OT: Retro Wrangler/Willys Pickup (long)

[Randyzzz]

Hey look what came in the mail today...

That's Cool!

Looks great with the roof cut to size. Can't wait to see it in one piece!

 

[bigwalton]

Looks great with the roof cut to size. Can't wait to see it in one piece!

Ditto that.

And congrats on the pickup title

 

[trust]

Dear agog,

For a hardtop, I really like the bolt type latches. The flip latches aren't adjustable, and because of the way they work they go tight while you're flipping them and then loosen up a bit in the latched position, so you don't really have the control over the final tightness like you do with the bolt ones. I don't think Bestop sells them separately; I bought the complete header on eBay, I think it was about $20.

I've been driving the pickup with the soft top for quite a while now and it has the same size b-pillars - blind spots don't seem too bad. I did toy with the idea of small side windows while I was doing the design but I couldn't come up with anything that I thought looked right.

And I'm also always wondering about cans on the side. I don't have any so I can't try it but someday if I come across a cheap can and bracket to try maybe I will.

gotcha on the catches Jeff, that's what I have been using on my scrambler half hard top and one corner or the other is always a bit loose. I was looking for some adjustable ones but as you describe, they got extra tight and then loose. I thought the ones you are using did that as well, apparently not huh? Are the bolt type simply a bolt between loops or something? My CJ5 ran an M38A1 arctic aluminum top, it used J bolts around the tub and simple plates along the windshield, each plate was one bolt into teh top and one into the windshield frame.

I continued thinking about the b pillar windows after I posted, not sure I would want to do that either upon further reflection, plus a custom window would be a problem I should think.

I just looked at a '52 Willys PU a week or two ago (I wish I had the money, the skills and the space) it was an all original runner with a water pipebed rail, corner guard to the bumper in the back and water pipe grill guard up front. Of course the twin cans on the bed sides behind the wheels, I completely fit the look of the truck. I'm not sure if would with yours though, way to nice, I think for that look to be successful the base vehicle needs a more used look, sort of rat rod vs show rod if that makes sense. I wish I had had the smarts to take pics of the willys, next time I go by and I have a camera I will.

 

[jscherb]

gotcha on the catches Jeff ... Are the bolt type simply a bolt between loops or something?

I continued thinking about the b pillar windows after I posted...

Trust,

Another thing about the b pillars I forgot to mention, side windows wouldn't do much good anyways because the roll bar would prevent you seeing out of them, the roll bar covers up pretty much the whole area where a window might be.

Here's a photo of the latches for you, it's at a crazy upside down angle but I think it will help you understand them... the part on the right bolts to the hardtop header. The part in my hand has a bolt threaded into it that goes through the hole in the other part, and a hook down by my two fingers. The hook goes in the latch hole in the TJ windshield, and the bolt pulls the two parts together, tightening the top down onto the top of the windshield.

It's a very simple design and works well. It could be adapted to hold Scrambler hard tops if you cut the slots in the windshield - but if you did cut holes I'd reinforce them with a slotted plate of maybe 1/8" steel.

I see the headers used all the time on eBay for $20-$30 (list price at Quadratec is only $30), I'm sure I paid less than $30 for the two I bought for this project. (the first one I bought had the flip-type latches but I didn't use them) At the right price it would be worth buying the whole thing to get the latches to upgrade a Scrambler hardtop I think.

 

[bigwalton]

Could you see that thing working on the front edge of a World Cab too?

 

[trust]

thanks Jeff, I understand now, seems like it should work if you could get the header to stay attached to the fiberglass and could do the slots in the windshield frame, I will hve to see if I can pick one up as the bail type latches I have been using are not cutting it

Thanks Jeff! yet another thing to try and find!

 

[jscherb]

Could you see that thing working on the front edge of a World Cab too?

Probably, although they really are designed for when the header on the top is pretty much flush with the surface of the windshield frame - in this photo of the World Cab on my Scrambler you may be able to see the windshield surface is a bit forward of the top header instead of flush. You'd probably have to make a 3/8" or so spacer to put under the bracket on the top to make it flush with the windshield frame. Had I known about these latches when I made the ones in the picture for my Scrambler, I probably would have tried them, but as it turned out, the latches I made work great.

 

[jscherb]

Not much time to work on the top today... but I did have time to make a fixture to hold the top on the workbench while I work on it. This fixture will ensure the top is flat and square and the sides don't bow out as I weld the parts together. I'm sure I couldn't build the top accurately if I was just welding it on the workshop floor. The fixture also provides for supports to hold the crown of the top at the right height and these will also provide support for grinding and sanding so I don't inadvertantly dish in the top while working on it.

Second photo shows the cut off rear section sitting on top of the front section. You can see I have about 18" extra to play with; haven't decided exactly where I'm going to make the final cuts to join the panels yet, but perhaps close to the middle of the top. I saved a rib from the inside of the top when I cut it in half and I'm thinking if I join these panels in the middle and reinstall the rib I'll have a lot of strength.

 

[jscherb]

Some good progress on the top today.

Top left, you can see how handy the fixture is; I've got a chain that I hook to a beam in the roof of my workshop to hold the whole thing up so I can work on the bottom of it. In the first two shots I'm working on attaching the roof rib - on the top right you can see a close up of the rib in place, I had to make an extension bracket because I'm using the rib at a higher place on the top than stock. Right now it's held in with a pop rivet and cleco clamps, that's so I can remove it to work on the joint in the roof panel, but it will be welded in when I'm done welding the roof panels together. It will also be bonded to the roof panel with structural adhesive.

I've got the two roof panels cut to size, you can see that in the bottom two photos. In the last photo you can also see the third brake light/bed light I plan to use (it isn't in its final position).

I decided to work on the panels before stripping the paint because I thought I might bend them while stripping in their unsupported state. Once everything's welded together I'll strip the paint.

Once I get the two roof panels welded together, I'll decide how much of a "wedge" look I want on the angle of the top. Probably I'll gently curve the back quarter of the roof down a bit to be more level, but won't know until I play with it.

Plan to do some welding tomorrow to get the parts together.

 

[Totenkopf]

That top's going to be cool. It reminds me of this old CJ-6 top.

 

[jscherb]

Good progress welding the top panel together today. Got the two halves of the top panel welded together. Also curved the rear half of the top down to almost level instead of continuing the slope, didn't want to top panel to have the total wedge look. With the rear curved down it is a nice match for the CJ-8 World Cab, which does the same thing. Also started on the rear filler piece but haven't welded it in yet.

Tomorrow I'll weld in the rear panel, make and weld in the side panels, and maybe make the curves for the rear corners. I'll also put it on the truck and get some photos.

 

[jscherb]

I got all the fabrication and preliminary welding done on the top panel today, so I was able to test it out on the truck. Now on to the tedium of finish welding and grinding the seams, there's about 18 feet of seam to do

 

[bigwalton]

I think you nailed the taper on the back portion! That just looks HOT!

Any more thoughts on leaving it bolt-on or welding it in? If you weld it all together, will you smooth in the corner filler?

 

[jscherb]

I think you nailed the taper on the back portion! That just looks HOT!

Any more thoughts on leaving it bolt-on or welding it in? If you weld it all together, will you smooth in the corner filler?

Well the first thing I have to do is build up the top edge of the CJ-10 hardtop section by 1/2"; it's a bit too low for this application. In the photos I posted today I've got a 1/2" wood spacer in there to make the roof panel level and the window frame reveal equal from front to back.

After that, I have to extend the mounting flange on the roof panel because the CJ-7/8 World Cab roofs mount differently than the CJ-10 roof - the CJ-10 flange is perfectly horizontal and wide but the CJ7/8 ones are horizontal for a bit then angle up and they're narrow.

Then I have to make the top door jamb, I don't think I'll use the sheet metal World Cab jambs. Probably for this one I'll use 3/4" steel tubing, and I'll bend it to also be the beginning of the corner filler.

Somewhere in all that process I'll decide whether the roof will still screw into the side/back panel or if I'll weld it. I think because of the way I'm going to make all of the above I'll still have either option available to me.

Oh and due to the fact that I extended the CJ-10 side panels before I had the truck completed, they are a teensy bit long. Not so long that they can't be used as is, but to be perfect they'd be 3/16" shorter. This has to do with how the door window frames fit the CJ-10 jambs, which is something I couldn't test on the mockup in my workshop. I lengthened them by matching the lines of the door opening in the tub with the jamb on the hardtop, and it's perfectly usable the way I did it, they seal properly and all, but if I am shooting for perfection I should take about 3/16 out of the sides. Oh well, the risks of fabricating things beforehand. 3/16" isn't much especially since it does fit ok as it is, but you know me, I'm going to take that 3/16" out of the sides to make it perfect

In either case, I will probably try making a smoother panel for the corner filler.

But as you can see there's lots of work before I get to that, I'll bet this is more answer than you expected! I'll keep you posted of course...

 

[bigwalton]

I'll bet this is more answer than you expected!

Nah, not from you, not anymore. It's just the kind of thing I expected

Can't wait to see it all come together.

 

[Randyzzz]

Oh Yeah! That looks good

 

[Truck]

Eric is right. The taper of the top is just right. Very well done.

Truck

 

[jscherb]

Eric is right. The taper of the top is just right. Very well done.

Truck

Thanks guys! The target I wanted to hit was "what if the factory built a World Cab pickup top starting with the dies for the CJ-7/CJ-8 World Cabs". That's why you've seen several photos of it parked next to the CJ8 - checking the profile to make sure it's right. I'm really happy with the results.

 

[MrBeep]

I'll add my compliments again. You hit it dead on!

 

[jscherb]

Between yesterday and this morning I got all the welding and most of the grinding done on the roof panel. The curves and corners all worked out nice and smooth, won't take more than a skim coat of filler to finish them off.

Next step is to weld/glue the roof rib inside - I've left that removable until now so I could work on the inside of the main seam. Then I need to strip the paint so I can begin the filler/finishing process.