Another Scrambler Purchase/Road Trip - UPDATE- BODY ON FRAME AGAIN

Cursivearmy

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Lincoln
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Man, let me just say that this whole thread has always been an inspiration to me. Your work and attention to all the little details makes this such an awesome build and scrambler to aspire to!

Stoked to follow the progress on the new motor, very cool to see. I really wish I had gone this route back in the unities when my 258 pooped out. Someday .

Say, one question, I'm about to repaint my factory 15x8's, they are white but original from 1982 and could use a refresh.

If you don't mind me asking what is the specific "white" that you used? Is it Olympic white? That was the original color of my jeep.

Thank you! Stoked to see more progress and some trip pics of your redone scrambler with the 4.0!!
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
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Biloxi
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MS
Man, let me just say that this whole thread has always been an inspiration to me. Your work and attention to all the little details makes this such an awesome build and scrambler to aspire to!

Stoked to follow the progress on the new motor, very cool to see. I really wish I had gone this route back in the unities when my 258 pooped out. Someday .

Say, one question, I'm about to repaint my factory 15x8's, they are white but original from 1982 and could use a refresh.

If you don't mind me asking what is the specific "white" that you used? Is it Olympic white? That was the original color of my jeep.

Thank you! Stoked to see more progress and some trip pics of your redone scrambler with the 4.0!!
Appreciate it, glad that all this stuff is useful to you :cheers:

As for the white paint, no idea, unfortunately:(

I just let the shop paint them with whatever "bright white" paint that they had.

I hope to have many more trips/adventures with this one :fingerscrossed: :thumbsup: :wave:
 

spankrjs

Scrambler Junkie
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Biloxi
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MS
Quick update on this one. I have been running Warn Full Floating rear axles, with lock in hubs, in the rear of this Scrambler for over 30,000 miles. Recently, I have noticed a little lash in the drive train, mainly noticeable while shifting gears, or slightly letting off the throttle while decelerating. Not terrible, but noticeable. My tan Scrambler, also running Warn Full Floating rear axles, with lock in hubs, in the rear, also developed this "lash". On my tan Scrambler, I swapped the lock in hubs out in favor of drive flanges. I decided to do the same with this Scrambler.

The people who made the drive flanges that I used in my tan Scrambler are no longer in business, so I purchased some 30 spline Dana 44 drive flanges, made by RCV, from BJ's Offroad:




The red dust covers match the paint LOL. A few quick install pictures, pretty straight forward, even thought the parts did not come with any installation instructions.

Rear hub, lock in hub components removed, excess grease wiped out, wheel bearing outer lock nut visible, no that that's important just yet:




Installing a drive slug. I wiped a thin coat of oil over the outer/inner splines to make installation a bit easier. The slugs come with two threaded holes. I installed bolts in the two holes, then gently tapped the drive slugs into place:




After installing the slugs, this metal part with the three threaded holes goes in. I also reinstalled the axle shaft retaining clip at this time.




The Warn lock in hubs use a big metal "C" clip to retain the inner hub part. RCV supplied these thingies:




To install the weird "thingies", kind of spread it out, start one end, then kind of push each "strip" around and in. Actually works pretty good, a bit easier to remove compared to the usual big snap "C" ring thingies:




Snap ring "thingy" installed fully in the hub groove:




I then oiled up the dust cover o-ring, installed it on the back of the dust cover:




Tightened down the three, pre-lock-tited cap screws, finished:




With the new drive flanges installed, the lash that was present with the rear lock in hubs is gone. After swapping out the rear full float axle kit lock in hubs on both my Scramblers that are so equipped, and a buddy with my old CJ-7 that had the Warn Full Float axle kit installed, I will make a recommendation: Unless you flat tow often, I would just start out with the drive flanges.

One "issue" - the stock center caps WILL NOT clear these drive flanges. There is very slight interference. I am going to clean out the gunk that has accumulated inside the center caps and see if they will fit. If they wont fit, then I will either lightly bore out the center caps, or space them out a hair, depending on how much interference there is. It was really close with the Warn internal mount hubs, but they cleared. The OD of the drive flange cap is just a hair too much.
 

spankrjs

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I briefly alluded to the "wheel bearing outer lock nut" in the above post.

On my last off road trip, I got stuck up against a boulder and a tree. In order to get free, we winched the rear end sideways. Probably should have jacked it up, but we just kind of drug it sideways. The ground was muddy.

Anyway, when I pulled off the tires, I noticed that both rear hubs wheel bearing were a hair loose. The outer nuts were still tight. I assume that the sideways pulling caused this :shrug:

Anyway, I had to loosen the outer lock nuts, which are tightened to 150 foot pounds :eek:

Both the inner, and outer, wheel bearing lock nuts are the what I call "Ford/Fullsize Jeep four square slot" style. In order to keep the socket on the outer nut, while tightening or loosening, I do this:



By putting the jack under the socket, it keeps it from wanting to slip downward. 150 foot pounds is a bunch, this little trick helps me keep the socket squarely on the nut :thumbsup: :wave:

EDIT - after adjusting the inner nuts on both sides, I can safely say that all the rear wheel bearing are still in good shape. Both sides spin free. Just be careful with those side pulls :twocents::rolleyes:
 

CJ7Pilot

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Yuba City
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CA
...I will make a recommendation: Unless you flat tow often, I would just start out with the drive flanges....
I may just do that. I'll be installing a used set soon, and I'll bet the splined slugs are worn just like you describe.

Also, I can tell that one of the locking hubs was leaking oil before, and drive flanges would eliminate that issue.

Thanks for the info! :thumbsup:
 

spankrjs

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Biloxi
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I may just do that. I'll be installing a used set soon, and I'll bet the splined slugs are worn just like you describe.

Also, I can tell that one of the locking hubs was leaking oil before, and drive flanges would eliminate that issue.

Thanks for the info! :thumbsup:
No problem, glad it is helpful :cheers:

Yep, the hub dials do tend to leak a little oil/grease. Usually not a lot, but enough to make the wheels nasty. The stock center caps do a good job of catching the crud :thumbsup: The drive flanges do eliminate to leaks, and a little drive line slack that develops as the hubs rack up the miles. So far, I have found that any 30 spline Dana 44 drive flanges will work :fingerscrossed:

I need to see, and report back, what it is going to take to run the factory center caps with the new drive flanges :popcorn:

I fully agree with this thinking, which means exactly nothing but it felt good to write :cheers:
Glad I could help :rotfl: :wave:
 

mhinchliffe

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W-S
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NC
I used the term "thing-a-ma-jig" in a room full of engineers the other day and it stuck! That's what we called the particular item for the duration of the project......all this brain power and just look.....
 

spankrjs

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Biloxi
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I will include this engine update on this thread, since this engine originally came out of this Scrambler. Any future information/install/updates on this engine will be in my Green Scrambler thread :crazy:

I drove my red Scrambler up to Birmingham, AL, and back yesterday, around 9-10 hours of interstate driving. I picked up the old 4.2 engine, that I pulled out of the red Scrambler, when I installed the new Hesco 4.0. The 4.0/new drive flanges did fine, no problems at all yesterday :thumbsup:

The old 4.2 had a "tick" consistent with RPM, low oil pressure (around 5psi at idle, around 25-30psi at 2,500 RPM), and a slight oil leak at the front end. I had Hesco completely rebuild this engine and I will be installing it in my 1983 Green Scrambler.

Anyway, a few pictures.

Besides the cracked piston skirt, all the other internal components did show wear, but no other major problems.

Old valves, lifters, oil pump, timing chain, cam bearings, main bearings, etc. The lifters were just starting to barely "mushroom", the main bearings were just beginning to wear into the copper.




The old pistons, timing gears, etc:




The old camshaft, showing some wear on the bearing journals/lobes:




I had reused this timing chain cover when I resealed this engine, back when I rebuilt the whole Scrambler. It had a previous weld repair, either the harmonic balancer rubbed a hole in it, timing chain failure, not sure. Anyway, it had developed a hairline crack off the of the big weld repair, so that was the source of my slight front of engine oil leak.




Pretty new engine strapped down for the long ride:




Back home, ready to unload, safe and sound:




In the above picture, you can see the new drive flanges without the factory center caps installed. I need to get the center caps back on!!!!!!!

You can also kind of see how the rear end squatted down some from the engine weight. It drove and handled fine, but it did squat. When I hauled the 4.0 engine in the back of the tan Scrambler, which I had added an extra main leaf to each Rubicon Express spring pack, no squat. So, if you plan on hauling heavy stuff around a bunch, I would recommend adding an extra main leaf to the Rubicon Express rear leaf packs :twocents:

Red Scrambler should be ready for the National in June, now to start working on the Green Scrambler.

That's it for now :wave:
 

Cursivearmy

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Lincoln
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Ne
A question if I may.

I'm sure you've had many different manufactures of springs over the years, as have had i on my scrambler.

When you put your rock hard bumper and tire on yours plus some camping gear did the RE springs handle thst okay?

I ask because my (arguably the cheap option) rough country 4" springs didn't handle the extra weight of the rock hard bumper plus 33" KM2 and camping gear without sagging an 1.5" on the passenger side and caused the top of the spring to swing up and bang into the spring perch bolts, when driving down the highway the other day and going up and over bridges where the road is super bumpy. That's when it was easiest to hear. These springs are only 3 years old and the jeep has never been loaded.

I wonder if I could add a spring as you did? Or maybe I have a blown shock or cracked leaf. Need to investigate.

I mainly camp and light 4wd with the scrambler but it might be time for a quality set of springs like your RE springs or the Old man emu kit those guys build who build your rock sliders.

Rambling, apologies
 
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spankrjs

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Biloxi
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A question if I may.

I'm sure you've had many different manufactures of springs over the years, as have had i on my scrambler.

When you put your rock hard bumper and tire on yours plus some camping gear did the RE springs handle thst okay?

I ask because my (arguably the cheap option) rough country 4" springs didn't handle the extra weight of the rock hard bumper plus 33" KM2 and camping gear without sagging an 1.5" on the passenger side and caused the top of the spring to swing up and bang into the spring perch bolts, when driving down the highway the other day and going up and over bridges where the road is super bumpy. That's when it was easiest to hear. These springs are only 3 years old and the jeep has never been loaded.

I wonder if I could add a spring as you did? Or maybe I have a blown shock or cracked leaf. Need to investigate.

I mainly camp and light 4wd with the scrambler but it might be time for a quality set of springs like your RE springs or the Old man emu kit those guys build who build your rock sliders.

Rambling, apologies
No problem :cheers:

I have had "some" spring experience, but most of the springs I used to run came from a long time ago, not sure if the manufacturers have changed them :shrug:

The 4" Superlift springs that came on the tan Scrambler were "new", but from the 90's. It took over 1,000 pounds of gravel in the bed to get them to start to move.
I had older Rancho 2.5" lift springs on a CJ-7 back in the 90's, they were way too stiff, too.

The Rubicon Express springs are much softer, so they ride much smoother. However, that softer spring rating means they do squat more with a heavy load, like an engine in the back. But, not excessively.

On my red Scrambler, the original RE springs have over 30,000 miles of highway/off road usage. All four have settled some, but they still ride smooth, and do not ever feel "too soft" driving interstate speeds with the bed full of camping stuff, or an engine in the back. Important note, red Scrambler has 4.0/Ox locker in the rear.

On my tan Scrambler, the RE springs felt too "soft/loose" driving interstate speeds with the bed loaded down, once the springs broke in. I added one extra main leaf to each rear spring pack, fixed that issue. Important note, tan Scrambler has a fuel injected 350/Detroit Locker in the rear.

The tan Scrambler feels a hair firmer then the red Scrambler with the added leaf, but still drives smooth/soft. Eventually, if the red Scrambler springs start to feel too soft/loose, I will add a main leaf too each pack.

All in all, I am happy with the RE springs. They have settled some on my red Scrambler, BUT that Scrambler has been used pretty aggressively, and has a front winch/heavy rear bumper tire carrier.

Another important note - I run a front sway bar on both Scramblers, it really keeps the body roll to a minimum when running soft springs.

I would start out with the stock RE spring packs, see how it handles/if you like it. Then and only then, add an extra leaf to each rear pack, if needed :twocents::thumbsup:

BigWalton has some kind of new BDS springs on his postal, and his postal is probably heavier/loaded down with more stuff then my red Scrambler, need him to chime in on his new springs, especially since he had been running RE springs :smokin:
 

bigwalton

Picture cravin' AK Postal nut
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I ran RE 4.5" springs as they came from RE in 2005 until last year. They'd squatted quite a bit (no specific measurements) but I'm running body armor and a full cage and load it up for trips with a full size spare in the bed under a storage rack setup. I put tens of thousands of miles on them doing highway driving to/from events all over the country and wheeling it reasonably hard, often with two adults and our daughter in the back. I always loved the RE setup and they rode great. I got a lot of comments from folks who couldn't believe how smoothly they ran on the road and they never left me wanting for flex. I didn't run a swaybar after about 2007, there was some body roll, but not enough for me to want to bother with disconnects.

I did switch to the BDS 5" CJ lift kit setup right before driving mine out to EJS from MI last spring (2016.) The BDS springs are super supple and I've had to mess with the rear packs pretty significantly. I added a full-length add-a-leaf to both rear packs and I consider that mandatory for any Scrambler.

I still have a fairly severe problem of "CJ lean" to the right that's compounded significantly by the fact that my big butt sits on the right, which is the same side the engine torque pulls down. When I put the Jeep in gear, the right side squats immediately from the torque (I have a 4.0L)

I added the thickest add-a-leaf BDS offers in the rear right side (in addition to the first one) to try to offset this and it helped to correct the lean and I had to reinstall my swaybar (another requirement IMO with these springs.)

I need to play with it some more, possibly pulling a leaf out of the front left, as I'm not 100% happy where it is right now after a few thousand miles and wheeling at EJS, last year's national in SD (drove there from MI too) and at the Silver Lake Sand Dunes here in MI.

I think a "normal" left-hand drive Scrambler could be good to go with just the CJ lift kit, one full-length AAL and a swaybar. My issue is specific to my right-hand drive.

Lean aside, the road ride and wheeling flex is almost too good to be true. Note that I also added Fox shocks and did the Ford front shock towers at the same time I put in the BDS kit.

This was on the JKS/BDS run on Golden Spike at EJS. Not a harcore flex shot, but I was solo and don't have a lot of action photos from that ride.
Postal_Golden_Spike_JKS_Run_EJS2106.jpg

I did a writeup on the install and everything for JPFreek: http://currentissue.jpfreek.com/publication/?i=303540&ver=html5&p=84
 

Cursivearmy

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Lincoln
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Wow! Thanks to both of you for the information! So much to sift through and read up on.

I really appreciate all of this.

In the 90's I ran a rancho 2.5" and thought it was super duper stiff.

Then I switched to the super lift 2.5" and felt it was just as stiff but gave up and used them till 3 years ago.

Then 3 years ago I needed to rebuild the small block 400 that is in the scrambler but also wanted to go to a 4" kit, thus I settled on the rough country for price. Thy have ridden super soft and comfy, until I added the rock hard rear bumper and full size spare two weeks ago and lots of lean and that bottoming out on the spring hangars. I run the sway bars.

Looks like I will need to invest in either of these two setups, as I would rather have the wider style springs and not put more money into these springs.

Out of curiousity have you guys known anyone to run the YJ OME springs on a scrambler? I have OME springs on my Toyota and they are pretty great.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Back to the topic at hand. Raymond, did you get your center caps sorted?

Appreciate all of you guys on here.
 

Randyzzz

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One last thought on RE springs. I have the 4.5 Extreme kit with the wider front springs. Super flexy, sway not too bad without sway bars. I've added a lot of weight between a V8 and a full cage. My only complaint is the sagging. The front has sagged over 1 1/2" from new, and the rear has sagged 1". I guess I'm lucky my 35" BFG's are an inch shorter than advertised... Now, with springs this flexy I guess those are the breaks. RE offered to replace them, even to upgrade the fronts to a set of stiffer rears, but I don't think that will offer a long term solution. I hate the thought of add-a-leafs because that sort of eliminates the purpose of getting flexy springs. I think that if for some reason I end up keeping my Copper 82, there's a 4 link with coilovers in the future. But only if I don't sell. On my Red 81, I really don't know what I'm planning. I don't want much if any lift, but I want a stable solid platform. It's going to be my lifetime keeper, so I'm not going to take the easy route. If money allows I'm thinking a TDK frame with TJ suspension...or at the very least a coilover conversion on the stock frame.
 
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bigwalton

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FWIW, I don't think that the AALs I added hurt the offroad flex in any significant way. I have zero complaints with what I'm getting out of the rear end now. :shrug:
 

Randyzzz

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FWIW, I don't think that the AALs I added hurt the offroad flex in any significant way. I have zero complaints with what I'm getting out of the rear end now. :shrug:
Good to hear.

FWIW, the nicest set of leaf springs I've ever had were a set of custom built Alcans on a Commando. That may be an option... I also know Deaver makes some killer springs.
 

Cursivearmy

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Lincoln
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So much good info!

Thanks guys. My buddy has a 70gmc wth a twin supercharged 383 and custom deaver springs, and it's his work truck with a ladder rack and boxes, so lots of weight. He's had t this way for years and it's been just awesome, no sagging or anything. It is really stiff though:)

I think the RE will be my choice, each day my RC springs sag more:( you get what you pay for.
 
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