Another Scrambler Purchase/Road Trip - UPDATE- BODY ON FRAME AGAIN

[Belizeit]

You had better luck at your napa than me. Use to be the main warehouse in the whole area. Now just a store with not having what I needed. PVC 2 days away in Memphis. Battery cables 1 day away in Jackson Mississippi. Also had to get some other items for my Toyotas so I left.

 

[spankrjs]

You had better luck at your napa than me. Use to be the main warehouse in the whole area. Now just a store with not having what I needed. PVC 2 days away in Memphis. Battery cables 1 day away in Jackson Mississippi. Also had to get some other items for my Toyotas so I left.

That sucks. Hit Advance Auto tonight for grease, and amazingly, Spicer U-Joints!!!

Will hit NAPA tomorrow for all the bearings and hub seals. The rear spindle seals are hard to get, but I have some in my garage. Will reorder a pair for the spares pile.

Spindles could be this issue

 

[John N]

Wow! One of these days I should do some maintenance on mine.

 

[spankrjs]

Wow! One of these days I should do some maintenance on mine.

Kind of like going to the doctor, what you don't know can't hurt you

 

[spankrjs]

Started cleaning up all four "corners".

Before:



After:



Front corners much easier, mainly cleaned off old thread lock off the knuckle/spindle studs:



I also cleaned all the crud out the front axle tubes, lots of Michigan sand LOL. Driver side looked a little damp, I'll plan on changing the front axle oil seals out in 50k miles when I install new front brakes and repack the wheel bearings!!!



Spent an hour cleaning up the huge mess of tools and trash I left every where on Sunday. I can't stand working in chaos. Much better:



All cleaned up and organized. A few more hours of cleaning parts and then reassembly can start. I figure probably about 12 hours, working at night after work a few hours each day, maybe have it back on all fours by Friday night, IF the spindles show up

 

[wm69]

I'll be watching this closely. I need to do new ujoints and bearings in the front end of my green CJ7. Pulled a tractor back to the house the other day (injector pump) and noticed the left front axle making some noise when turning in 4 low out on the farm. Looks like the needles in my ujoint on that axle are about gone. Lots of play in the ujoint.

Lots of pics please (not that you don't always post lots of pics) and thank you!

 

[spankrjs]

I'll be watching this closely. I need to do new ujoints and bearings in the front end of my green CJ7. Pulled a tractor back to the house the other day (injector pump) and noticed the left front axle making some noise when turning in 4 low out on the farm. Looks like the needles in my ujoint on that axle are about gone. Lots of play in the ujoint.

Lots of pics please (not that you don't always post lots of pics) and thank you!

I'll try to post some pictures, but I'm in a time crunch on this one!!! Also, the wheel hubs and lock in hubs I run on this one are different then regular CJ stuff.

I'll link one of my threads where I redo all this stuff on a stock CJ. I think the Vintage Red thread has a pretty good write up

 

[spankrjs]

Cleaning parts, takes forever, needs to be done, good time to inspect everything, too.

Before (one rear corner):



After wiping down/brake parts cleaner/etc:



Not reused parts, same corner:



Cleaned both rear corners, both front corners, everything except the front lock in hubs:





The front rotors and pads will wait till next hub service, hopefully 50k miles. Rotors and pads are good except one rotor has a thin "valley" machined into one side where a piece of pea gravel must have got caught under the pad.

The junk pile:



You will notice four half assed cleaned bearings in the above junk picture. One set is from the front, one set from the rear. I wanted to confirm that both front and rear hubs use the same bearings, and they do. The rear had Timken, the front had SKF, but the numbers match.

I think I found the problem with the driver side front, I'll post a picture later. Besides minor rust in places, all hubs still had plenty of clean uncontaminated grease. No dirt, water, other contaminates inside. The rear probably would have been good to go for much longer, but both fronts had issues.

If I would have pulled all four hubs off sooner, probably could have just cleaned/repacked the bearings and it would have only cost me four hub seals. That is the good and bad thing about this set up - it is serviceable (as opposed to a unit bearing) but you have to service them. Totally opposite of our modern throw away society. A little bit of work, but it can save money in the long term.

That's it for now

 

[spankrjs]

I have not cleaned/closely examined the lock in hubs yet, but the only issue I found so far on the driver side front:

This is the back side of the outer spindle nut. It contacts the center washer. Note the little "circles" left on the face where it was contacting the center "tit and hole" washer:



It is in good shape, square cuts perfect.

This is the outside of the same nut, the side that faces the lock in hub:



Notice how the square holes are damaged, and the chunk missing!!!! Also note the little "dents" in the face. I have not beat on this nut, and I don't remember the spindle nut socket slipping out the prongs, but something happened. IIRC, this was an almost new/used set of internal hubs/hub locks/spindle nuts I installed on this Jeep 12 years ago.

The problem: This is all part of the long discontinued Warn 37132 hub conversion. Randy's R&P might still sell complete kits, but they are like $800.00. The lock in hubs are a Warn 36940, also no longer available. You can "Google 36940", many places show "in stock", no longer available.

Solution: Most of these 37132 parts are similar to '70-'80's Ford hubs. BUT, two issues:

1) The Warn 20990 hubs "I think" are identical for the 36940 EXCEPT for the center splines. Ford is 19, Jeep is 27. That being said, you can easily swap out the "drive gears" between hubs. I do NOT think I need new hubs, and I have used spares, just researching.

2) The "spindle nut stack height" is the issue. Ford spindles, threaded portion where these nuts go, are longer then Jeep spindles threaded portion. The 37132 conversion kit came with two thinner/machined down spindle nuts to fit the Jeep short spindle. Of course, this is the nut that is damaged. BUT, pretty sure I have a spare thin nut. In the future/spare time, I need to machine down some of the extra "thick nuts" to "thin nut" spec's. When I say "me", I mean a machinist LOL!!!!!

The missing chunk of metal would explain the "grittiness" of this driver side hub bearings. A chunk of metal fell off the nut, eventually made its way to the outer bearing, and promptly got chewed up. That's my best "guestimate".

The inner nut is only torqued to adjust bearing play, so not much force in the four "square cuts" where the spindle nut socket's prongs fit. The outer nut, the one that is damaged, different story. The instructions tell you to torque this "jam nut" to 125-150 foot pounds. A lot of force!!!!!!

Hopefully I have a spare "thin nut". If not, I will file the rough edges down on this one, make sure no other parts are going to fall off, flip it over so the good side faces out, reuse it.

I ordered a set of Warn 20990 hubs to see if I can swap them on. My current hubs have some miles on them, pretty sure all the o-rings are dried out. I have some used hubs, and I did order some "hopefully they fit o-rings" to repair these, but new hubs will bring piece of mind. I still have not "cleaned/inspected" the front hubs, there could be some damage to the driver side hub. They both still function, but I have made them make "loud pops" sometimes LOL!!!!!! Time is running short, so swapping on new hubs will save some time vs. cleaning/inspecting/rebuilding my current hubs, or used hubs.

That's it for now

 

[Belizeit]

What is your leaving date ?

 

[spankrjs]

What is your leaving date ?

Either next Wednesday afternoon, or first thing Thursday morning at the butt crack of dawn

 

[spankrjs]

Three front axle u-joints (I always get one for a spare, either future use of if I "F Up" an install). One spindle, no bueno, was supposed to get two!!!!!!



On the spindle front:

1) eBay seller "looking into it", WTF!!!!!!!!!
2) one ordered next day air from Summit, will be here tomorrow
3) Ordered another off Amazon, will be here Monday
4) Worst case, I can probably reuse one of the old ones off this Jeep, or dig in the old parts box!!!!!!!!

Damn spindle will not beat me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lots of hub bearings and seals, spindle bearings and seals, new self locking nut for the spindles:



Packing all eight wheel bearings, zip lock bags keep them clean until I am ready to install them:



Pressed in eight races, installed all eight hub bearings:



Successfully installed three out of four hub seals, now you can see why I order extra parts LOL!!!!!





In all seriousness, I am using the seals that Warn's instructions call for. But, the OD of seal to ID of hubs is super tight. It would take about 8 minutes to install one hub seal!!!!! Try to get it started by gently tapping around perimeter, start to press, it would cock, reposition press tool off set on seal, press straight, reposition press too, press it home. PIA!!!!!!!



Installed new spindle seals in the rear spindles, the correct direction:



Dug in the spares box, found a good condition used spindle nut to replace the slightly damaged nut (damaged one went into the trail spare box):



Removed both front axle u-joint's retaining clips, will install new u-joints tonight, wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



So, game plan:

install front axle u-joints
install new bearing/seals/washers on new spindle
install one front axle and the new spindle assembly
install both rear axle spindles (waiting on o-rings) and brake caliper brackets
install both rear axle hubs, axles, brake parts
install one front hub

IF everything goes correctly, on Friday maybe only have to:

assemble one new front spindle
install the last front axle, spindle, hub assembly
adjust all four wheel bearings
install rear drive flanges/front lock in hubs
install front brakes
install tires
Test drive Saturday morning!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's it for now..................................

 

[spankrjs]

Making progress...........

Pressed in the last hub seal successfully:



My favorite, removing front axle u-joints:



Three of the Eight caps were still good LOL:



Removing the old u-joint sucked, combination of press/hammer did the deed. I have a mental block about installing axle u-joints, but I rarely have issues. The new ones install with no issues. Just make sure to thoroughly clean the shafts before you start!!!!!

I install the cross in the long shaft first, then one cup by hand, slide cross into cup, lightly tap it all the way in. Pull cross 1/2 way out of first cup and slide it onto second cup, GENTLTY tap it in. Once second cap starts about 1/2 way your good, no way needles can fall out. I tapped both crosses in, installed clips;



Installing the stub shaft to inner axle, repeat the above process:



Only took about 15 minutes to install both new u-joints, thanked God afterward, another subassembly finished:



The spindle bearing came pre-installed in the spindle, I cleaned out whatever grease was in it:



My second spindle should show up today I purchased Yukon spindles, they seem nice, better then the Crown spindles I am replacing. I did not like their seals, so will use the seals that came with the NAPA bearing kits:

 

[spankrjs]

The outer spindle seal metal rings were removed from the stub shafts to ease u-joint install/removal. Installed new metal rings, they are included with the above picture spindle bearing kits:



To install them:



Heated the ring up for about two minutes with the torch, slid it on the stub shaft, tapped it home with a long brass drift/hammer. This is the easiest method I have used to install these pieces.

I am running long discontinued Warn chromo shafts, use Dana 44 u-joints. The OEM inner axle dust shields do not fit tight on the Warn inner axles. On initial install, I wrapped tape around the shafts and installed the shields. Short side stayed, driver side long axle shield came loose and aggravated me to no end with the sounds it made at high speeds with the hubs locked in!!!!!!!

The parts I am talking about;



In all actuality I do not need them. The inner Warn shafts shape mimics the shields, so the shields would only gain about 2mm more protection:





I am not going to install them. Judging by the amount of crap inside both axle tubes, they only keep big stuff out anyway. I'll revisit this in 50k miles when I have more time................................

 

[spankrjs]

I purchased new rear axle spindle o-rings from McMaster-Carr, fit great:





The Warn spindles ride inside the axle tubes. These O-rings keep gear oil from leaking out from between the spindle/axle tube. The tubes are usually a little rough at the ends, and vary in condition. My driver side rear fits tight with a new o-ring, passenger side not as much. The instructions mention, and I recommend, a thin layer of RTV inside the end of the axle tube. That is what I have done in the past and it worked, so repeated the same process, The end of the axle tube where the o-ring seals:



A little black Permatex does wonders.

Installed both rear spindles and caliper mounting brackets:



This particular Warn full float kit did NOT use the more common "tits and holes" spindle nut pieces. It uses two tabbed thrust washers and two identical nuts.



I did not have any issue with this set up before, so I reused it.

1) Thrust washer
2) Inner nut, torque to 50, back off 180 degrees, retorque inner nut 3-5 foot pounds (or by hand feel to set bearing play)
3) Thrust washer
4) Outer nut, torque to 120 foot pounds (previously pictured jack under spindle nut, 3/4 drive ratchet, short pipe to avoid slips)

Installed both rear hubs, adjusted bearings, called it a night:



So, remaining work:

1) Install second front spindle bearing, grease both front spindle bearings
2) Install front axle shafts/spindles
3) Install front rotor hubs, adjust bearing play
4) Reinstall all four calipers/brake pads
5) Install rear axle shafts
6) Install rear drive flanges
7) Install new/modified front lock in hubs
8) Install tires, road test (will remove center caps to ease checking hub temperature)

That's it for now

 

[Belizeit]

Front u-joints on axels been changed out before on that Scrambler ?

 

[spankrjs]

Front u-joints on axels been changed out before on that Scrambler ?

Nope. I installed new u- joints in the then new axle shafts 12 years/60k miles ago. I got my use out of them

 

[spankrjs]

So, Friday night:

Greased spindle bearings, installed seal:



Installed big rubber seal and plastic thrust washer:



Front axles shafts and spindles installed:



Slid front rotor hubs on:



Front spindle nuts are the "tit and holes" style:



Nut with tit installed first, torqued to 50 foot pounds and then back off 90 degrees:



Tabbed washer goes on next, align a hole with the tit. You may have to slightly loosen/tighten to line up the parts:



And then install the other nut, torqued to 120 foot pounds:



Installed calipers and pads:

 

[spankrjs]

Also Friday night, installed rear calipers and pads:



And the rear drive slugs:



Also Friday night, inspecting/modifying the hubs I bought that the Warn customer service lady said would not work with my front hub conversion. She was wrong.



Bought at NAPA:



These are still in production, easily found, fit lots of stuff:



Nice and new. The dials are stiff, unlike my old hubs, should break in:



The Warn front hub conversion I am running, discontinued by Warn, I think Randy's Ring and Pinion might still sell the conversion kit?



The lock in hubs that it came with, no longer made or supported by Warn:

 

[spankrjs]

More Friday night, late, lets mix and match hub parts!!!

Old on the left, new on the right, identical dial assemblies:



Old on left, new on right, identical EXCEPT for center part that splines on stub shaft. IIRC, Jeep CJ Dana 30 stub is 27 spline, these hubs are 19 spline?



Only a little wavy retaining clip on each end of the center drive gear, so took the old and new hubs apart:





The only part that is different, this center gear. Dimensionally identical, only the center splines for the stub shafts are different:



Cleaned my old center gears, installed them in the new lock in hubs, fit and function fine in my wheel hubs:



Installed the dials, finished. Function perfectly.



Went to bed after midnight........