Another Scrambler Purchase/Road Trip - UPDATE- BODY ON FRAME AGAIN

[spankrjs]

I put some non-detergent straight 30w engine oil in the transmission last night and it got a little bit quieter. I think the only reason it got quieter was because this oil was still oil, unlike the broke down stuff that came out If I can't find any 50w or 70w gear oil today, I am just going to put some Valvoline High Performance 80-90w Gear Oil in it to see what it does. The Valvoline stuff is safe for the "soft/yellow metal" parts, not all gear oil is.

I drove my Green Scrambler some last night, and the T5 in it makes similar noises. That T5 has ATF in it, and about 123,000 miles. Maybe it is common for all T5's to be a little bit noisy

It's not a "bad" noise, but you can definitely hear everything turning in the transmission. I might be making it sound worse then it really is. You have to "listen" to hear the sounds/noise But, I do know this transmission was silent for the first 10,000 miles, I find it hard to believe that suddenly noticing this sound can be a good thing

 

[MN-Paul]

I have a T5 getting rebuilt right now. Woundering what the correct fluid is? I have heard you need the correct fluid in them.

Keep us posted on what you put in or fluid.

 

[spankrjs]

I have a T5 getting rebuilt right now. Woundering what the correct fluid is? I have heard you need the correct fluid in them.

Keep us posted on what you put in or fluid.

Unfortunately, there is no "correct" fluid for these Different people will say different things, even AMC

I have the 82 FSM with 83 supplement, this is what it says:

Front of book, General Maintenance Section, and the T5 Transmission section says to use Dextron II.
The 83 Supplement information says to use 85-90w GL5 gear oil.
A service bulletin behind the supplement section says to use only AMC/Jeep/Renault Manual Transmission Fluid, Part#8983000000
I also have a 1984 service bulletin, attached to the T4/T5 rebuild manual, and it says it is OK to top off with 85-90w, and to even fill one up with 85-90w, IF the approved AMC 8983000000 is not available. It gives a different part # for Canadian vehicles The Mopar stuff that I used is supposedly a factory approved replacement for the AMC stuff, but it sucked the big one in mine after 10,000 miles


Some people use ATF, some people use gear oil, some people use synthetic stuff, some people use Syncromesh, some people use motor oil. I know my Green '83 has ATF in it, and I know that my buddy ran 80-90w gear oil in a CJ-7 for 5+ years while doing daily driving with it, and had no problems

Unfortunately, I can't/wont give you an answer on what to use I would use whatever the guy who is warranting the work tells you to use

I could maybe see the "heavier stuff" being a little bit harder to shift when cold/cold environments, until it warms up. Down here where i live, that is not a concern

 

[MN-Paul]

I have heard of T5's wearing out faster with (differant) fluids. I'm going to call around to see what people are putting in them. I want mine to last like everone else. I have a T176 and want overdrive.

 

[spankrjs]

I have heard of T5's wearing out faster with (differant) fluids. I'm going to call around to see what people are putting in them. I want mine to last like everone else. I have a T176 and want overdrive.

Post up whatever lubricant recommendations you get

I went from a T176 to the T5, and if they are only going to last me 10,000 miles, I guess I have two choices:

1) Switch to something else (back to T176, NV3500,AX15)
2) Buy a few more T5's to rebuild and just change them out every 3 oil changes

I do like the T5, they shift nice and smooth, the ratios are good, small and compact. But, I need to find out what is the matter with mine, I don't think a fluid change is going to make a difference in mine right now

 

[wm69]

I've been running 85-90 gear oil in mine since I bought it in 93. Granted I bought it with 29K on it and it only has about 80K on it now, but those were some HARD miles. No issues yet. Have a T177 to drop in before long. Don't need the OD for my use and I like the T176/T177 better.

 

[MN-Paul]

I have wheeled one of my past jeeps, 4.2 with a T5. 33" tires. It never gave me a problem. That is why I'm going with another one to put in.

A T176 reminds me of a farmall tractor. Big shift pattern.

 

[spankrjs]

After spending all day Saturday working on "Project Yard Scrambler", I spent Saturday night pulling the T5 out of my red Scrambler. I tried 30 weight motor oil, gear oil, and ATF, and it still makes noise. Surprisingly, it was quietest with ATF!!!

Anyway, I kind of figured a fluid change would not be a "magic bullet", and the noises were gradually getting worse.

Something is missing!!

There it is!! Big transmission jack makes this kind of work easy.

Good thing I have a "spare" rebuilt T5 ready to go!!!

And installed.

I was surprised how much Michigan sand I still found under my Scrambler!!!! Anyway, the swap went smoothly, except one captured nut inside the frame that holds the skid plate broke free. I was able to drop a bolt through the original hole, problem solved. Other then that, no problems.

After the swap, I backed the Scrambler out of my garage. Upon initial start up, I heard noises similar to the "bad" T5. But, after several seconds, the noise stopped. I believe it was just the bearings "talking" until the lube got to them. Anyway, after that, the transmission quieted down. This T5 was made up of a high mileage T5 with parts from a third T5. While driving in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears, there is a slight "gear whine" present. I guess this is to be expected, due to the wear that was present to the face of the gears. But, besides the slight "gear whine", this T5 functions fine. No "bad noise" like the pulled T5 was making. I am currently using ATF inside the "spare T5", a switch to a thicker lubricant MIGHT quiet the whine down some, but it currently sounds kind of cool

I still need to do an autopsy on the pulled T5 to figure out what happened.


One last picture, the red Scrambler has had a hard/fun first 10,000 miles.

No one can accuse me of "babying" this thing

That's it for now.

 

[MrBeep]

You may still find sand in the next century. Ain't it grand!

 

[bigwalton]

You may still find sand in the next century. Ain't it grand!

The odd thing is that I'll vacuum mine out and then the sand comes back without having been back to the Dunes.

I think it's the dunes way of trying to multiply and make more dunes all around the state/country

 

[MrBeep]

The odd thing is that I'll vacuum mine out and then the sand comes back without having been back to the Dunes.

I think it's the dunes way of trying to multiply and make more dunes all around the state/country

ERIC... SHHHHHH... It's supposed to be a secret!

 

[MrBeep]

Raymond, there is no way anyone that has seen the "Red" Scrambler in action would accuse you of "babying" it. Enjoying it to the up-most of it's ability is more appropriate.

 

[SeeJayAte]

The odd thing is that I'll vacuum mine out and then the sand comes back without having been back to the Dunes.

I think it's the dunes way of trying to multiply and make more dunes all around the state/country

ERIC... SHHHHHH... It's supposed to be a secret!

You're right Toby, we need to keep this quiet! Otherwise, the state will have checkpoints at the border inspecting all Jeeps for traces of Silver Lake "gold" hidden thruout. My guess is anything over a couple of grams will get you busted!

 

[spankrjs]

You may still find sand in the next century. Ain't it grand!

The odd thing is that I'll vacuum mine out and then the sand comes back without having been back to the Dunes.

I think it's the dunes way of trying to multiply and make more dunes all around the state/country

ERIC... SHHHHHH... It's supposed to be a secret!

Raymond, there is no way anyone that has seen the "Red" Scrambler in action would accuse you of "babying" it. Enjoying it to the up-most of it's ability is more appropriate.

You're right Toby, we need to keep this quiet! Otherwise, the state will have checkpoints at the border inspecting all Jeeps for traces of Silver Lake "gold" hidden thruout. My guess is anything over a couple of grams will get you busted!

I really spent a bunch of time cleaning the Scrambler when I made it back home, plus I drove through rain for about 5 hours straight on the way home from Michigan. The sand fell out the skid plate attaching bolt holes from inside the frame, plus it was stuck to the transmission/transfer case. I had to spend some time getting it off of the front output shaft seal, figured it would eventually tear that seal up and cause a leak!!!

I like your description Toby :-)


Hopefully I can get more then 10,000 miles out of this T5 !?!?!?!?!?!

Or, i can just keep rebuilding them and rotate them out every 9,000 miles!!!!!

If this one blows, I will rebuild the current one that is currently on the floor and install it again. If it blows, I will reinstall my T176 that is currently on the shelf. If it goes so far as to reinstall the T176, i might have to start shopping/researching an AX15/NV3500 swap, I need an overdrive transmission due to all my highway driving, and i don't quite want an NV4500 yet, I kind of like the lighter duty transmission driving characteristics, IF I can get one to hold up to my driving/abuse/use ???

 

[Bad Karma]

I noticed the sand a couple weeks ago... I vacuumed out the Jeep, drove it and later that day there was almost as much sand in it as there was before!!
Like you guys said, better keep it quiet. I dont want to have to pay duty on it when I cross the border!!!

 

[spankrjs]

I started my T5 autopsy last night. After removing the rear case half and the top plate, here is what I found:

Everything looks fine. No broke gears, chipped teeth, funny marks, blue colored parts, nothing. The input shaft/main shaft and overdrive gears, and supporting bearings all look/feel fine.

After pulling the main shaft I was able to gain access to the counter shaft, located at the bottom of the transmission.

It looks good, and the magnet on the bottom of the case is clean. BUT, I noticed that there is some slight "up and down" movement of the counter shaft at the rear of the case. There is no "in and out" movement, just some "up/down" movement. I do not think there is supposed to be any play here at all. The counter shaft spins freely, BUT the bearings are "noisy". I would think that is should be almost silent while spinning it by hand. I can't remember there being any noise when I installed the counter shaft and turned it by hand?

I quit pulling the transmission apart to go watch football, so i will pull the counter shaft out tonight and update what I find tomorrow.

That's it for now.

 

[spankrjs]

I finished my T5 autopsy last night. I was hoping to find some kind of cool, dramatic, catastrophic failure resulting in an orgy of metal shrapnel dancing around the magnet in the bottom of the case, but no suck luck

The failure I found looks to be more the result of a cheap a$$, made in China, piss poor casting/heat treating of the cluster gear

A picture of what the machined surface which rides on the front bearing is supposed to look like, nice and smooth:

And what part of it looks like:

This is the "problem" that was causing the slight slack and the resulting low roar noise I was hearing. There is no fixing this.

I am on the hunt now for a good used original T5 counter gear, not another crappy made in China replacement.

All of the other components inside the transmission look just like the day I reinstalled them 10,000 miles ago. So far, the T5 seems to be holding up to my level of "use/HP" just fine. I am going to blame this problem on a defectively made part, not necessarily a weakness of the T5. If the same thing happens to any transmission, T5, NV4500, T18, NP435, etc, you will have problems.

Until I obtain another cluster gear, that's it for now on this T5

 

[MrBeep]

I realize that the Swap meet here in Cleves Oct. 6&7 is a tad bit faf for you to drive, so those of us fortunate enough to be there will see if we can locate one for you.

 

[MN-Paul]

Another lesson learned. I hope you find a good one or a PERFECT replacement one that is not china made. If you find a NON-Overseas replacement let us know. I would say your 4 wheelin style should not blow a T5.

Making me excited to get mine back.

Good Luck.

 

[spankrjs]

I realize that the Swap meet here in Cleves Oct. 6&7 is a tad bit faf for you to drive, so those of us fortunate enough to be there will see if we can locate one for you.

Appreciate it greatly Mr. Beep

If you find a good used one for decent $$$, I will take it for sure

You have my number, let me know