Another Scrambler Purchase/Road Trip - UPDATE- BODY ON FRAME AGAIN

[wm69]

I had the same battery in my Scrambler. Made it about 2 weeks shy of 3 years and, luckily, was warrantied. Not so lucky with my 98 Grand Cherokee. That one is failing and, with a 7/21 date tag, will be costly to replace. Those AGM batteries have almost doubled in price since '21. At least I get the AAA discount.

(Old man gets up on soapbox)

Back in the early 2000's at one time I was running 7 Optima Red Tops. That was before they sold out to Johnson Controls and moved production to Mexico. The last two I bought in 2009, and both died in under a year. They were replaced under warranty, but I had to drive an hour each way to get replacements. They were $109 each at the time.

I'm actually still running two of those Optimas. They sit on tractors with battery tenders hooked up to them, but they still crank the tractors for now.

So then I moved to Deka batteries, which a local place sold. Then that place sold out so no more Dekas available locally.

I really, really wish you could get dry batteries now. I buy ATV batteries (either Yuasa or Tusk) and they come dry, with the battery electrolyte in a plastic container. You add the electrolyte, pop the caps on, and charge, and it's ready to use. The benefit, of course, being that I can leave a battery in a box on the shelf for 10 years, and when I need one, I can dump the juice in, charge it up, and I have a new battery. Buying car/truck batteries now they are aging before you buy them off the shelf, and they certainly don't last as long as they used to even while the price has skyrocketed.

Same thing for tires. I put new Michelins on the newer pickup, and took the old tires off the newer pickup, and put them on the older pickup. The new Michelins fell apart from age, hardly any tread wear on them. The old tires that the Michelins replaced are still in use on the old truck. Prices go up, service life goes down. It's almost like it's by design........

 

[helimd]

I'm with you on every point. I was in the motorcycle business for a long time and we would get batteries in by the pallet load. One pallet with the batteries, and one with the electrolyte. Best part about those batteries........if a high mileage piece started to show signs of not taking a full charge, you could dump out the old acid, fill it with fresh stuff, and get quite a bit more life out of it. I miss those days. Things were certainly made better. Now they call it "programmed obsolescence". Sad

 

[spankrjs]

Took a spare rear wheel hub and one of the flange caps to NAPA yesterday to see what we could find. The original o-rings were a bit hard and did have some minor damage so bought some replacements that were the same size. The o-rings with the same OD/ID but with bigger cross section would not work.





The only other issue I found was on the passenger side, the metal ring that the cap screws to. I must have got angry and overtightened these screws a few times!







I pressed it back flat with my press. I think I have had this issue before. I might even have a spare.

Anyway put it all back together hopefully good to go. The leak wasn't bad, but it bugged me. As long as it is greatly reduced I will be happy.

I am running the inner axle seals, inside the Warn spindles, which are supposed to keep the gear oil out of the wheel hubs. Well, that don't exactly happen. The Warn instructions mention something about ensuring that the AMC 20 housing is straight, I'm sure mine is tweaked some, BUT the drive slugs always slide into the wheel hub splines/axle splines with no drama so my housing isn't bent that bad. These kits were popular with the early bronco crowd, too, back in the day. They had a lot of lock in hubs leak issues, too, and I'm pretty sure all their Ford 9" rear axle housings weren't bent. I can't remember for sure, but I'm wondering if the axle shaft maybe isn't polished where the seal rides, maybe a slightly different seal would work better, if such a thing exists?

I had this issue with my tan Scrambler when it ran the lock in hubs on the rear. I was running Micky Thompson Challenger wheels, no center caps, major wheel spray art. I swapped drive flanges on the back, never had another issue. Besides the flange cap o-rings, another potential leak spot is at the cap screws. There is no seal here, no copper washer would fit with these caps. If it keeps leaking I could look into a different brand drive flange, with a cap with sealing washers under the retaining screws.

Not poo-pooing the RCV parts, they were designed for grease sealing, not oil sealing.

That's it for now.

 

[spankrjs]

Did some maintenance/inspection work on this one yesterday, getting ready for another Hot Springs trip.



Found one tore tie rod end boot, swapped on a new one:



All the fluid levels good, brakes and wheel bearings good, everything seems good to go.

Still fighting the leaking rear drive flange covers:



Cleaned up the wheels with a little Canadian help!!



So, a little bit of fluid seeps out between the cap/wheel hub/o-rings:



If you run your finger around this joint, always damp:



Decided to try to redneck fix it for now and applied some hardening sealant all around the joint.



Kind of got carried away LOL:



Let this stuff dry overnight before reinstalling the the tire/wheels. The OEM center caps fit close around the wheel hub/drive flange caps so wanted to make sure it set up before potentially scraping it off with the center cap.

Time will tell if this little fix will work, I'll drive it on the interstate tomorrow and find out.

Me and the Scrambler should be ready for Hot Springs, unfortunately looks like a storm in the Gulf might derail my plans.

That's it for now.

 

[2tall]

Hopefully this storm turns into nothing or just a little bit of rain for us. I know I could use a little at my place but definitely not ready to deal with storm clean up in November.

 

[spankrjs]

Hopefully this storm turns into nothing or just a little bit of rain for us. I know I could use a little at my place but definitely not ready to deal with storm clean up in November.

Yeah, it hasn't rained at our place for over a month, pretty dry. I just hate picking up all the tree limbs, BUT if that is the only thing I have to do after a storm I don't complain!!

 

[spankrjs]

Packed up, loaded up, headed up to Hot Springs tomorrow morning. Will keep an eye on the Gulf, should be good, but will come home early if necessary.

 

[Belizeit]

I can send you a report later in the week if the surf is up !

 

[spankrjs]

Left home around 7:30am, made it to Hot Springs around 4, good drive no issues

 

[spankrjs]

Ate breakfast in town, went wheeling, ate lunch in town, went wheeling some more, good day

 

[wm69]

Ate breakfast in town, went wheeling, ate lunch in town, went wheeling some more, good day

We got 3 inches of rain over along the river in Eastern Arkansas. If HS got anything like that outta be some fun wheeling.

 

[spankrjs]

We got 3 inches of rain over along the river in Eastern Arkansas. If HS got anything like that outta be some fun wheeling.

Not that much LOL!! Wheeled till about noon today, then the rain came and hasn't left yet. Mainly drizzle to light rain, probably more of the same tomorrow unfortunately.

 

[spankrjs]

Rained this morning, went to town, came back in the afternoon, rode with Gary Nix in a big boy Jeep, good times

 

[spankrjs]

Me and the Scrambler made it back home with no issues, had a blast, hope to see everyone again soon

 

[spankrjs]

Finished up all the post trip maintenance/inspection:

changed engine oil and filter
rotated (and cleaned) wheels/tires
greased steering/suspension/driveshafts/clutch linkage
checked all fluid levels, good to go (axles/transmission/Dana 300/coolant/PS and brake fluid

Only things noted:

1) grease fitting on PS drag link rod end PIA to grease, pulled it, seems OK
2) rear drive flange covers still seeping, will have to do better sealant job before I condemn and replace them
3) rear driveshaft missing a balance weight (not from impact, just flung off, bare shiny spot on shaft and remnants of tack welds), no vibration noted
4) minor clutch drag, pedal had too much play, adjusted it, better, linkage has some excess play, will remove and replace parts as necessary (z-bar, bushings, pivot ends)

On #4, very minor and random. Still shifts fine, not grinding gears, can shift from 1st to reverse with no pause, BUT I will get a very slight "feel" through the shifter handle, mainly going into third, sometimes first, very slight "noise", similar to the pilot bushing issues I was experiencing with my Green Scrambler awhile back.

I noted some play at the clutch cross bar, and it's two pivot post/balls. Will pull it all off and inspect/replace parts as needed. This stuff has been on this Jeep for close to 90k miles, lots of off roading, some wear is to be expected. BUT, I have a feeling I will be pulling the transmission back out to look at the pilot bushing. Hope not, but if it needs to happen it needs to happen. Had to look back at my notes, it has been over 3 years/36,000 miles (July 2021) since I last pulled this transmission out of this Scrambler, that's a record for this one

That's it for now

 

[spankrjs]

Finally got off my butt and removed/inspected the clutch linkage on this one, right before the Super Bowl. I had noticed just a bit of play, so tore it down:



I had previously purchased (and painted) two new pivot ends, plastic bushings, rubber boots, and retaining clips. This is just Crown parts, replacing Crown parts.

On the "long" pivot, some wear evident on the ball, plastic bushing was still OK. Also of note, I had to add another hole in this new bracket to match the old bracket. I have a 1" body lift, so dropping this bracket down 1" keeps the Z-bar level.





On the short pivot, minor wear on the ball/shaft, cracked plastic bushing:



Replaced both pivots, both bushings, and both boots/clips. Reinstalled it all, good to go. The play I had was minimal, but this repair work got the pedal back to where it should be. So, the original Crown parts lasted over 91k miles, and still functioned. These 91k miles also involved lots of four wheeling. So, for me, the mechanical linkage has not been a problem. When I rebuilt the entire Jeep I did install spherical rod ends on heavy duty linkage rods, have not had a problem with those parts. I spray lube on the spherical rod ends if they start to squeak, which is rare.

The simplicity/low cost/and redneck repairability of these components are a plus to me. For me, the stock clutch is not unbearably stiff or hard to work. I did like the original/OEM hydraulic clutch on that 1985 2.5L CJ-7 I worked on a few years ago. That pedal was soft, but I wonder if that was the hydraulic clutch, or the smaller clutch size that contributed to the soft pedal. Regardless, for me, not worth the hassle of installing a hydraulic clutch, especially with the crap quality of most parts today.

I still have a slight/faint/sporadic noise coming from the clutch/transmission. It is either pilot bushing or release bearing related, my money is on the pilot bushing drying out. Transmission still shifts fine, noise is every once in awhile, so I have not felt like pulling the transmission back out just yet to investigate further......

That's it for now

 

[Trevor Davidson]

Yes I agree ,My hyd clutch was so nice and light paired to 151 iron duke .But was a lot stiffer pedal when I swapped 258 in .
I am planning to go to mechanical linkage .

 

[spankrjs]

Brief history lesson, more for my own records keeping.


When I originally rebuilt the entire Jeep, I reinstalled the T176 transmission. I used a Centerforce clutch kit, Crown Pilot Bushing Part# PB3236726. I soaked this pilot bushing in oil for 3 days before installing it. Noted slightly tight fit of PB to transmission input shaft but never had any issues with this transmission at all.


June 2010, started the rebuild of the entire Scrambler

April 2011, first drive after the rebuild

February of 2012, installed the first T5 (wanted overdrive after going from 35” tires to 33” tires, probably only around 2,000 miles on build/T176 MAX)



Not going to get into all the gory details of my T5 experience with this Jeep, but some high points:



Three T5’s broke. The original pilot bushing worked with the original T176, the first T5 install, 2nd T5 took out pilot bushing when it blew up. Installed a new pilot bushing when I installed 3rd T5, it survived even after this T5 blew up. I really think all my T5 issues came down to using a case that was worn, the counter shaft bearings were a barely tight fit. The case also was cracked on last T5, maybe a hairline crack I never noticed when the 2nd T5 broke. Who knows.



October 2013, 17k miles on Jeep, I removed the 3rd broken T5 and reinstalled the T176. Again, no issues with this transmission except the lack of overdrive is evident with 33” tires and 4.10 gears.



February – March 2014 I removed the T176 and installed a Novak sourced 4:1 first gear AX15. A few notes:



Checked bell housing bore alignment to AX15, good to go

Used original Centerforce clutch

Installed Novak pilot bushing (this transmission input shaft different OD then T176/T5)

Been running Valvoline MTF in this AX15 since Day 1



December 2014, 25k miles, no issues with transmission or clutch



May 2016, pulled AX15 out due to “ticking” sound. The Novak supplied pilot bushing was wasted, dried out. It stuck to a magnet, not a “real” oilite bushing. Installed NAPA pilot BEARING part#FC69907 (this is a stock 4.0 to AX15 pilot bearing). Input shaft OD is .75, pilot bearing ID is .763. Installed NAPA/LUK replacement clutch, SKF HD throw out bearing. This throw out bearing made slight “whirring” noise.

June 2016, 28k miles, no issues.



December 2016, removed original engine (258) due to a cracked piston skirt. (Post #1410, pg. 71, picture of pilot bearing) I used a 4.2 flywheel/clutch with the 4.0 engine, installed a new NAPA pilot bearing FC69907. Transmission mated up to 4,0 with no issues.



May 2019, 30k miles

April 2019, 32k miles

May 2019, 36k miles (new tires installed, current BFG tires)

August 2019, 39k miles

January 2020, 40k miles

July 2020, 42k miles

May 2021, 48k miles

June 2021, 51k miles



July 2021, pulled out the AX15 for the first time since I installed the 4.0 engine. Transmission input shaft and front bearing seem fine, pilot bearing is destroyed, completely dried out. Rust is present in the remnants of the little needle bearings, no lubricant exists. Installed new clutch, flywheel, throw out bearing, clutch fork AND a new pilot BUSHING. This bushing fits inside the stock 4.0 “doughnut” in place of the roller bearing. Only thing to note is that is has a thin sidewall due to “doughnut” ID and input shaft ID. About half the sectional thickness of the OEM 258/T176/T5 pilot bushing. I did not lubricate this bushing, it is a real oilite bushing and oil was evident, coming out the pores. Drained and refilled the AX15 for the first time since installing it, Valvoline MTL.



August 2021, 54k miles. Minor pilot bushing noise on the way up to Michigan, double clutching eliminated this minor noise. Only happened a few times after several hours of interstate driving, maybe thermal expansion caused a slight rub that self clearanced, not sure, noise disappeared and transmission/clutch worked fine.



November 2021, 55k miles

June 2022, 60k miles



SIDE NOTE – original build I did NOT install inner axle oil seals on the rear axle. Look at July 2022, post #1895, pg95, I did NOT install rear axle inner oil seals, again. Probably the source of my rear hub/drive flange leaks.



August 2022, 65k miles

February 2023, 66k miles

June 2023, 69k miles

June 2023, 71k miles

August 2023, 74k miles

January 2024, 77k miles

March 2024, 77.5k miles

May 2024, 80k miles

July 2024, 83k miles

August 2024, 86k miles,

November 2024, 89.5k miles

March 12, 2025, 92,034 miles



All mileage and dates listed above were taken from photo’s of the odometer and/or notes taken. Mileage jumps high in short durations due to long trips (i.e. MS to MI, MS to Utah, MS to CO, etc.)



So, my home made oilite pilot bushing lasted from:



July 2021 51k miles

March 2025 92k miles
41k miles


BUT, a pilot bushing should easily last the life time of a clutch lets just say 100k miles.



It will be interesting to see what I find, but I have a feeling that it dried out due to its thin sectional width.





Green Scrambler notes:


January 2017, installed rebuilt 258 and T5, new clutch. Used pilot bushing PB79 soaked in motor oil. Used LUK flywheel and clutch kit, and LUK throw out bearing.



January 2023, pulled T5 due to similar sounds that my AX15 is making now. The PB79 that I installed was dried out and crumbling. It also stuck to magnet. Installed a real oilite PB79 with no additional lubricant. Was going to remove it and lube it bust noted oil wicking from pores after it was installed in the back of crank shaft. Went to Michael’s craft store, bought some felt, used it as an “oil wick” behind the pilot bushing, soaked in motor oil. Installed a SKF N1444 throw out bearing because the original LUK TB was leaking grease. (used SKF N1444SA in red Scrambler).



Green Scrambler shifting working fine. Be careful on those pilot bushings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FLCJ8]

It will be interesting to see what I find, but I have a feeling that it dried out due to its thin sectional width.

I guess it goes without saying but let us know what you discover.
This post is going to save me a bunch of searching when I swap mine.

 

[spankrjs]

Got the AX15/Dana 300/T176 bell housing combination safely on the ground after work today.



Even with the Jeep on jackstands the bell housing will not clear the frame. No big deal, transmission seems fine.

My biggest gripe with this powertrain is having to remove the bell housing with the transmission. The bellhousing bolts to the transmission adapter from inside the bell housing, so no way to leave the bell housing attached to the engine block and just remove the transmission/transfer case. It is a huge PIA getting to all the bell housing to engine block bolts with the transmission/transfer case in the way. I can remove a T5 (plenty of practice) in two hours, start to finish. This AX15, due to the bellhousing issue, closer to 4 hours just due to the bolts. But, the AX15 is a better transmission, so small gripe.

So, what did I find?

Input shaft tip looks/feels fine.



After a quick wipe down with a damp rag.



I will check it with a caliper/new bushing but it seems fine. This is the biggest advantage of a pilot bushing versus a bearing: bearing dries out and goes bad it will tear up the input shaft.

Transmission front bearing feels fine, too.

Pilot bushing is a different story, completely dried out.



Note in the picture above, the bushing is in the middle of the steel "doughnut" adapter. On a stock TJ 4.0 there is a needle bearing installed here. I learned my lesson with two of these bearings going bad, switched to a bushing, which lasted 41k miles.

Note how dry the bushing is, all the dust!! This was a real oilite bushing.



After wiping the dust away, you can easily see the oilite bushing pressed into the center of the steel adapter "doughnut".



Quick picture of a new leftover/spare oilite bushing which is the same size as the one that is installed. Note how thin the cross section is.



It will be interesting to compare the ID of the installed bushing compared to a new bushing of the same size. Maybe some wear? But, it really doesn't seem worn down/thinner, just dried out.

The SKF heavy duty throw out bearing has some slight roughness/play to it, so it will be replaced, too.



Also note the rusty appearance of the input shaft clutch disc splines. These splines were lubed with the Luk provided spline grease. Not sure yet if the lube wore out or it just caught a bunch of pilot bushing debris??

My only symptom of any issue was a slight noise with the clutch down AND shifting the transmission. I did not have gear clash, but you could tell that something was not 100% correct. Almost like the input shaft was sticking to the crank shaft/engine, so it was spinning too fast when trying to shift. This would only happen sometimes, and mainly on a downshift to say 1st or 2nd gear while still rolling too fast for that particular gear. Transmission would always shift, it would just feel a bit "off". Not grinding, but notchy No issues sitting still, transmission in neutral, and the clutch pushed in. But, move to a gear from neutral while vehicle was rolling, you would sometimes get the notchy feeling.

I'll pull out the pilot bushing/doughnut thing tomorrow night and report back.