spankrjs's Biloxi, MS '83 Scrambler

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Even though my 258 head only had two of the three studs, when the wire retainer is pushed down on the other two studs, the center non-studded portion is held down by the center leg of the wire retainer.

IMG_20190709_185035614.jpg

This keeps the heat shield "up", not "down", resting on the intake.

I pulled the injectors from the fuel rail, and wrapped it next.

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I slid the fuel supply port/schrader valve through their holes in the heat wrap first, then tucked the four fuel rail "legs" through their slots in the heat wrap.

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Next, I pulled the wrap over/through the six injector ports.

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Finally, wrapped the wrap around, secured the velcro. Fits like a glove.

IMG_20190709_191650129.jpg
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Now, before everybody thinks everything went fine, it did not. When I pulled the fuel rail off, brownish fluid came out, and some other "stuff".

IMG_20190709_183054751.jpg

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This should not be? New tank, all new fuel lines, new fuel pump, new filter, new fuel rail, new injectors. I thought the stuff was rust/dirt, but it isn't. I let the stuff sit in a cup overnight, to let the cleaner evaporate. I stuck my finger in it the next morning, the "stuff" is soft, NOT sand or rust? I rubbed it between two fingers, nothing hard, and it just turns to brown liquid?

IMG_20190710_073315800.jpg

I am not sure what this crap is? It is very fine, and it obviously went through the OEM Grand Cherokee fuel filter?

The injector ports in the fuel rail had deposits of this stuff, too.

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When I first saw it, I was really concerned. I thought it was sand/sediment/rust, and maybe it damaged the injectors. But, it is soft, brown, "stuff"? With the dead head fuel rail, whatever makes it past the filter gets trapped in the fuel rail. Since it is soft, I don't think it hurt the injectors.

I labeled the injectors, sprayed cleaner inside each one.

IMG_20190709_190204590.jpg

No "stuff" came out of the injectors?

Since I do not have any "performance" issues, I think i am just going to reinstall the injectors and see how it does. The "stuff" was not sediment or rust, so I don't know. The "stuff" might be dissolved paint from inside the fuel rail?

One other note - if you pull the fuel rail/injectors, you will probably damage the O-rings. The DEI kit came with 12 new ones, I probably damaged half the old ones.

IMG_20190709_190213224.jpg

One O-Ring was really tore up, and I don't think I did it. I had no fuel leaks, but maybe it was sucking in air??

Also, since I found the "stuff" in the rail, AND I have 60 PSI at the rail, I am going to change out my combination fuel filter/regulator. Maybe the filter is damaged, allowing some crap to flow through, maybe the internal diaphragm is damaged causing 60 PSI instead of 50 PSI??
 

ag4ever

Average Nut
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Richmond
State
TX
Brown stuff might be algae? Stuff grows like crazy in warm wet diesel and since ethanol is hygroscopic it might grow there too? Just a thought. (Usually the filters will catch that though.)

I wonder if a heat shield over the exhaust manifold would help isolate the intake from the heat?

Only 2 places I can see the fuel line heat soaking are where it runs up the driver side of the block past the exhaust manifold and in the fuel rails. The DEI kit should fix the rails, but it might not hurt to get a length of the DEI shield and sleeve the line as it goes up the side of the block on the driver's side.
 

bigwalton

Picture cravin' AK Postal nut
Staff member
SOA Member
City
Dexter
State
MI
The o-rings, draining/removing the fuel line and potentially bending the rail are all avoided by just cutting slits to the holes for the injectors and fuel line in the rail heat shield. Cuts the install time by about a factor of about 20 and makes it really just a matter of pulling the bolts to the rail to slip things in. I don’t see how it decreases the performance of anything and has stayed in place just fine. FWIW.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Brown stuff might be algae? Stuff grows like crazy in warm wet diesel and since ethanol is hygroscopic it might grow there too? Just a thought. (Usually the filters will catch that though.)

I wonder if a heat shield over the exhaust manifold would help isolate the intake from the heat?

Only 2 places I can see the fuel line heat soaking are where it runs up the driver side of the block past the exhaust manifold and in the fuel rails. The DEI kit should fix the rails, but it might not hurt to get a length of the DEI shield and sleeve the line as it goes up the side of the block on the driver's side.
On the brown stuff, no idea. I will investigate it some more tonight.

A shield between the two manifolds would be great, not sure there is room to make it happen?

Some additional shields on the fuel line would not hurt, but they all have a good "air gap" around them already.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
The o-rings, draining/removing the fuel line and potentially bending the rail are all avoided by just cutting slits to the holes for the injectors and fuel line in the rail heat shield. Cuts the install time by about a factor of about 20 and makes it really just a matter of pulling the bolts to the rail to slip things in. I don’t see how it decreases the performance of anything and has stayed in place just fine. FWIW.
Your right, but think of all the fun and discoveries I would have missed :thumbsup::wave:
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
A few more pictures, of injectors.

My red Scrambler has the 91-95 style 4.0 MPI, it runs at 39psi.

IMG_20190710_072519925.jpg

Part number on the injector.

IMG_20190710_072551355.jpg

This is the "dual line" fuel rail; the pressure regulator on the rail, so there is a return line.

IMG_20190710_072734207.jpg


My green Scrambler has the 96 and up style 4.0 MPI, it runs at 49psi, no regulator/return line on the rail. A few pictures of the injectors.

IMG_20190709_221101947.jpg

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Both injectors are the "single hole" variety.

IMG_20190709_221048406.jpg

You can Google that and find out all kinds of interesting stuff about how more holes in the injectors are better.

Nothing of value, just a few pictures.

I wonder if the brown stuff in the fuel rail is algae, from letting the Scrambler sit up last year when I went through the chemo??
 

Ron84cj

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
West Bend
State
WI
Looks like the same crap that comes out of my carburetor in my lawnmower if I forget to drain it in the fall. I THINK it's from the ethanol gas. I've never seen it when I use ethanol free gas.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Looks like the same crap that comes out of my carburetor in my lawnmower if I forget to drain it in the fall. I THINK it's from the ethanol gas. I've never seen it when I use ethanol free gas.
Could be. I have been using "E" gas in this one, it sat up for awhile. I'm going to put it back together and try to burn a tank of fuel through it :fingerscrossed:
 

Belizeit

CJ-8 Member
CJ-8.com Member
City
River Ridge
State
La
Wonder if it could be that very dirty crude the refineries use in this area that has been coming out of Venezuela for many years. I know it is being boycotted now, but described as very dark tar like
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
A few more pictures to finish this project up.

Time to reinstall the injectors back into the fuel rail, with new O-rings. I used generous amounts of Dielectric Grease as lube, worked out well.

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All the injectors back inside the rail. They pushed in easy enough, with a snug feel when bottomed out in the rail.

IMG_20190710_182006169 - Copy.jpg

I also lubed the lower O-rings, ready to stick the fuel rail/injectors back into the intake manifold.

IMG_20190710_182012667.jpg

All my parts are new, so not much cleaning necessary. But, make sure the injector holes are cleaned out to avoid damaging the O-rings.

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Installing the fuel rail is a hair tricky, not terrible. I just made sure all the injectors were in their holes, gently pushed down, going back and forth down the rail. I then installed/snugged down the four fuel rail retaining bolts.

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I then reinstalled the six injector clips.

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Next, I started to experiment with wrapping the injectors. I first wrapped an injector without it being plugged in. This will not work. So, plugged in all six injectors, then wrapped them, worked much better.

IMG_20190710_184150320.jpg
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
The #2, #3, and #4 injectors, I had to trim the large intake shield to get the injector wraps around the injectors. It was too tight, no gap.

After trimming, fits well.

IMG_20190710_184156667.jpg

Before trimming, no bueno.

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I only trimmed a sliver of material off, just enough for the injector wrap to fully wrap around each injector.

A few random pictures, showing the injectors with their wraps installed. The wraps fit tight around the injectors.

IMG_20190710_185542267.jpg

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Reinstalled the throttle cable bracket, throttle cable, and plugged back in all the sensors I disconnected, finished.

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The fuel rail fuel supply connection is loose in the above pictures, more on that in a bit,

So, key to "On" 3 times, then Start. It fired up, ran rough a second or two, then smoothed out.

No fuel leaks, very happy about that, especially when you are dealing with 12 O-Rings!!!!!!!

With the tropical storm weather, it has cooled down, and raining, so I will have to test this out once it gets real hot again/stops raining.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Before I reconnected the fuel line to the fuel rail, I stuck the end of it in a clear bottle, turned the key on three times, and pumped some fuel out of the tank. I wanted to see what it looks like.

Anyway, looks OK to me, no brown stuff or particulates.

IMG_20190710_191206967.jpg

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Clear to slightly yellow.

I am going to re-check the fuel pressure, and if it is still at 60 psi, i am going to change the combination fuel filter/regulator out.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
So, I was able to test drive the Scrambler this weekend in between rain showers. It was a bit cooler, highs around 90 with high humidity. I never had any issues while driving. After driving for an hour, with the engine still running, the fuel rail/injectors were still pretty cool. The intake was super hot. BUT, after shutting down the engine, the fuel rail and injectors got as hot as the intake manifold. After five minutes, i restarted, and it was missing. Not as bad as before, and I was able to clear it out with some throttle.

BUT, I think I might have found my issue. Remember the gas that I pumped out of the tank, it looked fine.

IMG_20190710_191227696.jpg

BUT, after sitting for two days in the closed up glass bottle, it looks like this:

IMG_20190714_154026763.jpg

IMG_20190714_154026763 - Copy.jpg

I believe I have some water in the fuel. The water over saturated the ethanol in the gasoline, and it falls out of suspension. Water/ethanol in the bottom, pure gas on top. The bottom layer is kind of "thicker" then the top layer, it moves differently.

I assume that when I drive, the fuel in the tank get sloshed around some, so I am picking up gas and the sludge at the bottom.

I am not having any noticeable issue while I am driving, BUT I do keep getting this Code:

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IMG_20190714_161352026.jpg IMG_20190714_161354835.jpg IMG_20190714_161358748.jpg IMG_20190714_161402496.jpg

I am assuming the contaminated fuel is burning leaner then normal?

I have half of a 15 gallon tank left. I am going to drive it some more and try to burn some of this crap out of the tank. Then, pump the rest of it out and dispose of it. Refill with new, hopefully good fuel, and drive it some more.
 

Ron84cj

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
West Bend
State
WI
A bit "cooler" with highs around 90? Lol. Up here in Wisconsin people are complaining when it hits 80.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Last year, when I went through Chemo, I did not drive either Scrambler that much. They both sat in the garage from March until August/September. I was more "careful" about putting non-ethanol gas/stabilizer in the green Scrambler because I did not drive it as much. The red Scrambler almost always gets regular "E" pump gas because I drive it more often.

I have not had any problems with the Red Scrambler. I did drive it to Utah and back earlier this year, so I assume any "bad" fuel got diluted and burned up on this trip. Lot's of gas stops on the trip there and back, many of them with the 20 gallon tank requiring 18-19 gallons to fill. I had one minor "vapor lock" issue on this trip, when the tank was low, at altitude, working the engine hard. It sputtered some, but never quit.

Both vehicles have all new fuel vapor lines, and gas caps, so no fuel odors in the garage. The red Scrambler has a "new" vapor canister on it, the one that came with the Mopar MPI kit. The green Scrambler has Mopar MPI, but the later kits did not come with a new vapor canister because the canisters are no longer made. So, I bought a used canister off of eBay. I assume it is OK. Not sure if the "used canister" is allowing more atmospheric moisture into the fuel system?

Just strange to have this issue with one Scrambler, and not the other one. The differences between the two:

1) Red Scrambler has 20 gallon OEM tank, Green Scrambler has 15 gallon OEM tank
2) Red Scrambler 39psi and return line on fuel rail, Green Scrambler 49psi (60psi actual) and no return line on the rail
3) Red Scrambler has "new" vapor canister, Green Scrambler has "used" vapor canister
4) Red Scrambler has external fuel pump, Green Scrambler has internal fuel pump
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
A bit "cooler" with highs around 90? Lol. Up here in Wisconsin people are complaining when it hits 80.
:thumbsup:

Before the storm, last week highs were in the mid 90's, with the humidity, it felt like 107.
This weekend, highs in the upper 80's, with the humidity if felt like high 90's.

The humidity down here is brutal. When you step outside you are instantly "wearing" the weather :crazy:
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Cleared out the "Code #51" Trouble code yesterday, Jeep started up fine, drove fine. First 15 minutes, driving around town, no codes. When you put the scan tool on "Operating Data", and look at this O2 sensor screen, you can see that the O2 sensor is working as it should. It rapidly jumps around, "Rich/Center/Lean", over and over again.

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The Scrambler drove fine. I got on the highway, drove at 75-80 MPH, ran a scan while driving, Trouble Code #51, again. The Jeep drives fine. Once this Code #51 trips, the O2 sensor screen stay stuck on "Lean". So, I presume the engine goes into a predefined air/fuel mixture, ignores the O2 sensor. I know it starts eating gas when it does this, too, LOL.

Drove the Scrambler for 45 minutes straight at 75-80 MPH, no problems. Drove it home, turned it off. Cleared the trouble code out. Immediately restarted, no problems at all with the hot restart, no misses or stumbling.

The only difference from yesterdays drives from previous drives - I did NOT use the AC. Not sure if that matters, but I think it does. With no AC on, outside temp at 90, with humidity if felt like 97, engine stayed between 193 - 196. Previous trips with the AC on, the engine gets to around 203. Not sure if that matters, since my LJ runs at 210.

I am going to run it some more, I am down to a quarter of a tank. I will then siphon the remaining gas out of the tank, fill it with new gas, see if that solves my problems. I might just have shit gas, that's causing the Code #51.

I am also going to check for vacuum leaks (both manifolds, vacuum lines and fittings, throttle body, O2 sensor) because I am pretty sure that will cause a "lean" condition.
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Drove around for an hour and a half last night, mixed city and sustained high speed highway driving, no trouble codes, no problems, AC turned OFF the entire time. Temperature in the mid 90's.

Checked for vacuum leaks, none.

Hot restarts, no problems at all.

Driving fine now. It should almost be out of gas. I am going to drive it another 20 miles or so, then siphon out the remaining 1-1.5 gallons of gas, if I don't run out first.

Maybe it just had crap gas? I put a container of water remover in the tank on Sunday, maybe it helped, who knows :shrug:
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
LIFETIME
CJ-8.com Member
City
Biloxi
State
MS
Finally ran it almost out of gas last night.

Stopped at a red light, hard acceleration into a 90 degree turn from a stop, got that little "no fuel pick up hesitation", smoothed out on the straight away, stopped at the closest gas station.

Originally, I was going to pump out the remaining gas, but what ever is left in the tank is burning fine.

I have a 15 gallon tank, OEM gauge , this is where the gauge was at:

IMG_20190717_175820501_HDR.jpg

And what it took to fill it up.

IMG_20190717_180349910.jpg

Happy about that. I can "safely" suck out 14.2 gallons out of the 15 gallon tank. I was worried about this before, with regards to how I installed my in tank pump, but I am not worried anymore. On a flat, straight highway, I could probably suck the tank dry.

And full, happy my OEM gauge is still working, probably just cursed myself.

IMG_20190717_180959322_HDR.jpg

I filled it up with 93 octane "pump" gas. I plan on driving the piss out of it over the next few weeks, so not too concerned about the "E" factor.

Anyway, no AC on, drove perfect, all the way to the gas station.

Filled it up, started it up, turned the AC on, drove perfect for about 10 minutes mixed city/back highway driving. Got it on the four lane, 70 MPH, after about 3-4 minutes, check engine light, same Code #51 Running Lean.

Pulled over, Turned the Jeep off. Key back on, cleared out the code. Immediately started it back up, no hot restart issues. Turned the AC off, drove it some more, no check engine light, running fine, O2 sensor working properly.

So, it would seem that somehow the AC is a contributing factor. It does put a slight load on the engine, but not that great of a load where the computer should not be able to compensate?

Temperature with no AC = 193-196
Temperature with AC = 196 - 203

I don't think the slight increase in operating temperature is a factor, my LJ runs at 210 all day long.

On the electrical side, the computer is seeing a constant 13.9 volts, AC off or on. The larger alternator makes this possible. With the stock size alternator, the voltage would dip below 12 with the AC on.

So, I don't think the slight electrical consumption from the AC fan is causing a "brown out" condition.

On the compressor, when the clutch engages, I do see a 100 RPM drop at idle. I drilled a hole in the throttle plate to allow enough air flow at idle because the IAC valve could not compensate. So, at idle, no AC, the idle speed is 836 RPM. With AC on, 736 RPM. The AC works perfectly, so I do not think I have some weird compressor issue causing a super parasitic drag on the engine, especially at 70 MPH/2,000 RPM.

I called HESCO this morning and talked with them about this issue. They, like me, are thinking/suggesting a simple fix first, swap in a new O2 sensor and see if that clears it up. I have a spare already, so easy enough to do.

But, seems strange that if the O2 sensor is bad/contaminated, it would only trip the code with the AC on? The current O2 sensor is a Mopar unit, with only maybe 1,000 miles on it, but who knows?
 
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