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Sad day for a long time Jeep owner.

LetchcoreCJ7

Legacy Registered User
City
Nashville
State
TN
But thats the thing-It is Made in the Usa.
A Toyota Tundra is Made in the Usa.
So are we saying that a Toyota Made In the Usa is the Same as a Jeep made in the USA?
One of whose profits goes to Japan and The other to Italy?
I do not see any Politics here-Are we Changing the Definition of "Made in the usa"?
Are we as Jeep Lovers willing to accept This?Or Do we say No,we do not accept fraud as a way of doing business.
I am still looking for someone to show me the way back to JEEP.
If I want an Italian car,I would buy a Ferrari,If I want to get ripped off I would Bank at Wells Fargo.
Right now,I feel like selling My Dodge Ram,and Leaving Jeep Forever.
I would not even Be able to enter a new Jeep in an All American Car show.
I am Bummed out.

Not that I support Toyota but it's a publicly held company. The profits go all over the world to their share holders just like any other publicly held company.
 

Ron84cj

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
West Bend
State
WI
Every car company has pulled something at some point or another. In reality all vehicles are crap regardless of who built them. They all have plenty of cheap components that fail, rust, and break over not that long of a time frame. I understand why you are upset about this topic, but the American companies really aren't much better. It's sad. I just continue to enjoy my junk from the 80s. My 2 scramblers and firebird give me a big smile driving down the road with my wife and two kids. That's really all I care about. As far as the new "jeep" pickup, it's just going to be another really overpriced truck like all the other new trucks. If this whole fiat thing bothers you, don't buy one.
 

Cmath

Scrambler Enthusiast
Lifetime Member
SOA Member
City
Woodstock
State
Ga
People pay for after market programing for better performance . In this case the consumer is given a taste from the factory. Has anyone ever believed you are going to get the mpg that the manufacturer claims. We would all be riding bicycles if our driving choices were eco motivated. No such thing as a clean diesel ! I have 3 Audi Q7 TDI , Dodge 2500 5.9 and CJ7 4bt. Don't let it stress you out! Buy what you can afford and enjoy it while you can. Nothing lasts forever.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
You are right.
But I could not care less about MPG.
The question remains-if Fiat/VW/Audi Lies to its customers about MPG-What else are they lying to you about?
A liar is a liar and lies more to cover up past lies.
As a consumer,I can look beyond bad design choices,under powered engines,poor marketing etc.
I can look beyond honest mistakes.
But VW/Audi was not an honest mistake.
All Fiat had to do was come to the same realization as you did,that there is no such thing as a clean diesel in the US,and choose not to sell it in this country.
If they chose to defraud us instead,and we choose to ignore it-well then what does that say about us?
I have 2 friends that promptly gave up on VW/Audi for Ford and BMW.
I suspect I will give up on Jeep if it is found they Lied.
I hope they find that Fiat did not commit fraud,or Jeep gets sold to pay for their fines and reparations if they did.
I suspect we will know by the time the New Jeep Pick up comes out.
In the meantime,I will hold off on the SRT my wife wants for her Birthday.
Thanks to all for your insight,and lets hope this is not another VW inspired fraud.
 

Rosco1974

Scrambler Junkie
BENEFACTOR
Gold Member
Lifetime Member
City
West Haven
State
UT
I am honestly looking for insight as to why I should trust this company any more.

Ask the early Jeep 3.8L owners if they were taken care of on lifter noise/failure. Ask me if GM took care of me when my 2007 GMC 1500 SLT started burning significant oil @ 25K miles. The fact is you cannot trust companies. They have their interests at heart. Thats why there is consumer law.

You know why we all love old Jeeps? We have figured out most of the ways they can/will let us down and how to fix or prevent it.
 

Polarfire

Jeep Aficionado
Lifetime Member
City
Columbia
State
MO
You know why we all love old Jeeps? We have figured out most of the ways they can/will let us down and how to fix or prevent it.

^^^^ THIS^^^^

I don't want to go political here (and why I made the statement about this being a pointless thread because it cannot be fully discussed without going political) so I will just say IMO, the companies are not fully to blame but the EPA/Government/political groups have much more to do with this then just some companies wanting to "cheat the system".
 

cattleman1977

CJ-8 Member
City
Delavan
State
KS
IMO, the companies are not fully to blame but the EPA/Government/political groups have much more to do with this then just some companies wanting to "cheat the system".

Spot on! I have a 2008 Ram diesel that kept plugging the exhaust filter and said I needed dealer service. The problem was often I would drive it at about 15-20 MPH in the normal course of business. The solution was simple: delete the exhaust particulate filter along with some other emissions garbage. I got more power AND better mileage. The kicker was I had to spend $1500 AND sign a release stating the vehicle would only be operated "off-road" from then on... Yeah right!

Over regulation is why brand new vehicles cost 60K plus and fuel efficiency has been stuck in the teens for 30 years. If a company can engineer a vehicle to pass emissions standards using software preventing me from having to spend thousands to delete it so it is operable, great.

Bottom line is you have to go with your conscience and the rest of us will have to do the same. I personally am not going to lose one bit of sleep over it.

Oh, and that '08 3500? Still running like a top!
 

John N

Addicted....Ex-SOA VP
BENEFACTOR
Gold Member
Lifetime Member
SOA Member
City
Rockville
State
VA
I had a 2005 Ford F-250SD with the 6.0 diesel, ask me how well Ford treated me with that...
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
Ford did not defraud its customers in making a poorly designed motor.
They just made a bad decision in discontinuing the 7.3
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
But all Fiat had to do was not sell the diesel here.
No Fraud,just a business decision.
For VW,Fraud was their business decision.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
But none of that was outright fraud,just poor customer service.
And even old jeeps had to be new once.
 

Rosco1974

Scrambler Junkie
BENEFACTOR
Gold Member
Lifetime Member
City
West Haven
State
UT
Do you have a VW or Jeep diesel? I will make you an offer. I would love for this to drive down the value so I can buy one cheap.
 

jeepdreamer

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
Colorado Springs
State
CO
As someone who has longed for a diesel Jeep I offer nothing to that part of the discussion. I thought they hit a homerun with the mb diesel in the GC. I also thought the 2.8 VM diesel in the lib had hope but that was proven a disaster.
As I understand it, VM is an Italian company. They built the libs horrible 2.8 and are building the 3.0 for the current line, yes?
While I'd like to think they learned from the 2.8 issues... only time will tell on the new motor, if it's allowed to continue being sold.
I'm also a guy who is presently going through the VW nightmare. Wife bought her 2013 tdi Jetta sportwagon new. Car is flawless. Yet here we are trying to turn in a perfectly good vehicle because the powers that be decided it isn't "green" enough and have issued orders which essentially have us paying for a car that is nearly valueless. I hate this.

What bothers me most is it almost seems like there is a quiet war against diesels, mostly here in the states. Why we can't embrace its benefits is simply beyond my ken. But it seems like every time diesel begins to grow legs, gain a smidgen of popularity, something comes along to smash it flat. Don't believe me? Try to find a company near you that sells Biodiesel.
The government was all over having people (companies) doing the leg work to refine how to make it work. A petroleum free fuel source. Then.. mysteriously, all the major places who had begun to grow their bio business were suddenly disappeared. Why?
Why do cars (and jeeps) that run excellently being suddenly targeted as evil, cheating, ozone killers? I don't know. I'm not a tin foil hat kinda guy but I am a very disappointed diesel fan who believes there is something more to all this than simply the diesels emissions systems.


 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
Well here is another aspect,A close friend has a recalled VW diesel-and she replaced it on VW's word that they would take the diesel back.
That was fine while she was still considering a VW SUV (Gas).
But once she purchased a BMW instead,she was told she would have to wait for an email from the corporate offices of VW.
So in her driveway it sits,she can't sell it,she can't turn it in.
VW lied to her again,she was told she would turn it in last November,here it is 2 months later,she must insure it because of the loan,she must make the car loan which is through VW,but she can only drive one car at a time.
Granted the second issue was her fault,she did not get the trade in date in writing,she went by what she was told at the dealer.
How in the world can you buy an affected diesel now?
We don't know if they CAN fix it to get emissions in this country.
And if they can fix it,it may get the same MPG as a gas version.
Or they may choose to drill a 3 inch hole in the block and sell them to China for scrap,or they can sell them to other nations,but they simply may cease to exist in this country.
More lies to cover old lies is what it boils down to.
 

barrys

Scrambler Junkie
Lifetime Member
City
East Norriton
State
PA
Why can't an affected VW diesel be sold and are are current owners making out ok with the buyback when it happens?

Sent from my SM-J320P
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
You are completely correct.
So why didn't Fiat just come out and say "the diesel laws in this country are ridiculous,and we won't produce them in this country".
Why choose to commit fraud?
Toyota sells diesels in other nations,and sell none in this country,and they are the biggest carmaker in the world(or close to it).
They chose not to commit fraud.
VW/Audi and now perhaps Fiat/Jeep/Ram chose to commit fraud.
So my question to you directly,someone who has been defrauded by VW-
Will you buy any VW again?
Would you buy any Brand new Fiat?Jeep again?
I am not asking to prove a point or to be a Jerk-I want to know if someone can get passed these issues or am I done with JEEP as long as they are owned by Fiat?
 

Polarfire

Jeep Aficionado
Lifetime Member
City
Columbia
State
MO
Ford had exploding gas tanks and knew it, GM had bad ignition switches and knew it....
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
Who would buy a VW diesel knowing it may have to be scrapped?
The one VW diesel owner I know is unable to turn in her VW, she tried,they won't take it,she was told to wait for notification,will it happen in a month?In a year?
Unknown.
Her VW is affected,a price was determined,but it is not as simple as just turning it in,they won't take it.
The fact is,VW is only accepting Diesels if they trade them in for a Gas VW,everybody else has to wait.
 

Elvis

Basic User
City
Berthoud
State
Co
But they did not conspire ahead of the fact to create an exploding gas tank,GM did not conspire to create a poor ignition switch.
Damage control and poor customer service is different than sitting down with your engineers and figuring out a way to defraud buyers into thinking they were getting a fuel efficient diesel that complies with EPA specs.
I don't see a parallel here.
 
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