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Scrambler insurance

mssldn said:
Scott_P,
As a soon to be "SLIMY LAWYER" (I’m taking the Bar for the first time in Feb) and a former Michigan resident, I am going to have agree with bigwalton here. I started to write this big long post of all the problems you could have, but it got lost somehow and was probably interesting only to me. I will be brief this time, because here is what it boils down to: UNRELATED breaches can drastically affect your coverage.

Here’s the Reader’s Digest version:
• The insurance company thinks they are insuring an on-road only vehicle
• Excluded from coverage is, "any vehicles used for camping, off-road or utility-type driving."
• It seems that you may fit that exclusion. I know I do. What else do you use a Jeep for?
• The burden of proof is not that high in civil court and can be even lower in arbitration. (Meaning it wouldn’t be hard to prove you fit the exclusion if you really do)
• If you fit the offroading exclusion, they can have the contract dissolved. (Legally this means that a contract never existed)
• NO CONTRACT = NO COVERAGE
• NO COVERAGE = NO MONEY (even for claims with nothing to do with offroading, because there was never really a contract)

I’m not trying to defend the insurance company, but a judge would ask you, why should the insurance company uphold their end of the deal when you didn’t do your share?
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Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what to think. I guess like anything it is all going to be based on risk. The level of risk is based on what your usage will be. My Scrambler is very clean and is used very rarily "off-road". (I have a 2nd Jeep for that.) "Off-road" is illeagal in MI anyway unless you are on an ORV route or at a ORV park. (Therefore I would be breaching the contract at the Dunes!) I do use it occasionally on Seasonal County roads, which is "on-road use" in my opinion. I did indicate to my rep that it would occasionally travel on "seasonal county roads" and they did not reject me for that.

The camping exclusion does bother me and I may need to check into that. I do camp alot w/it!
 
bigwalton said:
I think we've had this discussion before...

What worries me is if (God forbid) you had to collect on the insurance after running a "county road" and they find mud splashed on the undercarriage. They then reject the claim because they'll say you lied and went offroad. Then the burden will be on you to try and prove that you didn't do something to violate their totally arbitrary policy that they can enforce however they like to their financial advantage.

Note that they say they won't cover the vehicle period if it's used offroad, not that it will not be covered if it is going offroad at the time of the incident!
Click to expand...

I hear you loud and clear.......
 
Scott_P said:
which is "on-road use" in my opinion
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And what do you think their opinion would be if it gets them out of a claim ;)

No bashing or anything intended, btw. I'm just a little nuts about insurance on these after that &%^%$ ran into me and what I had to go through (and that was with a situation where there were no issues on the coverage, just the value)... :banghead:

I have a feeling that the camping exclusion means that you're camping IN the thing, like a Winnebago, where cooking or electrical appliances may be used in it, upping the risk.
 
Check your annual mileage limits. Hagerty said I could not go over 2500 a year so I went with Farm Bureau that has a LOT less coverage. My guy also says to keep receipts... just for disputes which happen frequently when coverage is not replacement cost basis. I get ill just thinking about insurance.
 
tinymay said:
so I went with Farm Bureau that has a LOT less coverage. .
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Why did you go with a company that has a lot less coverage. Won't that be a disadvantage to you if you have a claim?
 
bigwalton said:
And what do you think their opinion would be if it gets them out of a claim ;)

No bashing or anything intended, btw. I'm just a little nuts about insurance on these after that &%^%$ ran into me and what I had to go through (and that was with a situation where there were no issues on the coverage, just the value)... :banghead:

I have a feeling that the camping exclusion means that you're camping IN the thing, like a Winnebago, where cooking or electrical appliances may be used in it, upping the risk.
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No bashing taken.........its actually a good discussion and makes you look at it from another's perspective.

I guess "opinion" was the wrong word......you are either on a legal road or not....the fact is, a seasonal county road is a legal road.....

You're probably right on the camping thing, but I plan to look into it.
 
mopedal said:
Why did you go with a company that has a lot less coverage. Won't that be a disadvantage to you if you have a claim?
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I knew my ride would get over 2500 miles annually and play on chicken gully every now and then. Hagerty's rules said no way. Farm Bureau insured it but neither company would touch what I have in it so I just got it legal with the liabilty stuff and been watching for a deal. Yep, I am at risk of a big loss. That's why I'm interested in what ya'll got to say...

Anybody have $15,000 coverage with offroad travel and 10,000 miles annual??
 
I questioned the Hagerty exclusion at the time but the true issue for them was HOW the vehicle (any vehicle) is being used at the time of the incident. While a Jeep is CAPABLE it doesn't have to go off-road if the owner chooses not to--as can be said for anything. In addition the exclusion is for ANY vehicle used in a way consistent with abuse including off-roading and come on folks, who hasn't abused their Jeep to some degree or another if they've taken it off road?

If I were an insurer why would I want to cover a vehicle if used off-road--especially without a hefty premium on top of the standard for example? Too many if's anyways. Likely that if you take the vehicle off-road and hammer it there's a better than 50% chance it will get damaged depending on where you go--the Rubicon, Moab?

If you want coverage for off-road then pay a lofty premium for a specially structured coverage plan for example--they do exist.
 
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Anybody tried Grundy. I had my 23 T-Bucket insured with them for Stated Value.
 
Dave K. said:
If you want coverage for off-road then pay a lofty premium for a specially structured coverage plan for example--they do exist.
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I don't think that anyone here (at least not me) is saying that we want coverage while offroad. That's actually where I'm the least worried about anything happening (in terms of an insurance claim) because I feel like 1. there's probably the lowest chance of theft anywhere and 2. I'm in the most control of what's happening and don't have to worry about idiots coming at me in the other lane texting on their cellphone while drinking a latte and punching up directions on their nav screen.

All I'm saying is that I just want to know that the insurance company will cover me on the ride home from the trail and not deny a claim because I had been offroad the day before, had driven more than XXX miles that year because I went to the National, or wasn't going to/from a car show or shop.
 
Sorry 'bout the misunderstanding there--in re-reading I guess I can see where the direction was going better and that I was off base in my take on things.

I do think most companies will cover on the road driving of any vehicle otherwise an "off-road" model of a pickup for example would see the same problems--or any 4-wheel drive. As I indicated the primary thrust for Hagerty was that insurance coverage ended at the trailhead essentially. I haven't tested them on this but understand that others with WW2 Jeeps for example that had accidents received full coverage and good service from them. The concern would also be that people beat up a vehicle and then claim a hit and run or something but that could happen with any vehicle really and does quite often according to my insurance agent.

Hope this helps. Regards, Dave.
 
I've done several appraisals on Jeeps for local insurance agencies over the years. The common thread is receipts and photos to back up the "Stated Value". My 1973 CJ-5 (I bought it new) is insured for $12,000 and with only 23,688 miles on it (300 feet at a time) there was no questions about the value. I also wrote one up for a 77 CJ-7 for $18,000 (He has $20,800 in receipts) and $40,000 on my daughters 78 CJ-7 "Show Vehicle" for the Children's Tumor Foundation fund raisers ( over $50,000 in receipts). It seems all three companies were more concerned with receipts than usage. My agent laughed as he told me not to drive mine over 12,000 miles per year. It hasn't been driven in the winter since 1974, so I just keep the Comprehensive coverage on it 6 months out of the year. Your agent should have a "Stated Value" or an "Appraised Value" form for you.
I have also been asked to be an "Arbitrator" for a couple of Jeeps that were involved in accidents. I learned that even though you were involved in an accident that was not your fault, if you have your Jeep insured for "Accepted Book Value" on your coverage, that is all you can expect to collect from the other persons insurance company.

By the way, I agree, that is a sweet Scrambler.
 
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