and kids take up all my Jeep time.

Anyways I enjoyed reading your story!
Glad you enjoyed it:thumbsup::cheers:

And yes, no wife or kids, that's why I was able to complete this fairly quickly, and can still work on it/take it cross country pretty regularly:thumbsup::wave:
 

spankrjs

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It has been awhile, but finally decided to do a "little" bit of work to this one, which of course turned into an ordeal:crazy:

My T176 shifts a bit sloppy, due to the wear in the top of the shift forks where the shifter rides. I tried to use the Crown/Omix Adda junk before, and it does not work. So, I ordered the two shift fork things from All State Gear, hopefully they will work. I ordered NOS shift retaining spring/cap/seal form Collins Brothers, they were selling them for pretty cheap on eBay awhile back.

Picture of the parts:










So, I pulled the carpet back, removed the shifter, pulled the cover plate off, and removed all the bolts. Well, the top lid of the transmission would not come off. I tried tapping on it with a plastic mallet, used a block of wood and a hammer to try to beat it loose, no dice. So I finally resorted to trying to gently pry it off.

EPIC FAIL:




If you have ever tried to remove a T176 cover, while it is still in the Jeep, it is a pain to try to pry it off. About the only place you can get to it is on the passenger side rear corner, while sitting under the Jeep and using a long screw driver to go over the top of the 300. Due to this fact, maybe this corner had a hairline crack, not sure. The above mentioned piece that broke off is small, and if it would have only broke there, I would have reused it, But, if you look close in the above picture, you will see that the whole flange on that side is bending.

By the time I got the cover off, a large piece broke off, upper left corner of the top piece that is on the left:



But, I located a used top piece that I am "temporarily borrowing", I ordered a new top piece this morning from All State Gear. The used assembly came out of a low mile CJ-7, and besides some aluminum oxidation on the outside, appears to be in great mechanical shape, and the shifter slots are still square and tight!!



I am going to clean up the used piece, and temporarily install it so I can get the Scrambler moving again. Once I get the new top cover piece in, I will install my new forks/other parts off the broke cover, and install the new assembly.

I am going to just use a paper gasket on the "borrowed" top piece, I do not want to break it when I remove it.

On the broke cover, I used regular black RTV, I think "Ultra Black", but I have NEVER had anything stick that permenant before???

This is a bunch of work to do, considering this T176 is about to go on the shelf, but I want it complete. I am going to have to put another over drive transmission in this Jeep before the Moab trip, but it is not going to be another T5!!!!

That's it for now:wave:
 

wm69

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OUCH. I know the feeling. I busted an SE 8274 top cover trying to gently pry it off a couple years ago. Nothing like busting something that can't easily or cheaply be replaced or repaired!

I would love to see details on the shifter rebuild though. I have a T176 in the shop that I plan on going through before swapping it in for the T5 that is currently in my tan CJ-7.

Who made the replacement forks you ordered and how do they look compared to the Crown/Omix that you were so disappointed in (I remember the comparison of the aftermarket vs OEM you showed).
 
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