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spankrjs's Biloxi, MS '83 Scrambler

Right before Moab, this one must have got mad at me/jealous of all the attention the Red Scrambler was getting, and decided to drain it's Dana 300's oil out all over the floor!!

After cleaning up the floor/transfer case, I discovered a blown front output seal:

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I would imagine all of this dirt, trapped behind the yokes "shield" did not help matters:

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While changing out the seal, I noticed that the front output has a bit too much "in/out" play, so I guess this winter I will be rebuilding another Dana 300/T5. Practice makes perfect:thumbsup: I noticed some PO orange silicone, so I kind of have been planning for this. The seal change stopped the leak, for now, but with the excessive play in the front output shaft, I imagine any 4x4 usage will result in a new gear oil puddle:shrug:

After rebuilding the carb/adjusting the timing correctly/hooking up most of the feedback computers sensors/hoses, this Scrambler has been running great, and averaging around 18mpg, mixed city/highway, Not too bad, for a 258 with 125,000 miles.

But, after reading another post, I decided to do the "Team Rush" upgrade, just to see if it would make a difference.

Quick picture of the parts I "upgraded" too:

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Picture of what I had been running. I replaced the cap/rotor/plugs/plug wires after I bought the Jeep. These parts were sourced from NAPA, all "Premium" items. The existing cap has brass terminals inside of it. I have never changed the coil on this Scrambler, so it might be pretty old?

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Quick picture of the plugs I pulled out of the engine. They have maybe 3,000 miles on them. They all look good, nice even brown/tan color. #1 (on far left in both pictures) looks like it might have some slight deposits on it, but I might have bumped this plug into some grime when I pulled it out.

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And after swapping in the "upgrade" parts:

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It was pretty simple to swap in these parts. The only issue I had: the rotor was a tad loose on the distributor. Not real loose, but a little loose. Not side to side loose, but like a loose slip fit. I squirted some dielectric grease inside the rotor, to help secure it. Might not be an issue??

After swapping the parts, the Scrambler started right up, idled fine, and drove fine, just like before. Which is a good thing, but I have not seen any "improvement". Once I drive the Scrambler some more, and record some more MPG numbers, I will report back. I do like the new plug wires, my favorite part of this "upgrade".

I have one issue with this Scrambler: spark knock at idle. It does not knock while driving, accelerating, decelerating, cruising, flooring it, climbing hills, etc. But, it does exhibit some really random/sporadic spark knock at idle. I usually run 87 octane, but I have also tried 89 and 93 octane fuel, with no change. I only run pure gas in this Scrambler, no ethanol. I does not knock for long, maybe 5 seconds, then it quits. Sometimes, it will just be one random "knock" in a five minute idle period. It is NOT a mechanical knock, it is spark knock.

The FSM has this to say:

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Maybe this is true, but I don't like it. I am going to change out the "knock sensor", which was a PIA to find, but Advance Auto can get them, will post the part # up later. I changed out the existing knock sensor for another used sensor, with no change.

Like I said, it only "knocks" for very short periods of time (3-5 seconds MAX), and very randomly. It will mostly only "knock" once, then it stops. Very random. It mainly "knocks" after returning to idle after high speed driving.

Besides the knock sensor, I am going to check/clean the vacuum advance, and the centrifugal advance, to make sure they are working correctly, and check the timing, again.

Does anyone else, who still runs the 1983+ feedback carter/computer controlled ignition ever experience this random spark knock?

That's it for now.
 
I doubt that it is spark knock. I'd guess it's a bearing clearance issue until the oil pressure comes up or a lifter bleeding down.

Sent from my SCH-I545
 
mysunnshine said:
I doubt that it is spark knock. I'd guess it's a bearing clearance issue until the oil pressure comes up or a lifter bleeding down.

Sent from my SCH-I545
Click to expand...

I was scared you would say something like that, and those evil thoughts have been at the back of my mind:(

When cold, and upon start up, no noise at all. It will only "knock" sporadically, once it is fully warmed up, only at idle, and very intermittently. It goes away with just a hair of throttle, the noise does not correspond to RPM. I would say 85% of the time, no noise. And when it does "knock", it is for very short durations, 3 seconds max, then it quits.

The oil pressure gauge reads low, but it is the factory gauge, and I believe they usually read low. I might plumb in a mechanical gauge to get a better idea of what the oil pressure is.

The sound does not appear to be from the head, it is "low" in the engine. It is not a metallic sound, kind of a strange sound, I might have to see if I can record it. I was with my buddy in his straight 6 Ford when it got the "rod knock", followed shortly by the "seized engine" problem. This is definitely not those sounds, it is not that definitive metal to metal sound, if that makes sense?

The clutch is weak, I wonder if the sound might just be a broke clutch component that makes contact with the fly wheel intermittently? I need to pull the belts and eliminate the possibility of an alternator/ps pump/water pump sound, but the sound does not seem to come from the front of the engine.

A cylinder compression test might be interesting, too:fingerscrossed: Or, maybe, hopefully, just spark knock, but is spark knock at idle that common of a problem:shrug: This sound was much more common BEFORE I correctly adjusted the timing, so I am still :fingerscrossed: that it might just be a timing/detonation issue:fingerscrossed:

I might have to leave a timing light on the engine and see if the timing "jumps" when the sound occurs, maybe a loose timing chain? The distributor shaft has some "twist" slack, but it is tight up and down and side to side.
 
CJ8LVR said:
Swap in a 4.0L and see if that solves it. :popcorn:
Click to expand...

Nah, I'll get this one rebuilt before I do that:thumbsup:

I haven't messed with rebuilding engines in a long while, might have to start again:(

Worst case, I can pull the engine/disassemble it. Take the block/crank/head to a machine shop, let them work their magic, then I can reassemble it.

Might get some pricing info, but it wont be until the fall/winter before I rebuild an engine, too hot right now already:rotfl:
 
I've got a rebuilt 258 for sale...just sayin'....:rolleyes:
 
Yes but it solves the problem you have right now!!!
 
The knock sensor from Advance Auto is the wrong one for this engine, but I have another one coming that will hopefully work:thumbsup:

I borrowed a stand alone tachometer, and another timing light, to compare to what I have been using. The stand alone tachometer was showing that my idle was around 500RPM, which is a bit low. The borrowed timing light gave identical results to the timing light I have been using.

To check the timing, I turned the Scrambler off, unplugged the vacuum advance line (and capped it), and unplugged the three wire connecter from the 4hz vacuum thingy.

I then restarted the Scrambler, held the RPM at 1,600, and checked the timing. IIRC, it was a bit high, so I backed it down to around 6-8 BTDC.

I then turned the Scrambler off. I plugged back in the wire thing and the vacuum line.

I then restarted it. With the timing reset, and the idle at 650-700RPM, it is running great. And, more importantly, after driving about 100 miles this weekend, only very limited "spark knock" sound.

BUT, the one thing that concerned me: When I was checking the timing at idle, the mark was "jumping" a bit, it was not steady. Not sure if this is a symptom of a timing chain issue:shrug:

Since I have a pretty good oil leak, I think I am going to drop the oil pan, change that gasket, the rear main seal, and put a timing chain in it, for now. I will probably check the compression, too. But that will be in a few months, since it is running great for now, and I need to work on the tan Scrambler, this one will have to be a bit patient;)
 
I investigated my engine oil leak, turns out 90% of it was coming from the oil pressure sending unit.

So, I swapped in a new one:

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And most of my oil leak was solved. I also gained oil pressure. The gauge never drops below 20 pounds at idle, so maybe this engine still has plenty of life left:fingerscrossed:

On the "weird sound/knock" issue, I let our mechanic at work listen to it. He tends to believe it is coming from the timing chain/front of engine.

I will probably install a timing chain in a few months.

That's it for now:wave:
 
Been a long time since I messed with this one. Last fuel fill up was November 20, 2014, thank God I used ethanol free gas!!!! The last time I started this one up and drove it was in early 2015. After charging up the battery, it started up fairly easy. The transmission did not want to shift at first, I guess all the oil had run off the shifter forks due to it sitting for so long.

So, drove Josh's Scrambler back to Tuscaloosa Friday night, washed four Jeeps on Saturday, got bored Sunday afternoon and decided to start tinkering with this one again :rotfl:

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I have been slowly learning about/researching/acquiring parts to get all the feedback carb/emissions systems stuff reinstalled and operational on this one. I guess I want a challenge:shrug:

After the work I did a few years back, the computer is going into "closed loop" and controlling the carb. The Scrambler runs really well, about the only issue it has is that it likes to blow the reverse light fuse, which also controls the choke.

This Scrambler was not "Bubba'd" too much in its past, but some "Bubba" did happen. More on that in a bit.

After getting this one fired up and running, I did some testing using the factory under hood diagnostic port. After changing the choke fuse,and armed with my trusty muti-meter, I checked the diagnostic port contacts:

D1-1 Tach signal = Works
D1-2 Electric Choke = Hot with engine running
D1-3 Ground = It's a ground
D1-4 Start = Hot in Start
D1-5 Sol-Vac = Did not check
D1-6 NC = Did not check

D2-1 PCV Solenoid = NOT USED
D2-2 Idle Solenoid = Hot with engine running
D2-3 Altitude Jumper = Hot (as it should be if it is not grounded)
D2-4 B+ = did not check, not sure what it is
D2-5 DS solenoid = did not check
D2-6 WOT Switch = Hot with engine running
D2-7 Ground = It's a ground
D2-8 US Solenoid = did not check
D2-9 10" VS = hot or ground, depending on throttle, works
D2-10 Thermal Electric Switch = went hot once engine started to warm up as it should
D2-11 Stepper Motor -did not check
D2-12 Coolant temp - went to ground once engine started to warm up as it should
D2-13 Idle Speed Relay - did not check
D2-14 Stepper Motor - did not check
D2-15 4" VS - hot or ground, depending on throttle, works

Basically, just confirmed what I already knew. I did not bother to check/test the pulse air sytem components at this time. The vacuum/electric switches are still hooked up, but I have not hooked up any of the valves/piping. The pulse air stuff not being present would not effect how the Scrambler runs anyway, I suppose :shrug:

The one component that does not function on this Scrambler is the Sol-Vac. If I hook up manifold vacuum to it, it will extend out. But, when I ran a 12 volt jumper wire to it it would not extend at all, even when I manually opened the throttle. But, does the vacuum portion have to be working/hooked up before the electrical, not sure??

I have a new Sol-Vac unit to install, but before I installed it, wanted to do some more diagnostic work.

The one potential "Bubba" issue with this Scrambler involves the wiring harness that runs from the firewall to the intake manifold/carb area. All the wires were wrapped up in electric tape, that was good and crispy. Not sure how the factory ran this part of the harness, but I don't imagine they just let it sit on the hot intake/exhaust manifolds??

A few years back I repaired the thermal electric switch wires in this area due to the fact that they were melted. I guess I should have dug further :rolleyes:

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Yep, looks like it all melted before, and someone did the old "cut out and twisty wrap new wires in":rotfl:

The melted wires wont be hard to repair, but I need some more information on some of these wires, and why some of them have either diodes or resistors on them. The 82 FSM with '83 supplement does not describe/show too much on some of this wiring. Only one diode/resistor/fusible link is broken. What I know:

1) Knock sensor - single red with white stripe wire that runs all the way back to computer (need to test)
2) 02 Sensor - single grey wire that runs back to the computer (sensor still works and talks to computer)
3) coolant temp sensor - one blue and one black wire (sensor still functions and talks to computer)
4) manifold heater - orange wire to heater, intact (need to check at the harness, maybe that's what some of these diodes/fusible links/resistors are for)
5) manifold heater coolant sensor - green wire, intact all the way to harness/relay
6) WOT switch - all wires OK, talks to computer
7) SolVac wiring - ground wire OK, with diode attached before ringlet, as it should be. The energizing wire is damaged.
8) Choke wires - see above picture. Looks like two tanish browns and a red go into a grey connector, then a black plug comes out of it. Single yellow wire spliced out of it to choke (not stock obvious). It also has another wire with a female spade terminal coming off the black connector, this was melted badly. The melted wire was resting on the exhaust manifold, probably the cause of the fuse blowing.

Anyway, I got some research/tracing/figuring to do on some of this, especially the wires with the diodes/resistors/fusible link thingy's.

Any help appreciated :thumbsup:

That's it for now :wave:
 
You've got about 5 months to figure it out and install flag mount.


 
MrBeep said:
You've got about 5 months to figure it out and install flag mount.
Click to expand...

I would need to install a clutch, this one is getting weak with 125k on it, and rebuild the T5, bearings are getting noisy in 1,2,3rd gear, and front output shaft bearing in the Dana 300 (probably rebuild the whole thing if going inside) before Sandblast, and I think JeepAddict is beating down my door :rotfl:

Figured out the connector/brown wire on the choke plug, it was for the PCV solenoid that was removed, wire was left in place :thumbsup:
 
spankrjs said:
I would need to install a clutch, this one is getting weak with 125k on it, and rebuild the T5, bearings are getting noisy in 1,2,3rd gear, and front output shaft bearing in the Dana 300 (probably rebuild the whole thing if going inside) before Sandblast, and I think JeepAddict is beating down my door :rotfl:

Figured out the connector/brown wire on the choke plug, it was for the PCV solenoid that was removed, wire was left in place :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

you'll have all that done in a week...
 
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