OT: Retro Wrangler/Willys Pickup (long)

[jscherb]

As usual, the stuff you are working on looks incredible. Just a couple thoughts...

That ebay rig looked like a small Jeep attached to a trailer. The problem I see (even with the Brute) is that the rear cab corners of the front don't flow with the front corners of the bed. It makes them visually look separate. In the drawings you did, you show square corners...but (for instance) in the ebay ad the corners were rounded. I guess I am saying it looks best for the intersecting corners to match (like your drawing).

Also, the other thing that would stand out to me is the use of black wheel guards (mud guards) on the front and the lack of them on the rear. Again, a small thing that would promote a more unified look in the rig.

Please don't mis-read these comments. I think what you are doing is phenomenal...and envious.

Don't worry about me mis-reading... even if you tell me it is crap, as long as you explain what you think I've done wrong, it's fine... I really appreciate the input.

I'm not sure what you mean about square corners - are you saying the model doesn't match the drawing? Can you explain a little more?

I have been considering putting the flares on the rear fenders also, but I've never seen stepside fenders with flares. I was thinking that would look more strange than flares on the front and not on the back. Still mulling it...

 

[twmattox]

I don't know how to explain the rear corner thing. Just that the drawings you did look good (even the eBay one in that area) but when you look at the eBay rig, it looks rounded and spaced wrong. Makes it look like someone took my 4X8 trailer and bolted it to the back of a small Jeep.

My point on the flares is that different front fenders may look better (possibly tube or flat style). It would eliminate the flares and tie the look more closely together....

 

[jscherb]

I don't know how to explain the rear corner thing. Just that the drawings you did look good (even the eBay one in that area) but when you look at the eBay rig, it looks rounded and spaced wrong. Makes it look like someone took my 4X8 trailer and bolted it to the back of a small Jeep.

My point on the flares is that different front fenders may look better (possibly tube or flat style). It would eliminate the flares and tie the look more closely together....

What about the curve on this Willys? Is there something different about what I'm designing that makes it look worse or better than this?

As for the fenders/flares, I hear you... maybe what I'll do is build the fenders as shown on the model, they're fairly easy to fabricate using some trailer fenders as a starting point, and if they end up not looking right, I can fab some new ones that would have the proper contour for the flares and replace the first set. At least with the ones derived from the trailer fenders I will be able to get the Jeep up and running quickly, fenders to match the flares would take more time to fab.

Jeff

 

[jscherb]

Finished up work on the World Cab hardtop for the model. What this represents is using the top panel from my CJ-7 World Cab and shortening it to be pickup-cab length, and using the rear panel from my CJ-10a Flightline Tug cab and lengthing the side panels to fit the Brute tub.

It is starting to look like a cross between a Wrangler, an old Willys, and maybe even a bit of M-715 thrown in. This is the look I've been going for... what do you think?

Still to come will be some full hard doors from a CJ-7 kit I bought on eBay (hasn't arrived yet), and the spare mounted on the side of the bed.

Jeff

 

[jscherb]

...

My point on the flares is that different front fenders may look better (possibly tube or flat style). It would eliminate the flares and tie the look more closely together....

I think I just figured out the problem of front flares/no rear flares... it isn't that there are flares on the front, it is that the front flares are black and the rear fenders will be painted body color. I think if I paint the front flares body color, everything will be tied in. When I paint the model red, I'll paint the front flares too and we'll see.

Jeff

 

[Truck]

I think I just figured out the problem of front flares/no rear flares... it isn't that there are flares on the front, it is that the front flares are black and the rear fenders will be painted body color. I think if I paint the front flares body color, everything will be tied in. When I paint the model red, I'll paint the front flares too and we'll see.

Jeff

Just reading this thread and was going to say the same thing. I think if you paint the flares the body color you will be fine. Also if you use something other then Bushwacker style flares and use some smooth ones it will also tie together better.

Truck

 

[twmattox]

I agree...the painted flares look much much better. Regarding the body corners. Yours look fine in the drawing and the model you created. The eBay one, however, looked too rounded. Possibly the bed was separated too far as well. Not sure what it is, but yours looks much better.

 

[sanderson9]

I think I just figured out the problem of front flares/no rear flares... it isn't that there are flares on the front, it is that the front flares are black and the rear fenders will be painted body color. I think if I paint the front flares body color, everything will be tied in. When I paint the model red, I'll paint the front flares too and we'll see.

Jeff

IMHO, The Bushwacker fenders, or any late model Jeep fenders / flares on the front are not going to match with the old-style flat-fenders in the rear. The picture of that Willy's on the last page shows the flat-fender fronts, which match well with the back. One problem of the E-bay one was that the front looked like a YJ, and the back looked like an old truck bed. Something to tie in the two would help. I've seen a lot of front flat-fenders on newer Jeeps (TJs), so I know they're available as an aftermarket item. Just a thought.
Also, It's hard to tell from the Model or the Scaled Drawings, but keeping the wheelwell / fenders at the same height will probably help with consistency from front to back.
What about painting the inside of the rear wheel wells black, to look more like the inside of the front wells?

Your work is amazing - keep it up.

 

[jscherb]

IMHO, The Bushwacker fenders, or any late model Jeep fenders / flares on the front are not going to match with the old-style flat-fenders in the rear. The picture of that Willy's on the last page shows the flat-fender fronts, which match well with the back. One problem of the E-bay one was that the front looked like a YJ, and the back looked like an old truck bed. Something to tie in the two would help. I've seen a lot of front flat-fenders on newer Jeeps (TJs), so I know they're available as an aftermarket item. Just a thought.
Also, It's hard to tell from the Model or the Scaled Drawings, but keeping the wheelwell / fenders at the same height will probably help with consistency from front to back.
What about painting the inside of the rear wheel wells black, to look more like the inside of the front wells?

Your work is amazing - keep it up.

Thanks!

The model has Bushwacker flares because that's what the model came with, but I plan to use the normal smooth flares. I think when painted they'll match the rear fenders better. And I agree, they look better mounted at the same height, I've tried to do that on the model but maybe it is hard to tell in the small photos. I've also modified the rear fenders on the model (no picture yet) to be a little thinner to match the front flares better.

That's a good idea painting the inside of the rear fenders black, probably will do that.

Maybe I'll scrachbuild some smooth flares for the model so I can ditch the Bushwackers and we'll get a better idea of the final product.

Jeff

 

[bigwalton]

Maybe I'll scrachbuild some smooth flares for the model so I can ditch the Bushwackers and we'll get a better idea of the final product.

Jeff, just bondo the recesses in the flares you have and paint them black as a first step. You can always chop them off and make better ones. A lot less work and that will fix 95% of the visual issue.

I personally think that painted TJ flares just don't look right. I'm of the opinion to leave them black or to flatfender the front. There's some nice looking flatfender kits out there IMHO or I'm sure you'd do a great job on some of your own with a specific look that you want.

 

[bigwalton]

Oh, I think that's a pretty great job on the top too BTW, nice work!

 

[jscherb]

Oh, I think that's a pretty great job on the top too BTW, nice work!

Thanks!

BTW, a few people have questioned the length of the design, some thinking it is too long, today I took a quick photo of the model sitting next to a same-scale model of a 1941 stepside pickup. it is basically the same length as the older pickup and pretty much the same proportions. Yes it is long compared to the length-challenged little Wrangler (we can say that as Scrambler owners :-), but compared to the 40's stepsides that provide the inspiration for this project, it's right on target I think...

 

[bigwalton]

Not a chance that it's too long... I really think you've hit a great size/proportion (now I just have to talk you into that size tire )

 

[Jeepskate]

Impressive as always.

 

[jscherb]

Not a chance that it's too long... I really think you've hit a great size/proportion (now I just have to talk you into that size tire )

Eric,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to go bigger than 32" on an Unlimited, don't you need to get into big bucks lifts, pitman arm replacement, suspension geometry and bump steer concerns, etc.?

I'm doing this project as a street DD and don't want to alter the nice road manners of the 06 LJ, so I'm concerned about that as well.

To fit 32's I think all I need to do is a budget lift (spring spacers) and not worry about steering geometry.

Please educate me if I'm wrong.
Jeff

 

[bigwalton]

To be honest, I'm not really sure. I haven't done squat for research on lifting the LJ because it's years off at this point. I read the articles in JP, but just for fun, so I don't really pay attention to the specifics.

You're very likely right if you've looked into it at all. The only two things I know is that there are some really great riding long arm lifts out there and that I'll probably go with the AEV Highline kit that will fit 37s with a budget boost and some trimming in the rear That's not based on anything other than the sheer coolness of such big tires on such little lift. No real research on my part...

 

[donaghy]

Great progress

Jeff,

I've been watching this for a while but haven't had time to respond or give my .02 in. So, here it goes.

Great work jeff and its really cool to watch this come from a idea to a reality. I know a lot of us are living vicariously through you and this project.

A friend of mine that is local and I have plans to do this "sometime soon" to a junked out TJ we bought together. And our direction is pretty similiar to this as well in that we wanted either a flatbed type or some other type of stepside bed. We would use one of my GR8TOPS half hardtops and just make the rear cab enclosure ourselves.

From looking at the pictures and the bed you have picked out Jeff, I would probably fab some fenders both front and back for 2 reasons.

a. try to make somewhat matching angles on the angle down on the rear part of the front fenders to whatever angles you put on front and back of the rear fenders. The width of the fenders on the bed will probably be wider than front "tube/custom" fenders but from a side view you could make them look like they belong. I don't know if this is true on a willys pickup but if you look at it from the side, the fenders front visually match fairly well with the fenders on the bed.

b. by custom making the fenders you can address your tire size and lift issues. If you custom make them you can make the openings on both front and backs as big as you want thereby, possibly getting away with a much larger than stock size tire without little to no suspension lift. You can raise the tire opening both upwards where it opens on the front fenders and raising the fender mounting on the bed up, so you can allow 32 or 33" tires with possibly just the 2" budget coil boosters. Essentially the same effect as buying that AEV highline fenders and hood. Wouldn't suggest moding your hood unless you wanted to get into all the geometry rework on mounting fenders etc.

For a TJ/LJ 32" tires would probably rub on the control arms at full chock with no lift. even with 2" spacers they will probably still rub and they would rub if they were tucked up in the wheel well at full suspension flex. A easy way around the rub on the control arms is wheel spacers if you wanted to stick with stock rims and stock rim width.

Just my opinions ...

great work so far though and keep us updated on progress.. proportions on the model look dead on to me.


I have a different Toy rubicon that actually had a plastic hardtop on it as well. I have no idea what scale it is though. did I miss the reading.. how/what did you use to fab up the worldcab hardtop?

matt

 

[CBRogers]

I have an 01' TJ with a HD 2.5" OME lift and I am currently running the 33x10.50" BFG M/T's and get a slight bit of rub on the front control arms at full lock.

The thinner 10.50's actually tuck nicely into the fender wells.

So there is another option for you on lift and tires.


With a Nth degree tummy tucker and rear CV i have a lot of clearence under the jeep without too much lift.

Carl

 

[jscherb]

Jeff,

I've been watching this for a while but haven't had time to respond or give my .02 in. So, here it goes.

Great work jeff and its really cool to watch this come from a idea to a reality. I know a lot of us are living vicariously through you and this project.

A friend of mine that is local and I have plans to do this "sometime soon" to a junked out TJ we bought together. And our direction is pretty similiar to this as well in that we wanted either a flatbed type or some other type of stepside bed. We would use one of my GR8TOPS half hardtops and just make the rear cab enclosure ourselves.

From looking at the pictures and the bed you have picked out Jeff, I would probably fab some fenders both front and back for 2 reasons.

<... some stuff deleted to keep the thread short ... >

Just my opinions ...

great work so far though and keep us updated on progress.. proportions on the model look dead on to me.


I have a different Toy rubicon that actually had a plastic hardtop on it as well. I have no idea what scale it is though. did I miss the reading.. how/what did you use to fab up the worldcab hardtop?

matt

Matt,
Thanks for the ideas, good stuff to think about. I'm not really keen on the idea of modifying the front fenders, I think I'll build it with stock fenders and paint the flares and if it doesn't look right I can always redo it.

I'm thinking of doing a 2" budget lift on the LJ in the next few weeks, I can see how that works out and go from there, that way I'll know more before I start the main project.

The model hardtop wasn't too tough, the hardest part was the grooved top panel. It is made of 1/4" fiberglass sheet salvaged from a bathroom remodel, it was the shower surround. This is a particularly dense fiberglass that cuts, sands, files and mills really well, I haven't seen anything like it in the home centers in recent years, it is almost like Corian.

Anyway, I clamped a piece for the top panel in my drill press, which has a compound cross-slide table, I use it for light milling. I milled the slant on it, and then I used a 1/4" bit to mill the grooves. Then the rounded edges were shaped with sandpaper. I then glued it to a piece of .030 styrene to simulate the rain gutter.

The sides and rear panel are .030 styrene. The vertical corners are again 1/4" fiberglass, I milled a small rabbett in two sides of a 1/4" square piece to receive the styrene sides. Once the sides and corners were glued up (cyanoacrylate), I filed the corners round.

Probably way more detail than you ever wanted on building model hardtops :-)

I've done tons of design work on lengthening the Wrangler frame, when you get to planning your project let me know if you need any of my learnings...

Jeff

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

The model hardtop wasn't too tough, the hardest part was the grooved top panel. It is made of 1/4" fiberglass sheet salvaged from a bathroom remodel, it was the shower surround. This is a particularly dense fiberglass that cuts, sands, files and mills really well, I haven't seen anything like it in the home centers in recent years, it is almost like Corian.

Anyway, I clamped a piece for the top panel in my drill press, which has a compound cross-slide table, I use it for light milling. I milled the slant on it, and then I used a 1/4" bit to mill the grooves. Then the rounded edges were shaped with sandpaper. I then glued it to a piece of .030 styrene to simulate the rain gutter.

The sides and rear panel are .030 styrene. The vertical corners are again 1/4" fiberglass, I milled a small rabbett in two sides of a 1/4" square piece to receive the styrene sides. Once the sides and corners were glued up (cyanoacrylate), I filed the corners round.

Probably way more detail than you ever wanted on building model hardtops :-)

I've done tons of design work on lengthening the Wrangler frame, when you get to planning your project let me know if you need any of my learnings...

Jeff

You're soooooo anal-retentive. I like that in you. The only additional input I have with the design is that the bed sides look a little high relative to the cab side height. Overall, it looks great, and your fabwork with the model is very high-quality, too. Keep the updates coming.

Craig