‘82 Engine Swap & Restification

ag4ever

Average Nut
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Richmond
State
TX
Beautiful!! I loved my tach from speedhut so much that i just ordered the clock, water, oil, volt meter and a vacuum vacuum guages. How long did yours take? That's the GPS speedo, right?
Bought on the first day of March madness sale, but I had the tach customized and wanted a proof, so that delayed it some. I’d budget 6-8 weeks just to be safe.
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
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CJ-8.com Member
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Richmond
State
TX
Yes, GPS speedo. Gonna run the NP241C and the one I got does not have the mechanical speedo output, so this works best.

BEF1A1F0-BAF1-4DFF-AE28-50F562D471B0.jpeg
 

Chamba

Active member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
Beautiful.

I should have ordered all mine at March madness when i ordered my tach but after that Omix tach i was gun shy . I'm really impressed with the quality of speedhut's tach though so i ordered everything. I have a new dash panel coming and I can't very well fill it full of old guages now can I?
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
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Richmond
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TX
Starting to think about axle choices. Wife would like this one a bit higher for flood evacuation purposes, so thinking about 35’s. That leads me to thinking D44 in front and D60 in the rear.

If I go D44 in the front, what are my donor options? I don’t necessarily need to keep the 5 on 5.5 pattern.

I am considering a FSJ front axle, but do I go NT or WT if I just shorten the long side? I think I would like to stay near stock width front and rear. Been reading a lot of info on the web, and my head is just spinning from info overload.

There is a set of Scout II axles available locally as well as FSJ axles.

The other option is get custom axles made from scratch, but not thrilled with the cash outlay on that option.
 

Belizeit

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
City
River Ridge
State
La
Was watching a video yesterday about making a very large and strong teraflex axel for front end on a newer jeep. Looked real nice but also expensive.
 

Chamba

Active member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
For what it's worth, I've been very impressed with East Coast Gear. Dana 60 rear, 44 front. Built brake to brake any width you want and really good customer service.
 

John N

Addicted....Ex-SOA VP
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Rockville
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VA
For axles, a Scout II rear and a FSJ wide track front, narrowed 4” on long side make a good combo. Convert the front to 5 on 5.5” and you’re good to go. Pretty easy to do yourself too. Width is not extreme and will handle 35’s with no problem.
 

sdsupilot

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
City
OKC
State
OK
I would consider a NT wagoneer front 44 with either a centered 80s waggy rear or Honda pilot/Isuzu rodeo rear 44. You would have to outboard your front spring hangers, but you wouldn't need to narrow the axle to end up around 60" wide in the front. You can get either disc or drum brakes on the pilot/rodeo rear. That gives you 6 lug front and rear.

There is a great thread on this forum talking specifically about using a WT 44. If you cut 4" off the long side, you end up about 60" wide without outboarding.

Before starting I would budget total cost of sourcing, rebuilding and gearing the axles and compare that to bolt in new. You can save a ton of time and effort by buying something that is bolt in. Sometimes the cost is worth the time savings.
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
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Richmond
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TX
I have read through the Don't Use a Wagoner Axle thread, and that has lead me down this rabbit hole that seems endless.

I can pick up a set of front/rear Scout II axles locally for about $500, or I can get a FSJ front axle locally for $450. Then I would need a rear axle (if getting the FSJ).

Stock axle shaft lengths would be nice, but are not a necessity. (I don't plan any KOH trips and that is not my offroad driving style.)

Going slightly wider is not out of the question, especially if it allows the turning radius to stay tight. But, I don't really want to have a jeep with full size 1 ton axle widths.

From the web research (not sure these are all correct) I have found the following WMS-WMS dimensions:

Scout II
Front 60.5"
Rear 58.5"

'76-80 Cherokee Chief 2 DR.
Front 65.4"
Rear 62.3"

'74-75 J-10
Front 62.9" ???
Rear 63.8"

'76-79 J-10
Front 63.3" ???
rear 63.8"

'76-79 J-20
Front 64.9"
Rear 65.9"

'82-86 CJ's
Front 55.8" (57" per ECGS) - measured from my ‘83 - 56.5” *edited
Rear 55" (56" per ECGS) - measured from my ‘83 - 55.5” *edited

So, If I go Scout II rear, that is about 1.25" wider on each side, but then I need that same 1.25" wider in the front too. If I go Scout II in the front, then I have 2 3/8" wider on each side in the front (and need to deal with camber).

If I go Scout II rear & FSJ WT front (Narrowed), I have between 2.8" and 2.5" wider on each side in the front.

In any case, it seams the front is growing more than necessary.

What am I missing?

I have not ruled out getting new axles from East Coast Gear Supply or another vendor, just want to be sure I am looking at this the right way. (Considering a set of new axles will run $8,000 - $10,000 depending on how they are set up.)

Then add in the variable of changing the hubs/spindles on the axles to change the bolt pattern, and how does that affect the WMS-WMS measurement???
 
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sdsupilot

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
City
OKC
State
OK
There should be a thread for "don't use a scout front end". You will want to "cut and turn" a scout front. Their caster is not good for street driving. Compounding the issue is that if you shim for caster, your pinion ends up towards the ground or even binding.

I have a friend with a 79 Scout II. It drove somewhat poorly on the street unmodified. He added 33" tires and 4" alcan springs. It was unmanageable on the road. If you saw a blade of grass on the road, it would grab it and try to drive into oncoming traffic or the ditch. He then put 6 degree shims in the front. It was then better (maybe) than it was unmodified, except the driveshaft bound under droop. He took the 6 degree shims out and replaced with 4s. It is now OK for short trips with someone who understands its quirks, but not for someone unfamiliar. He is currently looking for someone to cut and turn the knuckles. Sorry for the long explanation, just don't want you to be surprised with something that won't stay on the road.

I would either go with some form of waggy front, or a new east coast front axle with a used rear.
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
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Richmond
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TX
I agree the scout front axle is not the best choice. With all the modifications needed, you still have D30 stub shafts in a D44 housing. Or was that D35 shafts? Either way, I am changing axles just because LS + 35" = stock axles short life expectancy (and I can use the stock axles for another build from spare parts). Don't really want to make a lateral move. That is the reasoning behind going D44 front/D60 rear. That, and if I do decide to go 37" (or larger) in the future those axles should be just fine.
 

Chamba

Active member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
I went with the 60.5" east cost gear. It seems a good width. They manufacture it with proper caster and pinion angle which is great and no need to dick around with spring locations, etc. It comes with all new steering linkages, Pittman arm, tie rods, etc. It's expensive, yes. But the convenience is so very worth it in my opinion. It leaves that much more time for other projects. All you do is bolt it on.
 
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ag4ever

Average Nut
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CJ-8.com Member
City
Richmond
State
TX
I went with the 60.5" east cost gear. It seems a good width. They manufacture it with proper caster and pinion angle which is great and no need to dick around with spring locations, etc. It comes with all new steering linkages, Pittman arm, tie rods, etc. It's extensive, yes. But the convenience is so very worth it in my opinion. It leaves that much more time for other projects. All you do is bolt it on.
Really starting to lean this way.

The idea of getting a used axle, replacing the gears, chopping and cutting and turning, then setting up for straight shafts, then welding and on and on and on. Just not looking like a fun part of the build. And then needing to replace seals, bearings, ball joints, u-joints, etc... just way more fun.
 

Chamba

Active member
City
Vero Beach
State
FL
Not to mention brakes. Mine had new rotors, discs, calipers, lines and parking brake cable. Only thing it doesn't come with is u bolts.... but you can order those too!

My last build I built fj60 axles for my FJ40- modified them, etc. Took me weeks. NEVER again. Sure, they ain't cheap, but what price piece of mind, lack of stress and knowing there's nothing to worry about? .

Just you add: they can build it with any bolt pattern you wish. I nearly went 6 on 5.5 because I've got a number of those rims sitting about. I'm the end, i kept 5 on 5.5 just for ease.
 
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John N

Addicted....Ex-SOA VP
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Rockville
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VA
One thing that you haven’t covered, but asked about is changing the lug pattern. With a FSJ front, you’ll want the small bearing spindles (oem on ‘74 to ‘77.5). Then use the Ford ‘70-‘80’s 1/2 ton 5 lug hub/rotor. This adds 1” to the overall width of the axle.
 

mwqpd11

Scrambler Junkie
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Coopersburg
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PA
Narrow track wagoneer 44s. Been running them for 15 years under my CJ7 and now my 10a. 36s and 37s with 4.88 gears lock rires and moly shafts. Never had an issue and they were cheap. Just running 6 lug rims
 

tower210

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Olathe
State
KS
Can the Mods copy out the the front axle discussion and make it it's own thread? This stuff is gold
 

tower210

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Olathe
State
KS
One thing that you haven’t covered, but asked about is changing the lug pattern. With a FSJ front, you’ll want the small bearing spindles (oem on ‘74 to ‘77.5). Then use the Ford ‘70-‘80’s 1/2 ton 5 lug hub/rotor. This adds 1” to the overall width of the axle.
I'm headed this direction as soon as funds are there... I want to be 60-61" wide (safe clearance to springs on both side at full lock). I currently have 2" spacers (I know, I know, but its temporary) allow the correct width. With 7 deg caster and an alignment it tracks down the highway at 75 with no drama....

I want to keep the 5 on 5.5.... So John's suggestion keeps that intact.

I'd read somewhere that the Dana 30 knuckles turn better than the Dana 44; and bolt right up. Is this true?

I'll definitely go high steer. I put the HD steering DL & TR from rugged ridge on a few weeks back (still love it). Will stock 44 knuckle hold 1 ton chevy TRE? or do I need an adapter.

Does the 74-77.5 Waggy or 5 lug F-150's have bigger brake rotors or better calipers than the CJ? I'd love a little more brake capacity.

Sorry for the barrage of questions.....
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
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City
Richmond
State
TX
I'm headed this direction as soon as funds are there... I want to be 60-61" wide (safe clearance to springs on both side at full lock). I currently have 2" spacers.
Do you have any pictures from the front showing the track width in comparison to the fenders.

What tires / rims are you running?

With 35” tires, they will be 2” wider than the 31” I currently run. If using stock back spacing, that means 1” wider street side and 1” towards the spring. So 2” wider axles would be ideal, but slightly wider might be better. 4” wider puts me at 60.5” which seems to be where most people go.
 
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