OT: Retro Wrangler/Willys Pickup (long)
- Thread starter jscherb
- Start date
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
I always wonder if I'm posting too much of the little details but then I see that this thread seems to get a couple of hundred views a day, so I guess someone's interested. If I post too much stuff just flame me and I'll stop.
Photos below show the roof rib put in place with structural adhesive. The inset shows the adhesive, it's called SpeedGrip. It's a two part urethane panel adhesive that requires a special gun. The tip mixes the two parts automatically. It's about $35 a tube, but well worth it, grips like crazy. My local auto paint place lends out the guns so you don't have to buy that too (another $35).
The joint in the roof panel is under the rib, so this provides good support for the joint. The rib is also welded to the roof flange on each end.
The lower set of three photos shows the wide mounting flange on the CJ-10 rear/side wall section, and the flange I'm building up on the roof panel. As I've mentioned before, the CJ-7/8 World Cab roofs have narrow mounting flanges that aren't really compatible with the CJ-10 parts, so I'm adding this wider flange, it's made from 16-ga. sheet metal folded into an angle.
And Eric: based on how this flange is working out, I think I'll build the top so that it still can be disassembled. I'll weld captive nut strips inside the flange and screws will go up through the CJ-10 part into the nut strips. The upper door jambs will also attach to the roof panel the same way. These wide flanges will provide a lot of real estate to work with to get solid joints.
Photos below show the roof rib put in place with structural adhesive. The inset shows the adhesive, it's called SpeedGrip. It's a two part urethane panel adhesive that requires a special gun. The tip mixes the two parts automatically. It's about $35 a tube, but well worth it, grips like crazy. My local auto paint place lends out the guns so you don't have to buy that too (another $35).
The joint in the roof panel is under the rib, so this provides good support for the joint. The rib is also welded to the roof flange on each end.
The lower set of three photos shows the wide mounting flange on the CJ-10 rear/side wall section, and the flange I'm building up on the roof panel. As I've mentioned before, the CJ-7/8 World Cab roofs have narrow mounting flanges that aren't really compatible with the CJ-10 parts, so I'm adding this wider flange, it's made from 16-ga. sheet metal folded into an angle.
And Eric: based on how this flange is working out, I think I'll build the top so that it still can be disassembled. I'll weld captive nut strips inside the flange and screws will go up through the CJ-10 part into the nut strips. The upper door jambs will also attach to the roof panel the same way. These wide flanges will provide a lot of real estate to work with to get solid joints.
- City
- Manassas
- State
- Va
Jeff, I don't know why but sheet metal and body work scare me a little. You detailed posts of this project have opened my eyes. I think I could venture out into this realm if necessary thanks to you. Of course my welding would need a whole lot more practice.
Truck
Truck
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Truck said:
Thanks Truck,
That means a lot to me. I was very unsure of my ability to do sheet metal and body work when I was planning the project, that's why the very first thing I did was make the rear fenders. I figured that if I couldn't succeed at building the fenders I shouldn't take on the whole project. Luckily I did ok on the fenders.
I have learned a ton about sheet metal and body work in the past year. I was thinking maybe I should pass on what I've learned by doing some postings about some of the tools and techniques that I've learned to make things easier. I will do that if people are interested.
Jeff
- City
- Redmond
- State
- OR
jscherb said:
That sounds great! I have done some body work/welding, but I am always looking for better or more efficient ways to do things.
By the way, that panel adhesive is great stuff! I have seen tests where properly prepped panels which are joined using adhesive are stronger than similar welded panels. Destructive testing proved it. My local expert body shop recommended using it for replacing floor pans! They also use it for door skins- and the glued doors are much more rigid than similarly welded doors! The only downside to the adhesive is that it can't be used on a visible seam in a finish panel- it leaves a "signature" through the paint no matter how smooth it looks.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
I got the roof mounting flanges finished and tack welded on today. In the first photo you can see the mounting holes where the top and sides/rear panel will be bolted together. The second photo shows how the roof panel sits on the flanges. I've also put in the holes for mounting the upper door jambs. Because I'll be bolting all the parts together, the top will still be able to be disassembled after it's done.
I'll weld threaded nut plates inside the flanges a bit later, after I make a few mods to the CJ-10 sheet metal - I need to raise the sides and back 1/2" so the roof sits level, after that's done I'll finalize the mounting.
I'll weld threaded nut plates inside the flanges a bit later, after I make a few mods to the CJ-10 sheet metal - I need to raise the sides and back 1/2" so the roof sits level, after that's done I'll finalize the mounting.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Today I extended the height of the CJ-10 cab walls by 1/2". I did this with 1/2" square tubing, bent to shape and welded in place. This was necessary to level the drip rail with the body, with the unmodified CJ-10 part the roof was about 1/2" lower in the back than it was at the windshield. I'll use filler to smooth the extension even with the outer wall.
I also took about 1/4" of length out of each of the CJ-10 sides (the sides I lengthened some months ago!). Back then I decided on the length of the sides by lining up the vertical part of the door jambs at the back of the door. But due to a slight difference in the profile of the door jamb between the CJ and the TJ, the sides actually needed to be slightly shorter, which I didn't know until I had the top on the completed truck. The sides did fit ok at the longer length I originally made, and I could have left them alone, but the fit wasn't absolutely perfect the way I wanted it to be.
Also made all the threaded nut plates, these will get welded inside the flanges I added to the roof panel so everything can be bolted together.
Haven't done the final welding on the recent fab work yet, I'll do that after I've installed the nut plates, bolted it all together and fabricated the upper door jambs.
I also took about 1/4" of length out of each of the CJ-10 sides (the sides I lengthened some months ago!). Back then I decided on the length of the sides by lining up the vertical part of the door jambs at the back of the door. But due to a slight difference in the profile of the door jamb between the CJ and the TJ, the sides actually needed to be slightly shorter, which I didn't know until I had the top on the completed truck. The sides did fit ok at the longer length I originally made, and I could have left them alone, but the fit wasn't absolutely perfect the way I wanted it to be.
Also made all the threaded nut plates, these will get welded inside the flanges I added to the roof panel so everything can be bolted together.
Haven't done the final welding on the recent fab work yet, I'll do that after I've installed the nut plates, bolted it all together and fabricated the upper door jambs.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Today I got all 20 nut plates welded in to the roof panel, and for the first time, got the roof bolted to the sides/rear wall and got the whole thing bolted to the Jeep - up until now I've just been setting things in place.
There are a few pics below showing how I did the nut plates, since some of you have indicated interest in me sharing what I've learned, I'll write about these. Maybe not the most exciting place to start but I'll write up some more interesting stuff in the near future.
Upper left, shows the threaded nut plate, sitting next to the sheet metal I'm going to weld it in to. There are three holes in the sheet metal - one for the bolt hole and two for the welds. The holes for the welds are fairly large - about 1/4". The nut plates are 3/4" x 3/16" steel; I've drilled and tapped the hole with 1/4-20 threads.
Upper right, I've put the nut plate behind the sheet metal and I'm holding it in tightly place with a bolt.
Lower left, I've done what's called a "plug weld" in the holes. It's sort of the equivalent of a spot weld but done with a MIG welder. For this weld, I've turned the wire feed speed down fairly low, and I'm running the welder hotter than I would for welding sheet metal because I want to penetrate the thicker steel of the nut plate well. The idea is to build a molten puddle in the hole in the sheet metal that stays molten long enough for good penetration into the thicker steel - hence the fairly large hole, the slow wire feed (don't want too much filler metal added) and the hot arc. While welding I make a circular motion around the hole to make sure the molten puddle fills the hole.
Lower right - I've ground off the raised weld beads.
Are short tips like these useful?
Tomorrow's plan is to start working on the upper door jambs.
There are a few pics below showing how I did the nut plates, since some of you have indicated interest in me sharing what I've learned, I'll write about these. Maybe not the most exciting place to start but I'll write up some more interesting stuff in the near future.
Upper left, shows the threaded nut plate, sitting next to the sheet metal I'm going to weld it in to. There are three holes in the sheet metal - one for the bolt hole and two for the welds. The holes for the welds are fairly large - about 1/4". The nut plates are 3/4" x 3/16" steel; I've drilled and tapped the hole with 1/4-20 threads.
Upper right, I've put the nut plate behind the sheet metal and I'm holding it in tightly place with a bolt.
Lower left, I've done what's called a "plug weld" in the holes. It's sort of the equivalent of a spot weld but done with a MIG welder. For this weld, I've turned the wire feed speed down fairly low, and I'm running the welder hotter than I would for welding sheet metal because I want to penetrate the thicker steel of the nut plate well. The idea is to build a molten puddle in the hole in the sheet metal that stays molten long enough for good penetration into the thicker steel - hence the fairly large hole, the slow wire feed (don't want too much filler metal added) and the hot arc. While welding I make a circular motion around the hole to make sure the molten puddle fills the hole.
Lower right - I've ground off the raised weld beads.
Are short tips like these useful?
Tomorrow's plan is to start working on the upper door jambs.
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AJM81CJ8
Door Breaker
- City
- Kalamazoo
- State
- MI
I know thats this is probably a little late, but what about using riveted in nut plates? As an aircraft mechanic, I deal with riveted in nut plates all the time, and they work really well. Also, you can get ones that are floating, so the "nut" part of the plate can move around, allowing for any misalignments in the alignment of the screw holes. Also, if it ever becomes necessary to replace the nut plates, replacemnt is very easy. Just drill out two rivets, and install new plate with two more. Just a thought I had...
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Today I got the driver's side upper door jamb fabricated. I also put the rear window in the hardtop so I could see how the whole package is turning out.
The jamb worked out very well, and bolts in place, so the top can still be disassembled for storage or whatever.
I'm still thinking about one thing - the jamb is recessed from the outer cab wall - if you look closely at the photos you can see this. I'm trying to decide if I will make a filler in the corner which would be flush with the outside wall of the hardtop. This would be very easy if I was welding the whole top together, but because I've made it so it can be disassembled it is a bit more of a challenge. I'll ponder that while I go back into the workshop to make the passenger side jamb...
The jamb worked out very well, and bolts in place, so the top can still be disassembled for storage or whatever.
I'm still thinking about one thing - the jamb is recessed from the outer cab wall - if you look closely at the photos you can see this. I'm trying to decide if I will make a filler in the corner which would be flush with the outside wall of the hardtop. This would be very easy if I was welding the whole top together, but because I've made it so it can be disassembled it is a bit more of a challenge. I'll ponder that while I go back into the workshop to make the passenger side jamb...
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jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Got the driver's side jamb corner filler done today, this might be the most complicated piece of fabrication I've had to do on the pickup project so far 
. These fillers are part of the upper jamb assembly, and the entire jamb assembly is removable so the top can come apart. The first photo below shows the completed assembly.
Iin the next series of photos I'll explain what I did.
1. The jamb before the filler. Notice at (a) and (b) the reveal (gap) is different, it is bigger in the front than the back because the TJ doors arch up a bit (CJ doors don't do this). And at (c) there's a big "cavity" in the corner to fill.
2. Shows how deep the corner cavity is (about 3/4"). At (e) I've put a piece of 1/2" square tube stock to form the basis of the horizontal filler.
3. (f) is a line i drew along the jamb to mark where the reveal should be when the filler is completed. (g) is a piece of 3/4" angle, flush with the rear of the jamb assembly, this will support the 1/2" tubing at the top and a few other pieces to come.
4. (h) shows how I split the 1/2" tubing so I could spread it to make the filler wider at this point, this is to deal with the difference between distances (a) and (b) mentioned above. The gap will be filled with weld.
5. I've started to put the curved piece in, it is notched into the 1/2" tubing at (i). At (j) it is following the reveal line I drew; at (k) you can see the curved piece extends beyond the angle from (g) above. The angle is at the rear edge of the upper jamb, but the curved piece extends beyond to fill the jamb gap on the cab wall.
6. A piece of 1/2" tubing (m) is welded in place to cover the jamb gap on the cab wall.
7. (Not shown) A roughly triangular piece of 16-ga. steel is cut and welded over cavity in the corner.
When finished, the whole jamb assembly will be painted red to match the hardtop and the truck.
. These fillers are part of the upper jamb assembly, and the entire jamb assembly is removable so the top can come apart. The first photo below shows the completed assembly.Iin the next series of photos I'll explain what I did.
1. The jamb before the filler. Notice at (a) and (b) the reveal (gap) is different, it is bigger in the front than the back because the TJ doors arch up a bit (CJ doors don't do this). And at (c) there's a big "cavity" in the corner to fill.
2. Shows how deep the corner cavity is (about 3/4"). At (e) I've put a piece of 1/2" square tube stock to form the basis of the horizontal filler.
3. (f) is a line i drew along the jamb to mark where the reveal should be when the filler is completed. (g) is a piece of 3/4" angle, flush with the rear of the jamb assembly, this will support the 1/2" tubing at the top and a few other pieces to come.
4. (h) shows how I split the 1/2" tubing so I could spread it to make the filler wider at this point, this is to deal with the difference between distances (a) and (b) mentioned above. The gap will be filled with weld.
5. I've started to put the curved piece in, it is notched into the 1/2" tubing at (i). At (j) it is following the reveal line I drew; at (k) you can see the curved piece extends beyond the angle from (g) above. The angle is at the rear edge of the upper jamb, but the curved piece extends beyond to fill the jamb gap on the cab wall.
6. A piece of 1/2" tubing (m) is welded in place to cover the jamb gap on the cab wall.
7. (Not shown) A roughly triangular piece of 16-ga. steel is cut and welded over cavity in the corner.
When finished, the whole jamb assembly will be painted red to match the hardtop and the truck.
