OT: Retro Wrangler/Willys Pickup (long)
- Thread starter jscherb
- Start date
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Thanks for the photoshop work... it isn't that black looks bad - like twmattox says, it looks like the two tone-look on all Jeeps, but that's just not the look I'm going for. I really think for the retro look it should all be the same color.matnic said:
Business up front...party in the back!!!
Seriously, I understand your point and appreciate it. I guess I am just kind of partial to that 2-tone look. You are right, it would not look as "period" as you are pulling off with the rig. Thanks for the photoshop work, now at least I know for certain what it looks like.
As always, enjoying the build and thanks for keeping me involved..
Thoma
Seriously, I understand your point and appreciate it. I guess I am just kind of partial to that 2-tone look. You are right, it would not look as "period" as you are pulling off with the rig. Thanks for the photoshop work, now at least I know for certain what it looks like.
As always, enjoying the build and thanks for keeping me involved..
Thoma
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Wouldn't it be nice if we had clean, brand new World Cab sheet metal to work with? Well I feel like that's what I've got after stripping the roof panel. I used a product called Aircraft Remover, it is available at auto paint stores and it is an industrial strength paint remover for metal.
I had to remove 5 layers of paint to get to bare metal -
- maroon
- heavy layer of primer
- black
- factory original silver
- factory primer, a tan color
It took a few coats of the remover to do the job but as you can see I've now got pristine sheet metal to work with. Tomorrow I'll give it a good sanding so it has enough tooth for the filler to stick well and I'll begin the filler work. Won't need too much filler to smooth things out.
I had to remove 5 layers of paint to get to bare metal -
- maroon
- heavy layer of primer
- black
- factory original silver
- factory primer, a tan color
It took a few coats of the remover to do the job but as you can see I've now got pristine sheet metal to work with. Tomorrow I'll give it a good sanding so it has enough tooth for the filler to stick well and I'll begin the filler work. Won't need too much filler to smooth things out.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Well Thoma, as it turns out, I actually can show you what it looks like with a black hardtop... here's the truck wearing a prototype Gr8Tops extra-long top. It happens to be the same length as my tub, so Matt and I tried it out.twmattox said:
It is a really nice top, and I've enjoyed having it for the past two months. Couldn't talk about it until now, didn't want to spill the beans on Matt's prototype, but today Matt gave me permission today to post these photos.
It isn't quite the look I'm going for on the Retro Wrangler or I'd keep it, cuz it is a really nice top.
Jeff
- City
- Dexter
- State
- MI
Thoma, I know what your saying, I like the look of the black too just because it's what we're used to seeing on Wranglers. Matt's top looks great too.
I can't wait to see the real deal painted up and the "finished" Unlimitruck!
Love that pretty sheet metal!
I can't wait to see the real deal painted up and the "finished" Unlimitruck!
Love that pretty sheet metal!
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
twmattox said:
Don't worry, I didn't take it wrong. Matt's top is really nice but like you said the top I'm building, in red, will look much more like an older truck than Matt's top.
And if you want to say so it's ok for you to say you like Matt's top better than mine too, all comments are welcome in this thread.
Last edited:
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
bigwalton said:I can't wait to see the real deal painted up and the "finished" Unlimitruck!
Oh puhleez, don't call it the Unlimitruck.
I told the body shop today that I'd be getting the top to them sometime next week for paint. Today I worked on filling and smoothing, not a lot of fun really, but it is coming along nicely. No photos today, nothing worth showing at this point.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
I'm on the middle of filling and smoothing the roof panel today, almost done, and that made me think I should write about a few things I've learned about body work on this project.
Disclaimer: I am certainly not a professional body tech. What follows are some thoughts on tools and techniques that have worked for me. Almost certainly there are better ways to do things
Materials.
I don't use the "bondo" products you can find in most chain auto stores. I read somewhere that the filler in those products is talc, which can absorb water and lead to rust. Also, they are a "one size fits all" kind of product for general body work, not always the best product for the specific need.
1 - Base coat - I use "All Metal", which has aluminum powder as its filler material. It is extremely tough (and a bit hard to sand). I usually do one coat of this, maybe a second in extreme areas.
2 - Top coat - I use "Icing", this is a somewhat self-leveling and easy sanding product with a very fine grain.
If I was doing the entire finishing job myself, I would then follow with high-build primer and block sanding with blocking powder, but what I do is get the panels to 95% or better using the above two products and I let the professionals at the body shop do the final 5%. I'm just not good enough to go all the way to paint-ready for the level of quality I'm shooting for on the Retro Wrangler build. Jamie at the body shop might spend another hour on the panel taking it the last 5% of the way, to me that's $45 well spent because he's so much better than I am at this.
Tools.
3 - 3x21 belt sander with 80-grit belt. Yes, I actually use this for body work, but only for taking town the first rough coat of All Metal. I use a very light touch and keep it moving so it doesn't cut too deep. It is very much a "blunt instrument", so it will end up making low spots I have to fill on the next coat, but it makes fast work of the first rough cut.
4 - Pneumatic long board - mine is from Harbor Freight, cost me $29 on sale. Sandpaper comes in rolls 2 3/4" wide. It doesn't take material off very fast, I actually don't use this as much as the next tool. I use this and the next tool to make sure I get flat surfaces (and smooth curves). If you had a choice between this tool and the next one, get the next one for sure.
5 - Long board - This one is marked with a star because it is one of the most important tools in my arsenal. This one takes PSA (pressure-sensitive adhesive) sandpaper in 2 3/4" x 16" size. I made this tool, but you can buy them inexpensively in any auto paint shop. It's a great tool because you can apply the right amount of pressure and stroke to get the job done and it won't creat dips in your sanding - you must use this tool if you're trying for a perfectly flat surface (which we have many of on our Jeeps!) If you did all your sanding with a small sanding block like #6, you could easily get waves and dips in the surface - the long board prevents that. Using the long board is how I got the flat parts of my fenders as flat as glass. Can't do body work without this tool, especially on a Jeep where there are so many flat surfaces. I typically use 80 grit in this one. Don't do body work without one!
6 - Rubber sanding block. I use this for detail work and sharp corners. Typically with 100-grit sandpaper.
7 - Random orbit sander. This is for finish sanding, with 150 grit. This is only to smooth the surface and remove scratches, not to remove any more material than that, otherwise you'll get waves and dips in the surface.
8 - Straightedges - I have marked these with a star also because they are so important, I check everything I do with these, even curves. If you can see light between the edge and the surface, you've got a low spot. These are used at the filler stage, later if you'd be doing final sanding you'd want to use a blocking powder to show the high and low spots. The lower left photo shows me checking the side of the roof with the long straightedge. Just above my thumb there's a 1/32" low spot, not sure if you can see it in the photo, but the photo shows how I use it. Also, I use it to check surfaces before I put any filler on - if there are any high spots in the base metal, I hammer them down with a body hammer before the filler goes on. Can't do much hammering once you put on filler, and if you've got a high spot in the metal once the filler is on you've got a problem. Also, you really want the metal to be close enough to correct so you at most use a 1/16" layer of filler, perhaps 1/8 in a small random dip somewhere, but if you're off by more than that you've got more metal work to do before going to the filler stage.
So the basic sequence is like this:
- Check surfaces with straightedges to make sure there are no high spots in the metal and everything is within 1/16" of correct.
- Rough sand the metal to give it enough tooth for the filler to bond well. I use around 50 grit and typically use sanding disks in my angle grider for this task.
- Base coat of All Metal filler; rough sand it with the belt sander and finer sanding with long board with 80 grit, checking with straightedge all the time.
- Repeated skim coats of Icing, mostly sanded with long board and a bit with sanding block for the detail; 80-grit. Usually I do 4-5 skim coats, very thin coats gives a lot of control about how much the surface gets built up.
- Final sanding with 150-grit in the random orbit.
One final tip - sandpaper loads up and clogs a lot when sanding body filler. I use a file cleaning card (a fine, stiff wire brush) to unclog the sandpaper. Really saves on sandpaper (lower right photo).
I hope this write-up helps. It works for me.
Disclaimer: I am certainly not a professional body tech. What follows are some thoughts on tools and techniques that have worked for me. Almost certainly there are better ways to do things
Materials.
I don't use the "bondo" products you can find in most chain auto stores. I read somewhere that the filler in those products is talc, which can absorb water and lead to rust. Also, they are a "one size fits all" kind of product for general body work, not always the best product for the specific need.
1 - Base coat - I use "All Metal", which has aluminum powder as its filler material. It is extremely tough (and a bit hard to sand). I usually do one coat of this, maybe a second in extreme areas.
2 - Top coat - I use "Icing", this is a somewhat self-leveling and easy sanding product with a very fine grain.
If I was doing the entire finishing job myself, I would then follow with high-build primer and block sanding with blocking powder, but what I do is get the panels to 95% or better using the above two products and I let the professionals at the body shop do the final 5%. I'm just not good enough to go all the way to paint-ready for the level of quality I'm shooting for on the Retro Wrangler build. Jamie at the body shop might spend another hour on the panel taking it the last 5% of the way, to me that's $45 well spent because he's so much better than I am at this.
Tools.
3 - 3x21 belt sander with 80-grit belt. Yes, I actually use this for body work, but only for taking town the first rough coat of All Metal. I use a very light touch and keep it moving so it doesn't cut too deep. It is very much a "blunt instrument", so it will end up making low spots I have to fill on the next coat, but it makes fast work of the first rough cut.
4 - Pneumatic long board - mine is from Harbor Freight, cost me $29 on sale. Sandpaper comes in rolls 2 3/4" wide. It doesn't take material off very fast, I actually don't use this as much as the next tool. I use this and the next tool to make sure I get flat surfaces (and smooth curves). If you had a choice between this tool and the next one, get the next one for sure.
5 - Long board - This one is marked with a star because it is one of the most important tools in my arsenal. This one takes PSA (pressure-sensitive adhesive) sandpaper in 2 3/4" x 16" size. I made this tool, but you can buy them inexpensively in any auto paint shop. It's a great tool because you can apply the right amount of pressure and stroke to get the job done and it won't creat dips in your sanding - you must use this tool if you're trying for a perfectly flat surface (which we have many of on our Jeeps!) If you did all your sanding with a small sanding block like #6, you could easily get waves and dips in the surface - the long board prevents that. Using the long board is how I got the flat parts of my fenders as flat as glass. Can't do body work without this tool, especially on a Jeep where there are so many flat surfaces. I typically use 80 grit in this one. Don't do body work without one!
6 - Rubber sanding block. I use this for detail work and sharp corners. Typically with 100-grit sandpaper.
7 - Random orbit sander. This is for finish sanding, with 150 grit. This is only to smooth the surface and remove scratches, not to remove any more material than that, otherwise you'll get waves and dips in the surface.
8 - Straightedges - I have marked these with a star also because they are so important, I check everything I do with these, even curves. If you can see light between the edge and the surface, you've got a low spot. These are used at the filler stage, later if you'd be doing final sanding you'd want to use a blocking powder to show the high and low spots. The lower left photo shows me checking the side of the roof with the long straightedge. Just above my thumb there's a 1/32" low spot, not sure if you can see it in the photo, but the photo shows how I use it. Also, I use it to check surfaces before I put any filler on - if there are any high spots in the base metal, I hammer them down with a body hammer before the filler goes on. Can't do much hammering once you put on filler, and if you've got a high spot in the metal once the filler is on you've got a problem. Also, you really want the metal to be close enough to correct so you at most use a 1/16" layer of filler, perhaps 1/8 in a small random dip somewhere, but if you're off by more than that you've got more metal work to do before going to the filler stage.
So the basic sequence is like this:
- Check surfaces with straightedges to make sure there are no high spots in the metal and everything is within 1/16" of correct.
- Rough sand the metal to give it enough tooth for the filler to bond well. I use around 50 grit and typically use sanding disks in my angle grider for this task.
- Base coat of All Metal filler; rough sand it with the belt sander and finer sanding with long board with 80 grit, checking with straightedge all the time.
- Repeated skim coats of Icing, mostly sanded with long board and a bit with sanding block for the detail; 80-grit. Usually I do 4-5 skim coats, very thin coats gives a lot of control about how much the surface gets built up.
- Final sanding with 150-grit in the random orbit.
One final tip - sandpaper loads up and clogs a lot when sanding body filler. I use a file cleaning card (a fine, stiff wire brush) to unclog the sandpaper. Really saves on sandpaper (lower right photo).
I hope this write-up helps. It works for me.
- City
- Redmond
- State
- OR
Nice, Jeff. I can see a book in the making. Body work is one area that I am a bit timid on- bad experience on my first Bronco (Tried to save money on a paint job by doing all the body work myself- had never done it before and EVERY thing I did showed through on the paint job
). That was 28 years ago...I'm going to try it again on my Jeepster- I will be putting your instruction to work.
I've never seen "All Metal" before- is it something you get from Eastwood, or have you found it locally?
). That was 28 years ago...I'm going to try it again on my Jeepster- I will be putting your instruction to work. I've never seen "All Metal" before- is it something you get from Eastwood, or have you found it locally?
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Randyzzz said:
I get all my supplies locally at Elmira Auto Paint, a local 3-store chain that serves the body shops in the area. Eastwood's price for All Metal is $30/quart, I think I pay $23 locally. Isn't it nice when you can support your local businesses and get the best price!
- City
- Lexington
- State
- SC
Longer top
Meant to post this yesterday and now its a little off topic, but anyways. Thanks for the compliments on the top. We are just in the process of releasing another version of the top that is about 2.5" longer than our existing top. It allows a little more in cab room and seat to recline a bit more. Jeff and I had talked and discussed about test fitting it while he was working on his metal one. It worked out great for both of us and glad he was able to use it while fabbing the metal one. I'm biased of course about the GR8TOPS and styling cues of them, but I must say I don't think the GR8TOPS hardtop will do all the work Jeff has put into this Jeep justice. I think the world cab hardtop he has fabbed up for this and when done in color matched is going to really make his project complete. I think the red color matched top on it will look much better than a contrast one for his project.
I'll sneak this picture in. For comparison, the top on the unlimited in this picture is the longer version of the top and the one on our display trailer is the shorter version. Granted the trailer is actually a TJ body and not an unlimited which leads the eyes to make it even shorter.
The longer top will also be used on a new product Throttle Down Kustoms will be coming out with soon. I'll keep you posted on that.
Now back to your normal programming.
Meant to post this yesterday and now its a little off topic, but anyways. Thanks for the compliments on the top. We are just in the process of releasing another version of the top that is about 2.5" longer than our existing top. It allows a little more in cab room and seat to recline a bit more. Jeff and I had talked and discussed about test fitting it while he was working on his metal one. It worked out great for both of us and glad he was able to use it while fabbing the metal one. I'm biased of course about the GR8TOPS and styling cues of them, but I must say I don't think the GR8TOPS hardtop will do all the work Jeff has put into this Jeep justice. I think the world cab hardtop he has fabbed up for this and when done in color matched is going to really make his project complete. I think the red color matched top on it will look much better than a contrast one for his project.
I'll sneak this picture in. For comparison, the top on the unlimited in this picture is the longer version of the top and the one on our display trailer is the shorter version. Granted the trailer is actually a TJ body and not an unlimited which leads the eyes to make it even shorter.
The longer top will also be used on a new product Throttle Down Kustoms will be coming out with soon. I'll keep you posted on that.
Now back to your normal programming.
jscherb
CJ-8 Member
- City
- Elmira
- State
- NY
Today I got the roof panel to maybe 90% of where it needs to be. I'll spend another hour or so on it on Monday when I'm feeling fresh on the project and get it to 95%, which is where the body shop can take over. The photos don't really do this justice, what with the multiple colors of filler and all... you really have to see it and run your hands over the smooth curves . So far I've got maybe 11 hours of work into the filler and smoothing of the roof since the first rough coat went on Wednesday. Like they say, there's a reason it's called body "work". Ugh.
About the multiple colors of filler - there's only a few small spots where the base coat of All Metal can be seen, it's silver just like the metal so probably you can't see it in these photos. Both the blue and the pink are Icing filler, I used different color hardeners doing different coats so I could more easily see and track my progress with low spots towards smoothness. On average I did maybe 4 coats of icing on each spot on the roof as I progressed from the rough coat of All Metal to the final pink coat of Icing. The last coat of Icing was taking care of low spots that were probably less than ten thousandths of an inch deep. Doesn't sound like much, but when the high gloss paint is on, ten thousandths means the difference between a reflection off the panel looking like a flat mirror vs. a wavy one. You want to smooth the flat areas until there's no light under the straightedge anywhere. I used the same techniques when I did the rear fenders, and the flat parts of those do reflect like flat mirrors.
Tomorrow I'll get the sides/back panel to 90% if I get time to work on it, and then Monday get them both to 95% and then they should be ready to go off to the body shop for the last 5% and paint.
. So far I've got maybe 11 hours of work into the filler and smoothing of the roof since the first rough coat went on Wednesday. Like they say, there's a reason it's called body "work". Ugh.About the multiple colors of filler - there's only a few small spots where the base coat of All Metal can be seen, it's silver just like the metal so probably you can't see it in these photos. Both the blue and the pink are Icing filler, I used different color hardeners doing different coats so I could more easily see and track my progress with low spots towards smoothness. On average I did maybe 4 coats of icing on each spot on the roof as I progressed from the rough coat of All Metal to the final pink coat of Icing. The last coat of Icing was taking care of low spots that were probably less than ten thousandths of an inch deep. Doesn't sound like much, but when the high gloss paint is on, ten thousandths means the difference between a reflection off the panel looking like a flat mirror vs. a wavy one. You want to smooth the flat areas until there's no light under the straightedge anywhere. I used the same techniques when I did the rear fenders, and the flat parts of those do reflect like flat mirrors.
Tomorrow I'll get the sides/back panel to 90% if I get time to work on it, and then Monday get them both to 95% and then they should be ready to go off to the body shop for the last 5% and paint.
